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I'm confused........... what is causing the barrel to be locked back? Is the barrel bulged like from firing a squib load leaving a bullet stuck in the barrel and a regular bullet fired on top of it? That would be an ammo/shooter error and not covered by the warranty. S&W's customer service is usually very good even when it takes them a time or two to get things right. We wouldn't expect them to free fix something that clearly wasn't their fault though.

Hi James,

Sorry to hear about your malfunction, and Smith and Wesson customer service. They told you it was the ammo? If thats the case, ask S&W if you should contact the ammo company. I think S&W should fix it free of charge. Call them back and let them know how you feel. Also, let them know you have MANY Smith and Wesson friends. (US) Sounds like the rep you talked to is taking the easy way out.

Person I've dealt with is Joe Marcoux at 1-800-331-0852 Ask him about the ammo and if you should contact the ammo company, AND you feel strongly S&W should fix the problem. Joe seem to be a nice guy. Worth a try.

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Sigma 9mm/XD 9

Do you have either of the bullets that might have been stuck in the barrel, and / or the cases as well? I agree Smith should consider helping you, but more likely it should be the ammo company to pay for your repairs--although it could have been due to a light strike for that matter that Smith should at least look in to for you.
Think of your car warranty and tires--if you read your manual, for tire problems you go direct to the tire manufacturer, not the car maker.
Get hold of Winchester and see what they say, especially if you have saved any part of those 2 rounds

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My 2 cents--and not having been in on the first call you made to them, but I think you're being a little harsh after only one call.
Certainly you need to make another call to them--and either speak to another rep, or the same one, tell them you're not happy with the first decision and give them a chance to make it right.
I run a few company operations with multiple customer service people and anything can happen--from a new person on the phone, to a simple misunderstanding or a few words heard incorrectly. As a boss, I actually appreciate it if someone gives us a second chance if they feel they have a complaint.

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I agree with 7cstevan here...
It certainly sounds like you got off on the wrong foot with the first contact @ S&W... And it also sounds like the CS Rep didn't get much of a chance to have a completely rational conversation to try to discuss options for resolution, as well...

As a Customer Service Manager, myself, I would chalk this one up to an unfortunate experience, and go about it again with an open mind and calm attitude. "Any given day" certainly applies to the customer service world as much as (if not more than) any profession dealing with the public on matters that tend to be unpleasant for the initiator of the conversation.

I'd call'em back, explain that you feel there's a better resolution than what was first offered, and keep the implication of litigation out of the conversation.
Something my father once told me about "honey vs vinegar" applies here...

Good luck with the repair... I haven't had any first-hand experience with the Sigma, but certainly wouldn't base the entire company's product line reputation on an individual incident. These, after all, are machines with moving parts.

Nothing against Winchester, either... But I've heard both good and bad about their product, as well... Some have had horrible experience with it... others say no issues at all with hundreds of rounds down range.

Yes .

Before condemning the pistol , I'd try another brand of ammo maybe CCI or Federal . The Win might be out of spec . As a firearms retailer for 25 yrs , I've seen it . If it still has issues then try warranty . Good luck sir .

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Mitch

Is the pistol inoperable now? What I am hearing is that the pistol is jammed, with the slide back, and cannot be freed up. If that is the case, it seems like Smith and Wesson would accept it and repair it. Maybe the customer service rep did not understand. Did he speak with a Russian accent and call himself Betty?

I'm confused about the malfunction too. If the slide simply locked back, and can be lowered, it could be simple operator error, and that you accidentally bumped the slide stop while firing. If the slide is locked back and cannot be lowered, my guess would be an issue with the recoil spring assembly, or a damaged slide stop. If you could clarify the exact problem, we might be able to help you better.

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Just trying to help out . This is what I do for a living . I can't speak for the others but until we know what's "broke" it's tough to condemn S&W or Winchester .

40 yrs of experience should equate to some sort of diagnosis I would think . He has no idea ?


I would take it to either the store you bought it from and get their view or find someone else local to get an exact diagnosis .

The S&W rep $120 estimate was probably for a new barrel and if he assumed it was bulged (which was a fair diagnosis) then that would be the fault of the ammo and not S&W's responsibility . But since you've observed that it's not bulged then the $120 is in error .

At this point another opinion or sending it to Smith are the 2 options I see .

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Mitch

James, the longer this thread goes on, the more you are going to be blamed for the gun malfunctioning, just saying

In regards to the Winchester ammo, I have had good and bad experience with their ammo. So just because it says Winchester doesn't make it quality. Sorry to hear about the troubles with your Sigma. It sucks to get a lemon, but only alternatives I see is to call them back and give them another chance to make it right, or have it as a very expensive paper-weight. If you don't see anything stuck in the barrel, I wouldn't mention anything about ammo. I would just say that you bought it new back in July and the slide is frozen back on the firearm.

I'm a bit confused by this thread (as opposed to my normal state of confusion). You have a gun that is covered by a product warranty and it is evidently broken. Normally, the approach would be to call Smith, tell them about the problem, and then, ship the gun back to them for evaluation and, possibly, warranty repairs. Now, it's possible that Smith might tell you, after looking at the gun that the problem is not of their making and that, under that circumstance, they won't repair the gun for free. However, I've never heard of a situation where Smith would make that determination over the phone without at least looking at the gun.

So, my question is: did you ask Smith to evaluate the problem? Have you discussed with their service rep. shipping the gun back to them for an examination and possible warranty service?

It may be that you had a communication mixup with whomever you spoke to. My advice is to call them back, describe the problem without attributing a cause to it, and asking them to examine the gun for a possible warranty issue. My guess is that Smith will send you a prepaid shipping label and that you'll be able to ship the gun back to them for free for warranty evaluation and, possibly or likely, repairs at their expense.

Always interesting how some folks are so quick to defend a gun manufacturer without giving good input or a few courses of action besides:

"Look I know you paid for a new gun and its broken and malfunctioned and you spoke with S/W and they said pack sand, but...Dont judge a company based on your limited experience with their product and a customer service rep that might not have known what he was talking about...Call them back and be kind...be gentle..."

We are the end user.

agree with response:
1. call back telling them only that the slide is locked to rear and you dont know whats wrong.
2. Have a shipping label sent and send out gun
3. allow their smith to fix.
4. If you lack faith in the Sigma talk to a rep about a refund or replacement plan.

If I pay good money for something that should defend my life, it should. There are lotsa posts of people having issues these days with brand new pistols. My self included. If I wanted **** I'd buy a Lorcin or a Grendel

Just my 2copper pieces.

1) Plenty of people have put lots of rounds down their Sigma without problems. Your weapon is not the standard, it is an exception.

2) They should fix it and shouldn't have given you the brush off. I'd either guess the service rep wasn't right or perhaps the communication wasn't good between the two of you (not blaming either party, but sometimes two people have a talk and neither hears it right).

I would agree to call back. Just tell them succinctly that you have a recently purchased Sigma with a problem. Tell them exactly what the issue is and then tell them you showed it to a gunsmith who cannot determine the problem and told you to call S&W. Don't say much more, it just confuses the subject.

As far as Winchester ammo goes; it's not bad, but it's not the best. I've found hollow points in a box of FMJ before. If their quality control doesn't notice something that visually obvious, then it's certainly plausible they didn't load a round correctly and overpressured your gun. Which would be on them to pay for.

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"... shall not be infringed."

Since your posted on a public forum I assume you expected to get some kind of response. Those who responded have gone out of their way to try and help you with your problem and just because they don't completely agree with or understand your assessment doesn't mean they are defending customer service. The truth is that you experience with S&W customer service is NOT typical of most other people's experiences and therefore you are getting a lot of questions. It doesn't mean you are wrong, but it also doesn't mean those trying to help you have some ulterior motive. If you want to trash the gun and S&W, by all means go ahead. Just don't expect everybody on the forum to agree with you.

BUT.....
Someone else also said this sort of contradicts its self.
I can only imagine how many times S&W was told this guy is a "qualified smith"!

So now with emotions high, you run call S&W & tell them the same thing.
Like another guy said;
....it is hard to guess what the conversation was like!
If you called up(not saying you did, just an example) yelling about after the third round the slide locked back & can't be released. And how an extreamly qualified guy/gunsmith, who works at the range that could have sold you the ammo, says it definately is not the ammo & it is without a doubt a gun malfuction!!
I can see how things could take a turn down a side street!
Again, not being there for the call we can only turn to what we know about the parties involved! That is simply the companies reputation!
Thousands of post stating how great the company is! This builds the reputation!
If it were like other companies with every other post complaining about thier lack of service, I'm sure everyone would jump in line!

NOW, with that being said I agree that the result, how ever it was arrived at, was not the result that you or the an upstanding company would want!
I think the CS rep was on the defensive. The only thing that they could do is a quick diagnosis which is the same thing that most of the members did here. They assumed that the barrel was buldged & that is was an ammo/operator problem.

I am not a customer service boss & I don't play one on TV!
But here is what I would do:

1) Focus on your goal!
Does it really matter who's fault it is if you get your gun fixed?

2) Call S&W CS back!
I will again quote other post:
Ask them what would be the best course of action to reach you goal! Ask if they can take a look at it a to see if they can make it work again.

The main thing is to get your gun back to a working condition so you are either comfortable with it as a SD gun or so you can sell/trade it off.

I feel bad that you are having trouble with you gun.
I really do hope it all gets worked out to your satisfaction!
Try to keep your wits about you & a cool head!
I promise loosing you cool will not help. Believe me, I tried that path for years!!

Best of luck with the rest of this journey!
Keep us updated!!

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~ "JJ"

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Not enough detail to determine what happened there. At what point in the cycle did the pistol fail to function? Is the slide physically jammed to the rear and immovable without the use of force? Etc., etc.

Long-range diagnosis is a pretty shaky endeavor; particularly with semiautos. Unless you can find a logically minded gunsmith I'd get Smith to authorize shipping it in and let them puzzle it out. They made the gun, and they see them every day.

I think that is definately possible!!
Just not necessary!!

They are many, many, many, many happy S&W customers who either have had no problems with thier gun or who had a problem & was extremely pleased with the service recieved.
Alot of those are personal friends not an avatar & a screen name on a monitor.

Like another guy said, your results are not typical!
WHY? Who knows?

Like everyone has suggested, call back & take a different approach.
Maybe it will work out!!
Best of luck!

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~ "JJ"

James,

Not sure if you already talk to another S&W CS agent, but I suggest you do that. Maybe another agent will hear you out better.

Good Luck.

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Sigma 9mm/XD 9

Hi James,
I have to agree with some of the others. Call Smith back. Tell the customer service representative about the problem but don't overdue the details. Tell the CSR that you would like for them to look at the pistol. Most likely they will send you a label to ship the pistol back. Don't get caught up on the "side bars" of ammo, gunsmith or anything else.
I believe if you do this the outcome will be they will fix the pistol and not charge you.

Good luck,
Howard

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Since you asked, actually in photos 1, 3, and 5 it appears that there might be a ring, but it might just be the lighting. The apparent ring is about where the bulge would jam the slide if there was a ring, but again might be lighting.

If it isn't a ringed barrel, then about the only other possibility I see is (going out on a limb here) the recoil spring or guide is somehow jammed.

Or it could be something else....

Good Morning:
In your photo #3-is that a "Pit" in the upper right of the bore?
Your weapon's problem might be with the recoil spring and guide not being in "Battery".
I would call S&W and request that a shipping label be send to you for them to physically examined the weapon.
If this is un-acceptable to S&W, I would then send a regestered letter to the company president requesting his assitance in the matter.
Do not threaten a law suit- use sugar not vinagar.
Jimmy

I will chime in here on this one. First I do not work for any customer service operations. I also work with the public in a service industry. Now how did you talk to the person at Smith and Wesson? Did you act as though you were pissed at the get go? When did you threaten with a lawsuit? Now how would you feel if you were on the other end of the line? I read all the questions and comments and you have not answered many of the questions asked about your problem. So if you wont answer these questions the how can you say it was not the ammo fault? How can you say it was not Smiths fault? Like another poster said sometimes being nice but firm can get you a lot. I will let you know that if you called me and started raising your voice and threating then you probley would have to call back cause I would have hung up on you. What I would do is go back through this thread answer all the questions on paper check out the gun with different ammo then if you still have a problem call Smith back and be nice when you talk to that person. Just my observation.

I hope you're not talking about me being a "corporate lackey". Just trying to state a course of action to help you get your gun fixed with minimum hassle. As one other stated, part of what intrigued me about the response of the CSR (Cust. Service Rep.) is that a smith with 40 yrs. of experience couldn't diagnose the problem, yet a CSR is expected to do so over the phone? On the other hand, the CSR should have offered to send a call tag to pick it up.
I'd do exactly as others say and request to send it back--leave the diagonosis out of it--just say it is jammed and you want them to find the issue and / or fix it.
I can't say from the pictures on a possible ring in the bbl.--probably because I am "chronologically challenged" and the eyes aren't what they used to be!
Good luck--keep us posted as to how it shakes out.

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Obviously you're not looking for help/advice from the forum members so what are you hoping to accomplish here ?

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Mitch

It's called trolling. It's pretty obvious now.

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Looks like all he wanted to do is bash somebody and not really cure his problem. I have learned that sometimes you have to step back and look at how you treat people. I liked the answers the other members gave him and it will help me out in the long run. So since he deleted all his post I will thank all the people who answered because it helped me think about my toys.

It was nice to see everyone try to help!
Even with a one sided approach from the begining, it seemed everyone was still trying to help without slamming the guy to much!!

Good job guys!
That is why this forum works!!

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~ "JJ"

I smelled him from here. Thats why I stayed out of it.

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The kool-aid Sigma drinker

Well, with all of his deleted messages, what is the short version now?

You can pick up most from the quoted text in the other member's replies .

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Mitch

My opinion the short version is as follows. He called S&W customer service, demanded all kinds of things, Was rude, Customer service gave him the short speech not wanting to get yelled at much more. Threatened with lawsuit Customer not happy with results. Wanted someone to cry with and back him up. Didnt happen here, wouldnt answer questions from knowledgeable people, got mad and deleted post. just my version of what happened. I only read the thread because I figured I might learn something about my 3rd Gen Semi.

I kinda feel like a idiot.
I was defending him a little, but didn't put it in print.

Markcuda,

I see your from Clinton, IL. I live in Mahomet. I hunt at Clinton lake about 3 times a week right now. Small world. Do you know anyone there with the last name of Owens?

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The kool-aid Sigma drinker

No, don't know any Owens, sorry.

Now that this seems to be over.. I will state that Joe Marcoux, is a 34 Year employee of S&W and a Master Gunsmith.. He has a passion for S&W.. He has worked " On the Line" and in the Performance Center.. When he looks at a gun he looks at the markings to see who built it.. When he is not at S&W, he travels the country as a representitive of S&W stopping at dealers during events.. to do Field " Action Jobs" on new S&W's.. ( and a few touch ups on some " Older Ones") I can't wait till he retires to Florida

I am fortunate to claim Joe as a friend as well as his partner in " Crime" Mel.. who has 32 years in..
And there is the base of the customer service reps.. at Smith..

Sal

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SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP

Sal,

Thanks for sharing. I had a question awhile back about my Sigma. Sent an E mail and Joe responded quickly.

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Sigma 9mm/XD 9

I'm confused. Why did James delete all his postings? Did he get the problem figured out?

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Sigma 9mm/XD 9

Unfortunately , I don't think he came here to figure his problem out .

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Mitch

Looks to me like he wasn't getting the support he thought he should get, so he took his ball and went home.

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John 3:16 .

I've just had my first encounter with S&W Customer Service. I ordered a short barrel "kit" for my target barrel Walther PT22. Only part of the kit came. One email later and the remaining parts were in the next day's mail to me. I've got nothing but good to say about the service I received from them.
Cherokee Slim

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NRA,SASS,BOLD#808,Semper Fi