What is the intended distance

[diego-ted]

The sigma was meant to shoot at? Went to a new range that was only set up for 25 yard shooting. It might as been a football field!! I kept most of the rounds on the board but far from center. At 25 yards I was aiming about 20" above center to keep it on the board.

Diego

[DWinter]

I wouldn't say it was "set up" for any certain distance but since most times a handgun is used in anger is around 10 yards or less, That's the range I like to know each hangun I shoot, and be able to keep a full clip or 5 or 6 round cylinder inside a 2" circle. I figure if I can do that consistently under different stances, one knee, laying, single hand or both hands, (still can't do it left hand only), and at a reasonably rapid fire rate when drawn from a pocket, belt or holster, I'll at least get close enought to scare off a bad guy.

[spricks]

I'm thinkin practice, practice, practice... One can shoot as far as they can control their shot. Some folks can never shoot well, while others will amaze you with their ability to shoot the same gun. Keep shootin with a learnin thought in mind.
spricks

[OKFC05]

Last time I was shooting a Sigma .40 at the range, a newie (who didn't know I'm the IDPA match director) was telling me how horribly inaccurate a Sigma is.

We walked down to the 50 yard bay, and after I sat down and rested my arms over my knees, I shot down the pepper poppers 50 yards away. Unless something is wrong with it, a Sigma is plenty accurate to hit an 8" circle at 50 yards. Course, you have to hold it still until it fires. Front sight, press; front sight, press.

Shot an M&P 9 Pro in the club match today: SWEET!

[FirebirdV8]

Most modern guns are reliable and combat accurate. However, with the different types of trigger systems, trigger weights, and sights out there not all shooters are accurate with all guns without practice. The trigger pull on a sigma is heavier than most semi-autos out there. This extra weight will force you to stick to the basics of shooting to be accurate.
A perfect example of this is that I just got my first scoped bolt action rifle last week. I am not used to the trigger on a bolt action or using a scope. Needless to say my groups can't reallly be called groups. My rifle is not the faulty equipment, but me as the shooter needs to go in for some repairs. Basically, if your sigma fires and cycles reliably, practice and you will find what you need to do to obtain the pistols natural combat accuracy.

["JJ"]

I have reached out to 30yrds several times with my 9ve!
A water jug offers a pretty good target at that distance.

I think it is just what ever distance you practice at.
If there was a scope (sited in correctly) on your sigma you could probably get out past 50yrds or so.

[.357 mag]

I have a 4 inch spinner target that I can hit everytime from 0-15 yards. 15-25 yards I'm about 50%. 30 yards, about 1 of 5. But all shots are between the stakes (8 inches apart.)

[DWinter]

Originally Posted by spricks

I'm thinkin practice, practice, practice... One can shoot as far as they can control their shot. Some folks can never shoot well, while others will amaze you with their ability to shoot the same gun. Keep shootin with a learnin thought in mind.
spricks

Exactly, as I look at the thread, there is one reaccurring theme. Shoot often. Then shoot some more. Some folks have natural talent, the other 99.999% of us have to practice to keep our skills up.

[MitchellB]

In order to qualify for my CHP I had to put 50 rounds in the target at 7 yards at a B-27 full size silhouette. 40 or more rounds are required to be in the 7 ring or better. I was told 7 yards (21 ft.) was considered the standard maximun distance for Self Defense. Most encounters are claimed to happen at that distance or less (usually less). I think they also considered if you shoot anyone further away than 7 yards, the lawyers are gonna want to know why you did not flee the scene to avoid using deadly force. My SW9VE is accurate a lot farther out than my old eyes are capable of seeing.

[writerinmo]

My CCW class was also required to fire at the B-27 target at a distance of 7 yards. I generally shoot at the target we have set up on my buddy's range at 15 yards, but will also at some point send some rounds downrange at his rifle targets at 25, 50 and 100 meters. I can still hit within a ten inch circle at 25 and am getting better the more I shoot my 40VE, the 50 is about 50% and at 100 I at least hit the 2'x2' plywood board, about all I ask for shooting standing unsupported.

[diego-ted]

I see where the practice makes perfect. So at say 25 yards are you all shooting well above the Center of target base on the sights?

Diego

[TOF]

I don't have a Sigma but do have M&P's. They all impact 1 to 2 inches high at 15 yards. Remington ballistic data indicates a 230 Grain 45 bullet starting at 835 FPS will drop around 6 inches at 100 yards. That is about as slow as defensive pistol loads go so all others should have less drop.

At 25 yards aim for the spot you want to impact and only raise an inch or 2 at 50.

It all boils down to trigger control and follow through. If the barrel dips before the bullet exits you will hit low. Guaranteed.

[Dragon88]

Originally Posted by diego-ted

So at say 25 yards are you all shooting well above the Center of target base on the sights?

No. What load are you shooting? How are you aligning the sights?

[diego-ted]

Originally Posted by Dragon88

No. What load are you shooting? How are you aligning the sights?

I am shooting walmart feds. I line the 3 dots so they are even across the top? OOO if that makes sence.


Diego

[.357 mag]

Originally Posted by diego-ted

I am shooting walmart feds. I line the 3 dots so they are even across the top? OOO if that makes sence.


Diego

Are you covering your target like this ----000---

___ Or like this
000

Next we are all drawing stick figures

[setxn]

This is getting to be fun,I'm waiting on the next triple-naught target thingy.

[jimmyj]

Many years ago Smith and Wesson guaranteed their service revolvers to group within three inches of POA at 25 yards.

[diego-ted]

Originally Posted by .357 mag

Are you covering your target like this ----000---

___ Or like this
000

Next we are all drawing stick figures

At first like the first example but I was shooting real low maybe 5 foot in front of the target, then I just started shooting about 16" above center and was at least on the 2X3 board?

Diego

[TOF]

You are undoubtedly dropping the front of the barrel a bunch before the bullet exits the barrel. You need to obtain some snap caps and practice trigger manipulation without bullets in the gun. The sights have to be pointing at the same point of the target after the sear releases as before.

A bit of instruction at a shooting range will work wonders for you.

Good luck

["JJ"]

I don't know much about your abilities or techniques but,
if at 25 yrds I was hitting 5 ft in front of the target I might look into a problem with the sights.
Make sure they are flush to the slide.
There have been cases where the melted plastic disturbs the sight line.

At a shorter distance it would still give a problem if it were the sights.
Can you put a nice group on target at 12yrds?

As far as aiming above POI at 25yrds?
Not quite! If there is any drop at 25yrds (with factory loads), it is fractions of an inch that is not noticeable in this situation.

[.357 mag]

Originally Posted by JJ";135558756]I don't know much about your abilities or techniques but,
if at 25 yrds I was hitting 5 ft in front of the target I might look into a problem with the sights.
Make sure they are flush to the slide.
There have been cases where the melted plastic disturbs the sight line.

At a shorter distance it would still give a problem if it were the sights.
Can you put a nice group on target at 12yrds?

As far as aiming above POI at 25yrds?
Not quite! If there is any drop at 25yrds ([SIZE="1

with factory loads)[/SIZE], it is fractions of an inch that is not noticeable in this situation.

JJ, your right. Bullet drop doesn't play a factor that much. What pistol shooters have trouble with is the bullet rise. At 7-10 yards, the bullet is still rising. At 25-30 yards the bullet is falling back down to POA.

[diego-ted]

I am a novice shooter with little handgun experience. However with my buddy's gold cup I was grouping 4" @ maybe 25 feet. With my sigma I was grouping about the same at 12'. I do have an artificial right shoulder and cannot hold my arm out straight for very long. I use my left arm/hand to steady the gun hand and my right arm. I might have to retract my arms "bend at the elbow" to gain some control. This was my first time out shooting at 25yards.

Thx for all the tips!
Diego

[KyWstJoe]

5, 7, and 10 yards with most shooting done at 7. I only shoot these distances because my interest is purely self defense and center mass or a head shot. I can't see getting in a gun fight at 50 yards but may be I should increase my practice out to 15 or 20 yards. Can't hurt.

[ChrisKalan]

Curious...for all of you former military. What kind of distances did you all train for?

["JJ"]

I agree with you .357 mag, the rise and fall is not know to a lot of shooters. Depending on the round & distance this could be up to a few inches! But I think this is something all together different.

I was shooting real low
maybe 5 foot in front of the target

The OP stated later the you had a bad or weak shoulder. Try this distance at the begining of a shooting session to eliminate fatigue. If the problem returns, try another gun to rule out the "human" factor. If it happens with just this gun all the time I would contact S&W. Just my opinion! If is just your technique, then you can address it as well. Best of luck! Keep us updated!

[blastfact]

POA from point blank to 25 yards is good on my sights, barrel and ammo. While my Sigma 9VE had grit and a awful over all trigger. The magic is in the chamber and barrel. Of which both of mine are great! The trigger can be improved. The barrel was and is near perfect! I wish I could get a good picture. My Sigma barrel is better than my M&P .45, FS. Per dollar spent the Sigma is the best pistol I have ever purchased. It has impressed everybody that has shot it!

To the OP I raise less than you do at 75 yard balloon popping. I have found it is sensitive to bullet weight. 124gr. bullet weight is its domain. Shoots on the high side with 115's, dead on with 124's and on the low side with 147's. All involve on slight sighting adjustment's in elevaton.

A Sigma will shoot!!!!

[diego-ted]

This particular range would not allow me to rest on the bench to minimize shake. I think this would tell me if the problem is with my technique. In the near future, I will go to a different range that will allow this. As I said, once I adjusted my aim to 15" or so above center of target I was hitting the board just did not have consistent grouping.

thx Diego

[blastfact]

Well ,,,,, a range that won't let you bench shoot is a range that does not need you money!!!!! Dump them and move on. With the said. Bench shooting is not the began to end all.

If you are shooting straight and elevation is the issue over all. Then S&W should fix it within reason,,, Period!!!!

I have owned three each Sigmas and sold two of the three. Fact is they all shot POA. And if it was not POA it was the shooter and not the firearm, truth be told.

Lets put it this way. My Sigma 9VE is my FS 9mm of choice.. Not a SD or M&P. It does as it told!

[jimmyj]

.38 Revolver and M1911A1: 15, 25, and 50 yards
M1903, M1903A3, and M1 Garand: 100, 200, 300, and 500 yards
M1 Carbine: 50 and 100 yards
M3A1 .45acp SMG: 15, 25, and 50 yards
12 gauge Pump Shotgun: 15 and 25 yards
BAR M1918: 50, 100, and 300 - slow auto fire / fast auto fire
Browning .30 and .50 cal MG: Aerial Targets at difference ranges
20mm and 40mm: same as .30 & .50 cal MG
5"X38 Deck Gun: crew served firing (ranges don't recall)

Originally Posted by ChrisKalan

Curious...for all of you former military. What kind of distances did you all train for?