This is my first handgun and thus far I've had no problems with it and am very happy. I have noticed the heavy trigger and was searching around for ways to fix this issue, I found a spring for sale on ebay and have been thinking about trying it out. Has anyone else done this fix and have some valuable information...can this lead to any problems later down the road with my sigma? thanks and I appreciate the help!

Welcome friend!

nay

Enjoy your sigma!

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SD9VE, American perfection!

If you're not having actual problems, there's no NEED to fix it. If you are inclined to tinker and have the ability, there are a few videos on youtube you might look at. Not sure about buying a 'spring' off of ebay, if it's the firing pin spring, don't.

My SW9GVE's trigger feels remarkably similar to the DA triggers I've observed on my N-frame S&Ws - smooth, and a bit on the heavy side. It's not an issue with the N-frame, as I only fire six rounds before I get a break. As you get to the bottom of the seventeen rounds, though, that pull will start to wear on a fellow.

Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the gun, just that seventeen is a lot of pulls on a trigger of this sort. Man up, my friend. That's how the gun was engineered. If you think you know more about how the gun should work than the folks who designed it, by all means futz with it. Me, I'm leaving mine as it came.

The old saying. Don't fix it if it isn't broke.

if you lighten it according to the many mods posted here and otherwise, it will be limited to glock-type carry with trigger completely covered to prevent it from firing when holster or trigger hangs on something or you are a bit slow in getting finger out of way when holstering....it's heavy for a reason...it's about the only gun of its type truly as safe as a modern DA revolver, because it truly has a trigger as heavy as a modern DA revolver.

The old bic pen spring does nothing at all but weaken the reset capability. The ONLY way to lighten the trigger is to replace the striker spring, but you may have light strikes

Consider that S&W has intentionally shut off many parts for the Sigma, so if you lose a spring or screw up the sear, you will have to return the gun to the factory to fix it.

The greatest hazard in buying a used Sigma is that someone has "improved" it until it is no longer reliable, and you can't get sear or striker parts.

Unless you are qualified to work on it and are sure you won't break/lose a part, I'd suggest buying some ammo and going to the range instead.

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Science plus Art

This is not a good question to ask here because many active posters feel that no Sigma should ever be modified in any way. Primarily because they think the gun may become unreliable, cannot be used for defense anymore, legal reasons, etc., etc., etc. All of these are of course opinions and may or may not be true. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with light modifications to a gun or improving the trigger. The 1911 community has been doing it for 100 years. The S&W K Frame and other revo shooters have been doing so for almost as long. The $0.25 Glock trigger job is almost legendary. Apex, Ghost and dozens of other companies have built their businesses on trigger modifications. But for some reason in the world of the Sigma it is utterly taboo.

That's a little obnoxious, as it's not what's going on.

Which involves smoothing surfaces. I pulled my SW9VE down and did this (it didn't need it hardly at all) before I even shot it. Switching out parts, though, is another thing.

Unlike the situation you mention with 1911s and revolvers, there is hardly a thriving industry dedicated to replacement Sigma parts. And, I wonder how many of those "My 1911 isn't working" complaints can be traced to amateur part-switching. And I've certainly watched my share of fools light-strike with their revolvers after switching to the wrong spring weight.

But that's fine if you're just using your 1911 or revolver at the range. The Sigma isn't designed to be a target gun - it's pretty much just a defensive gun. If you want a target gun, I'd assume you would have bought a pistol better suited for that task - you're not going to turn your Chevy pickumup into much of a dragster, no matter how many parts you switch out. But you might well render it unsuitable for its original use by doing so.

As I said supra, if you know more than the engineers, have at it, amigo. Perhaps you do.

I don't.

One man's obnoxious is another man's obvious.

The engineers took the Sigma and ultimately produced the M&P and then the SD9. Does that mean that the engineers have rendered the Sigma obsolete? Nope. My house used to only have 3 bedrooms, now it has 5. I improved on the design and now my house is much more functional. That's what the OP wants for his Sigma. The lack of aftermarket for the Sigma only strengthens the argument for modification. Regardless of what the gun was designed to do you can create a balance between skill and mechanical performance. My M&P had a good trigger from the factory, now it has an awesome trigger thanks to Apex.

SW9VE: 2,000+ rounds post trigger job (polished internals and spring removal). 0 malfunctions. Smooth 5lb trigger pull.

SW9E: 3,000+ rounds post trigger job (polished internals and spring removal). 0 malfunctions. Smooth 5lb trigger pull.

There seems to be a myth out there that you can improve the trigger by replacing the spring with a lighter one or even cutting it down as well as removing the pig-tail spring. All of these will in NO WAY improve the feel or weight of the trigger. This will only result in unreliable trigger reset. A simple way to prove this to be true is to remove the slide and pull the trigger.

The weight you feel is from the striker, as I mentioned before you could replace the striker spring but you may get light strikes. The only way to improve the feel would be to do a fluff n buff or what is also know as the famous .25 trigger job. Even this can prove very harmful if you are not very careful.

The Sigma trigger feels the way it does because it was designed as DAO no matter what you do this fact will remain. Honestly the trigger feels great breaks clean and constantly. The Sigma will make you a better shooter as it teaches you proper trigger control.

I agree totally the gun was designed to be as safe as a modern DA revolver against the gun firing inadvertantly, which is why I BOUGHT the thing in the first place, free to carry it just as i would a revolver, holster or not, my option, and to reduce the pull WILL make the gun less safe for such carry, and more likely to experience the accidents common to most other guns of this type.

It seems, though, that it is incorrect to state the only way pull can be lightened is by lightening the striker. I seriously doubt there is a mass-hallucination going on when people remove springs from sear assy and report VASTLY lighter pulls as you are reducing the TOTAL pull of sear assy PLUS striker, and mechanical advantage of the trigger shrinks due to camming action in sear assy the further it is compressed and stack-up occurs..... Also, the trigger return spring never gets mentioned as a way of reducing pull....although no argument from me that it can mess with reset speed, which it surely will to one degree or another, whether noticed by shooter or not....a good example of the reset thing would be world-class shooters leaving heavier springs installed for fastest reset as they are fast enough they NEED that quickest possible reset.

If you remove or lighten any of the springs in the sear assembly you are still left with the heavy striker spring. If you have 2 springs which are mechanically linked (one is 2lbs the other is 10lbs) and remove or lighten the smaller spring you are still left with the weight of the heavier spring.

Not to call anyone a liar, but I think the claims of a lighter trigger after removing the pig-tail spring and/or removing or replacing one of the two springs in the sear assembly is a bit of an exaggeration to justify the time spent.

It is simple not possible to reduce the weight of the trigger as some have stated without modifying the striker spring. I guess you could file away at the sear to make it break early but that would only hurt the reliability.

It just worries me that so many are modifying their Sigma without truly knowing what they are doing. A Youtube search will show this to be true.

Not trying to argue I just cant understand why someone would put a spring from a pen or a mechanical pencil in their firearm

My understanding of the pen spring thing is that they are removing the pigtail, which doesn't do much by itself as for weight reduction, then removing the inner spring on the strut, and installing the pen spring as a filler so the larger OD heavy spring doesn't kink, while keeping reliable reset....the gun can function for many by removing the pigtail and the large outer strut spring, but enough folk had problems with reset that the stiffer outer spring was left in place with the pen spring filler installed...

Or any permutation you can think of with these....which is fine for a range gun, but begging a gun firing when not planned otherwise, as far as a carry gun...most folk doing these mods don't know of the problems Glock-type guns have in firing unplanned...they don't know the Glock manual of arms includes having a rigid holster which completely shrouds the trigger...and the S&W Sigma manual doesn't have such a precaution as the design does not require such....but modify the gun, and it surely does, but they do not know it...kids playing with matches

I completely disagree, my 'modded' trigger is quite a bit lighter and smoother. My future son in law just bought the same gun, I checked 'em back to back, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE! As has been previously reported, I have shot quite a few rounds through the gun, just spent a weekend at a tactical training class, close to 600 rounds, single, double and triple taps, full mag to empty rapid fire, reload, do it again, NO PROBLEMS! "A man of experience is never at the mercy of a man of theory"

can you explain to me how removing the outer spring or the pig-tail will lighten the trigger pull? The weight you feel is the striker spring. Take the slide off of a stock Sigma and pull the trigger there is almost zero resistance. You could remove all of the sear assembly springs and still be left with a heavy pull because it is a DAO.

Let me just say that I have taken out the pigtail spring, polished smooth all of the contact points on the sear and trigger arm, and the contacts of the sear and the striker.

IT FEELS TONS SMOOTHER, maybe the smooooth feeling, feels "lighter" and it does feel lighter, but it may just be the smoothness, making it feel lighter..
My gun had a terrible "gritty" trigger pull witht the slide off, stock....its very smooth now...

I had one "failure to reset trigger" but this was before I did anything....since my trigger work I have had NO problems whatsoever....

SO even if it doesnt actually Lighten the trigger, a good polish job DEFINATELY smooths everything out, and very worth it IMO!!

I'm going to go against the majority (so far) grain a little here. First of all, if this is your first handgun, there is no way you should mess with it or do any of the things I'm going to describe here (actually a reprint of my old post) or consider the YouTube stuff. If you want these things done, they should be done by a qualified gunsmith and S&W probably won't pay for it.

I originally felt the Sigma I bought was junk, partly due to a hard trigger but mostly due to a "gritty" feel, and I was going to trade up to a M&P. I sent it to an official S&W gunsmith and it came back with the note, "replaced sear housing". If anything, the trigger was worse. My gauge doesn't go that high but I would estimate a 15 lb, gritty trigger pull. BTW the Sigma is my tenth handgun that I currently own.

The trigger pull weight of a gun, particularly a double-action (I'm not going to get into the debate about "it's not double action because it doesn't have a hammer"), is dependent on two things: friction and springs.

The design of the gun generally assumes that friction will go to near zero with use and then the springs will be the main factor. You can either put one or two thousand rounds through it, or you can mimic what that does and enjoy good shooting right away.

My SW40VE is well-designed, but rather cheaply manufactured, which means the out of the box heavy trigger-pull is mostly caused by friction, and I think that posters who are happy with the trigger out of the box probably got a smoother specimen than I did.

I've looked at the Internet videos and seen that they mostly involve doing something with the springs. If the main problem is friction, then messing with the springs is breaking something that isn't broken, instead of fixing what is broken. I've got guns that are over 100 years old and still in good working condition, ball-point pen springs are not built to last 100 years in a gun.

The problem is not in the trigger but in the lower sear mechanism. The "gritty" feeling comes from there, as does a lot of the friction.

The sear in any gun is two metal surfaces like blocks that face each other under spring pressure when the gun is cocked and the trigger causes them to slide apart, abruptly releasing the hammer, or in this case, the striker. Technically the sear is the single part that holds back the hammer (or, in the Sigma, the striker tang) but I'm using "upper" and "lower" here for clarity.

In the SW40VE the lower sear and sear housing are located in the rear of the frame. The lower sear is a cam which, when connected to the trigger by a simple metal link, will move rearward and downward, thus cocking the striker and then releasing it through a single trigger pull. The upper sear, or striker tang, is in the slide, connected to the striker.

The "grittiness" is caused by the fact that slot in the lower sear has been roughly machined, causing the bar that pushes the lower sear rearward to "chatter" through the machining marks. Also, the lower sear has an "S" shaped curve at the rear which interacts with a plastic ramp in the sear housing to drive the cam downward as it proceeds rearward. Again, rough machining marks here cause friction. The plastic is not the smoothest it could be, due to mold marks.

Finally, the surfaces of both the upper sear (attached to the striker in the slide) and the lower sear are roughly machined surfaces, causing friction.

So the real "trigger fix" is:

1. Smooth and polish the contact surface of the slot inside of the cam that is the lower sear (one poster said he took most of the fuzz off a Q-tip and put it in a dremel chuck, using metal polish to polish the slot at a very low speed.)

2. Smooth and polish the part of the lower sear cam that contacts the plastic sear housing as it moves rearward

3. Smooth and polish the mold marks on the plastic sear housing that contact the sear cam

4. Smooth and polish the contact surface (which contacts the upper sear) of the lower sear

5. Smooth and polish the contact surface of the upper sear (striker tang) which contacts the lower sear (you need to remove the striker from the slide to do this)

Some purists will object to 4 and 5, saying that the sear will be rounded and less crisp. But if you carefully polish the surfaces with the flat stick, that will be minimal. And a crisp sear is much more important and noticeable in a single action than a double action.

WARNING: Do not use a power tool for these steps! It is too easy to remove too much metal.

I used a flat metal fingernail file from Revlon to get the machine marks out (thanks to my wife who gave it to me a long while back). It fits in the slot. I would say that the rough side is about 400 grit and the smooth is about 500.

Then I used a 600 grit "Angle Cut Sanding Stick" (works better when wet) from www.stevenshobby.com to polish the surfaces mentioned.

You need a jeweler's loupe or some other 10X magnifier to look at the original condition and to see when you have polished enough.

Finally, I lubed all contact surfaces (including the side of the sear housing that contacts the sear) with a Hob-E-Lube dry graphite and molybdenum (HL651). Look for a hobby store that sells electric trains, for this stuff. I like dry lubes or Rem-oil in guns because neither tend to collect grit.

I would say the trigger pull is now smooth and comparable to a Glock 23 or the new S&W SD (which has a redesigned rotating sear mechanism that has its own issues.) Not as good as a S&W M&P.45, which I have also fired. The trigger pull weight breaks at 8 lbs, which I think is still safe for carry with one in the chamber.

No removed or replaced springs, but with the smoother, lighter, trigger, it's a keeper.

I used a glock 19 striker spring from wolff. I had no light strikes but it did a lot to lighten the trigger.

The striker tail engaged to the sear will apply leverage and resistance to the sear, compressing the strut springs as the sear cams on the internal surface of the housing harder than with slide removed, and it appears that the angle and center of rotation changes on the sear to put springs to work that are otherwise more relaxed with slide removed...

You are operating from the assumption that your casual look at the action with slide removed shows what is happening with slide installed....you are operating also from the assumption that there CAN be no lightening of pull by modifying the sear assy spring stack-up, despite every post you can find where someone has removed these springs and report an immediate lightening of pull.

A better use of logic would be to admit the people reporting a lightened pull are not insane nor are they lying, and to look at what is happening and to seek to understand it.

YEP !!!! Nice....pretty much what Ive done!!!

Id love to see someone put a gauge on a sigma with stock striker spring that has one or more of the sear trigger springs removed.

I have removed the outer as well as the pig-tail spring and felt no difference at all. No matter what you do to the sear assembly the striker must be pulled back. The weight of the striker is regulated by the striker spring not the sear.


My concern is about all these people wanting to lighten up the trigger, especially first time handgun owners, this gun was designed to be a service weapon, NOT a target pistol. It was not designed to be shot for hours on end.

When you modify a gun away from spec, don't be surprised when you don't get the satisfactory results. Even Wolff tells you, "Warning: For competition use only - not for duty use." That should be a major tipoff! In other words, if you fall off that rock and break your leg, don't come running to me!

Don't get me wrong, I can certainly appreciate the appeal of a genuine Smith & Wesson pistol for $300.00, but don't make it into something it is not. This gun has been out for awhile and there are plenty of reviews out there so there is no excuse for not knowing what you are getting into. The trigger pull issue is well known, but yet, you (whoever you are) bought one anyway!

OK, so lets assume you knew nothing about the gun before you bought it, why would you keep it if you found it tiresome to use because of the trigger pull? I understand that you own it and now you want to try and make it work better. I get that. With this mod, however, you are not necessarily making the pistol better. If you are lucky and shoot the right ammo, you will have a much more comfortable gun to fire, but don't come back here complaining about misfires.

I'm sorry, your statement is just inaccurate. The three springs (outer, inner, and pigtail) that reset the sear must be compressed in the trigger pull. The striker spring is not the only resistance to trigger pull.

In the Sigma it is easy to see how much they contribute to pull weight. Take the slide off and look down at the frame.

There is a trigger bar which starts at the trigger and wraps around the magazine well on the right to where it connects via a notch with a small pin which runs in the slot in the sear. This trigger bar has a metal tang that points upward (very close to the trigger bar notch). This tang disconnects the trigger bar from the sear after a round is fired. There is a track in the slide for the tang which has a hump in it that pushes the tang downward as the slide moves rearward. (look at the slide and you'll see it.) The sear then resets, but in order to reengage the sear the trigger must be released so that the trigger bar may move forward to set the sear pin in the trigger bar notch again.

Holding the frame, pull the trigger several times. Then push down on that tang and pull the trigger several times. The difference in the weight of the pull is the resistance of the sear reset springs plus the added friction in the sear.

That difference is never negligible, but the friction can be reduced by the polishing regimen I have described, which will reduce the friction. Removing or replacing with a weaker spring any of those three sear reset springs will reduce trigger pull weight, with the pigtail having the least effect. Removing or replacing any of them with a weaker spring will also decrease the reliability of the sear reset, which is why I don't recommend it.

If the sear does not reset, then your first shot will be your last.

all of the springs in the sear assembly still are less than the striker spring.

Are you trying to tell me if you have two springs one is say 2lbs and the other is 10lbs you have a combined weight of 12lbs

By removing the weaker of two springs you are still left with the weight of the heavier spring.

You seem to be missing my point of course with the slide removed the trigger will feel lighter (with one of sear springs removed) because you are not engaging the striker spring.

Im not debating the advantages of a fluff n buff on the trigger only the fact that removing one of the springs in the sear assemble will not result in a lighter trigger only a weaker reset.

I think we all get your point, which is the erroneous assumption all of the trigger pull is in the striker....as the previous poster pointed out, even with slide removed, you can tell how much extra the sear springs are adding by pressing on the disconnector hump on the trigger bar while pulling the trigger...it is a CONSIDERABLE amount, in a system which has poor mechanical leverage to begin with by design, and then decreased leverage and drag caused by the striker tail bearing hard on the sear which cams on the interior of housing now under increased friction load, PLUS the added weight of the striker spring. And rest assured, the more spring tension on the sear, the more friction is acting on sear/striker interface, and the harder the trigger pull will be.....this is why most any trigger job on most any gun includes a reduced power spring acting on the sear.

You are correct in pointing out messing with sear springs messes with reset....you are correct that messing with striker springs would give light hits, which is why most folk are not touching it....you are incorrect that lightening the stack-up under the sear would not and could not effect total pull....again, all you have to do it do as previous poster pointed out to see what can be reduced.

As for reset being a danger, i would hazard that the majority of posters here do not carry on a regular basis, or carry something smaller on a regular basis, and use the Sigma for a house gun and range gun, where the most serious danger is the greatly increased chance of inadvertant firing of the gun due to lightened pull, even more so during the less common times they actually carry the thing.....NOT the slim-to-none chance of most people ever being involved in a gunfight plus the sear choosing that moment to give problems. All the arm-chair commando talk aside, 99.9% of posters here or anywhere else have never drawn a gun with intent to use it, and 99.999% of posters here or anywhere have then been fired on or fired on someone else. Those of us that have also know 90% or more of the time, drawing a gun ends the problem right there, much less firing it. It's a different story for a front line soldier...to a far smaller degree a law enforcement officer...and to an incredibly small degree to the average civilian....you have better chance of being struck by lightning 9 times on Monday Jan 27, 2012 than of being in a gunfight AND having your gun malfunction.

Those of us that have carried for decades and generally carry something the size of a Sigma or larger (and the Sigma IS compact by classic gun standards), probably won't mess at all with the trigger aside from perhaps smoothing, as we know a safetyless gun NEEDS a heavy trigger to stay safe...

As for the people trying to work the trigger for tinkering, why not? Personally, i find all the folk working on ANY of these type guns, whether M&P/SW99/Glock/SD/XD/etc to try to improve pull and smoothness rather amusing....the guns were made to be easily manufactured, with bare minimum of polishing and fitting, from incredibly inexpensive/cheap materials such as stampings and plastic, and try as you might, you will never get the zero take-up, breaking icicle, zero overtravel, friction-free classic pull from a classic gun because you are not dealing with large glass-hard surfaces with razor-sharp edges acting directly off trigger and directly on what fires the cartridge....but you CAN make it better...if you think a smooth running bic lighter is what makes a good lighter...but these never will be the gun as an art form...they are guns as the disposable tool.

Just an observation, don't want to get anyone all fired up:

I've said all along that the sigma is what it is. It's simple, reliable and plain out fun. I love the ergonomics on this gun.

After all these years, the trigger debate keeps raging on. I can't believe that anyone purchasing a sigma today, doesn't know exactly what they're getting.

I've been called a purist and pep squad member here in this forum for offering my opinion. My best wishes to all who modify the gun, I hope you are successful and achieve the results you are looking for.

I fully get that the sigma isn't for everyone, it's not a model 41 or 22a is it? Just not going to happen. But for a striker defense gun without a safety, I think it's quite safe by design, actually ideal for it's intended purpose.

For me, the sigma is allot of fun, hope you all enjoy yours as well!

Lee

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SD9VE, American perfection!

mtngunr and leejack, both excellent perspectives on what this gun is and is not. For me this is a "truck gun" and is the only polymer-framed semi-auto that I own. If someone breaks into my car and steals my SW40VE, I'll just get another, or maybe a 40SD because I like the standard tritium night sight for this purpose.

For 9mm fun and cheap target shooting I have a CZ 75B, possibly the most used M&P pistol in the world. For even cheaper target shooting I have a Buckmark .22 target with rosewood grips that I love and my wife also likes to shoot. For pocket CC I have a small old Colt .380 Mustang (although I'm seriously considering the new Kimber Solo 9mm, but you have to get on a waiting list for that one.)

For HD I have a Rem 870 Mag Express, that ain't exactly loaded with sofa pillows, parked about 10 feet from where I sleep.

So, to the original poster, noguirre, I agree with the above-mentioned posters. This is a SD weapon with an incredible reliability record. If you want a gun for other purposes, you're just gonna have to get another gun.

Which, I think most of the folks on this thread would say, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Enjoy!

Thank you for your comment sir!

When I bought the gun, it was my daughters pick (even though a couple of our members had talked me into it). She tried out several and said that nothing fit her hand as well as the sigma. I too feel that it's one of the most comfortable natural pointers out there. Of all the poly no safety guns, I believe it to be the safest as well.

Once we got it and put a few rounds through it, we really liked it. My daughter shoots it very well and loves it.

I have another 9mm that I shoot excellent targets with, but I always like shooting the sigma, when I can get it away from my girl.

There are a couple of young men at the range (Glock boys) that always want her to shoot with them. I have watched them, and she holds her own with the sigma. I have been asked a few times if I'd done anything to the gun because they are amazed at how well she shoots it (Daddy's girl )

I know it's an inexpensive level gun, but the darn thing just keeps working, and our trigger is smooth, not gritty.

All said, I couldn't be happier with a $319 purchase, it puts a smile on my face every time and has given me the confidence in it, to rest in the nightstand.

Happy shooting to all!

Lee

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SD9VE, American perfection!

The Sigma is a great gun very reliable, for those who can not stand the trigger but still want a S&W product the SD or M&P might be a better choice.

The sigma does what it was designed to do, very well I might add. You can safely carry a round chambered without any fear of it going off. The Glock does have a lighter trigger which is why there are so many accidental discharges.

I do believe in modify firearms to suit the shooter but not at the cost of reliability. There are countless videos on YouTube were you see a person putting random springs in the sear assembly. Who knows the weight of these springs or how many cycles they are rated for? Worst case is the springs break and now they are floating in the sear block, not good if you are in a situation were you need the gun to fire.

If a person requires a lighter trigger why on earth did they purchase a Sigma? The firing operation of the Sigma is what makes it a heavy pull it acts just like a revolver. Why not get a firearm which is SA or SA/DA?

Most of the springs they are installing are only fillers for the larger outer spring, and whether it takes a set or not is of no consequence...as for sear springs making a huge difference, i guarantee i could add another 10-15lbs under the sear and you would NOT be able to budge the sear.

As to WHY? buy the Sigma, the answer is simple, even if most people intuit the idea rather than say it outright.....the guns cost under $100 to produce, all overhead including advertising included, whether Glock/XD/M&P/etc and most people blanch rightly at paying $500 or more for PLASTIC (not the manufacturer propaganda "polymer") pistol, when the only true difference between them is the trigger pull...if you don't believe that, then look at the picture below and pick out the $300 gun vs the $500 vs the $400 gun...

Just as a PS again as to WHY?....even as a constant gun toter and even knowing the heavy Sigma trigger is about the safest out there, for not using a dedicated covered-trigger holster or for proof against any inadvertant pressure on trigger while carrying/holstering and the BANG that will surely follow, i looked at some of the easy mods and got the itch, just because it is there...many folk who like guns are also people who like machines, and the Sigma is simpler every time you look at it, and most everyone who looks at one in detail KNOWS they could tackle this one....this isn't like fitting a new sear or extractor to a 1911...this is tinkertoys, and tinkertoys begged to be tinkered.

the above from oct 2010 Handloader magazine, article by Charles Petty

I agree 100% that most who purchased the sigma only did so because of the price. Myself included I would have never bought it if they didnt offer the two free mags at $299.

I also agree that this is a good gun to tinker with because of the low cost. I do the same thing to my lower cost guns. My only concern is for those who purchase the Sigma as their first gun for a dedicated carry gun. In that case any modifications to the firing mechanism would be ill advised unless you have the skill and knowledge.

There are many out there who just obtained their CHL and purchase the Sigma because of the low cost. Which there is no problem with that at all the Sigma makes a great carry gun if left as is from factory.

I wouldnt want my life to depend on a spring I pulled out of a pen or a pencil.

I just want to touch on this one more time....the most important objection is SAFETY, as the heavy pull is the ONLY thing that prevents the gun from firing inadvertantly...the 1911 has multiple safeties to prevent such from happening, and i have seen even them fail when the full-cock notch was worn PLUS the sear spring had inadequate tension to catch the half-cock, and the gun discharged when the slide was racked...but normally you can lighten the pull up and be assured the thumb safety, half-cock, and grip safety will do their job. As for DA revolvers, nobody in their right mind is lowering the DA pull to what folk are doing to Sigmas, and if they did, there would not be enough power to the hammer for reliable ignition.

The world is full of stories of guns along Glockish lines lacking any sort of manual safety discharging when holstered and the finger was a bit slow getting off the trigger, or some leather in the holster bunching ahead of the trigger and the gun firing as the seated wearer turned, or the gun worn with the trigger exposed and the trigger getting hung on something, or the gun in a pocket and something getting hung in the trigger so that when the gun was drawn the gun also fired, etc etc etc etc etc.

THIS is the main reason to not mess with the Sigma trigger....if you intend on carrying, you should really not do more than perhaps smooth/polish working surfaces, unless you are fully aware the gun will require the special handling precautions of other guns of this ilk....most people doing these mods are completely unaware of the dangers of doing so....

IF they know this, then there is no real reason to deny them their fun, but they will be cutting down on versatility, such as it now MUST always have a rigid holster with fully covered trigger as a forever accessory stuck to the gun....for a range or house or vehicle gun, this is not much a liability, so long as they are also assured reliable function, and even then, a range gun doesn't even need that...

But advising against mods has nothing to do with snobbishness or ignorance from most posts i've read, and has everything to do with keeping the original idea behind the gun intact....a safetyless self-loader that is as safe as a modern DA revolver....which is an uncommon thing...a VERY uncommon thing.

I have worked on the triggers of mine and the wifes. Mine is a bit lighter and a bit shorter than hers. Last range trip she fired mine much better than hers and we swapped.Yesterday I worked on my "new to me" one and smoothed out the trigger pretty good. I left the striker as is . On my old one I took a tiny bit off the striker where it breaks from the sear and that shortened the pull a little. This is really something that should be done by a gunsmith. I probably got lucky that it worked out good. Both still have the torshion springs but I've modded them so the do very little. All other springs are factory. Solid, safe, realiable, bargain price and born in the USA.

__________________
US Army 1965-1971

I think this thread proves my point even more than searching old threads. I simply stated that people who advise against modding a Sigma are simply providing an opinion. An opinion that may or may not be supported in fact (and one that they seem to be very defensive about). My opinion differs as my first hand experience differs. But because of that words like obnoxious, snobbishness and ignorance are being thrown around. The OP bought a Sigma and came here because he is obviously concerned about the heavy trigger pull. He was looking for a solution and if there were any known (and proven) potential issues. I am pretty sure he was not concerned with keeping the original idea behind the gun intact.

He also stated this was his first handgun, so id assume he is not a gunsmith. Best case he files the sear down a little removes some springs and the gun works but now you have voided the warranty.

I still stand by my original statement that you will still be left with a heavy trigger because of the striker spring, its a DAO the trigger will be heavy. A easy way to show this is with a factory Sigma (empty of course) rack the slide back to engage the striker and pull the trigger, notice the weight. Now without racking the slide pull the trigger again, what you feel now is only the weight of the springs in the sear assembly not the striker.

I just can't understand why people buy a DAO pistol then complain about the weight of the trigger. For about the same price you can get a DA/SA.

I would say those comments implied a certain amount of whatever it is you are denying, and it seems other respondents took it that way too....i certainly stated my reasons in what i thought was a coherent manner.

and i hope my response showed to the original poster the inadvisability of "fixing" the heavy trigger for SAFETY reasons, and not unlikely ayoobism lawsuit fear nor in compromising reliability, which may or may not be an issue to the original questioner,... and totally concurred that light modification, such as polishing parts for smoother operation was a no-harm-no-foul...

in short, using my post for an example of whatever it is you feel is wrong with advise to leave well enough alone, was a poor one to use for an example....as poor an example as using 1911's with manual safeties as a green light to modify the trigger on a safetyless gun, likewise the DA revolvers which can not be lightened to near the degree as the Sigma and the gun still fire...and safety is not an opinion...it is a fact.

and as a PS, i would be giving this exact same advise were he inquiring about a Glock, M&P, whatever...it's just so happens the Sigma is safer out of the box than any of those best sellers, due to the trigger he wants to "fix" as if it were defective.

I would respond but you completely lost me while I was trying to translate the very first sentence.

I'm fairly new to the gun game but other than a 1930 Model 1905, my wife and I have test fired any gun we were interested in then bought the one we liked. I can't see the point of buying something you don't really like and then immedialtely trying to "fix" it.

That's always baffled me too! Especially when it isn't broke in the first place.

There are plenty of guns out there with a lighter trigger to choose from.

__________________
SD9VE, American perfection!

Does anyone know of a Gunsmith who might evaluate a Sigma's
trigger mechanism for potential modification ? I guess I don't want to f*** up my gun. But I would like a lighter pull and possibly a shorter trigger travel. I have been told S&W will not
modify the trigger at all if you send it to them. Or, they will
put it back to the original specs if you send them one that has been modified. Anyone have a name or contact of someone who
will professionally evaluate and modify these guns ???
Thankx for any input.

Dont know if he still does it or not but everyone use to send their sigma under warranty to this guy, there is no free trigger job. If your sigma trigger is excessively gritty or doesnt break correctly send it on in.

LSG Manufacturing
Ask for Frank Smith
10059 Hwy 1476
Comanche, TX 76442
(325) 885-2700
[email protected]
LSG, Mfg|Gun Parts|Warranty|Gunsmithing

As to the above question on trigger work, i also had heard about the gent over in TX being a licensed warranty station, and also Smith was honoring complaints about rough triggers by smoothing them somewhat, which sounds like an excellent remedy for those folk who don't wish to do any of the smoothing/polishing operations listed elsewhere.....

No translation needed....i spelled it out for you....the first comment you made about "for some reason" implied lack of reason to several respondents, and now you act as if you are being assaulted while you are as pure as the driven snow and the entire thread is all about quashing your "opinion", insulting you personally, and used my post as an example....oh, puhleeez....

No need to become a drama queen. I get it. You want this to be about me and not about the gun. This is a discussion about opinion versus fact and not something to get so emotional over.

Like I said; everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that does not make it a fact no matter how much you argue about it or how many times you declare it to be true. You can own your opinion and I will own mine. The OP can weigh the merits of both and hopefully seek out many more opinions off forum and from other professional sources before making a decisions.

Hopefully all goes well and he is able to improve on an already very good gun or learn to like it as is.

I just like to see a video of a someone actually measuring the trigger pull

This post is not intended to disparage Mr. Smith. Last year, after owning a SW40VE for a year and being unhappy with the grittiness of the trigger and the heavy pull, I contacted Mr. Smith and made arrangements to have him check my gun.

I had run about 200 rounds through it which, in my experience, usually is an adequate "break-in". The trigger had improved slightly but not adequately.

Well, a copy of my invoice is attached (there was no charge).

As you can see, "GRITTY, HEAVY TRIGGER PULL, TRIGGER SLACK" are cited as my complaint.

The handwriting is faint but reads, "Replace sear housing Test fire 10 rounds."

When I got the gun back, it was more gritty than when I sent it in. I had a new sear to break in. I think Mr. Smith did what a warranty gunsmith can be expected to do.

So I took it in my own hands, took the sear block out, removed the striker, and did the smoothing and polishing which I have described elsewhere.

My point is that, if you pull the trigger and it goes "Bang", then, in my experience, S&W figures it is working.

If you want to smooth out the trigger (and take several pounds off the pull weight) then I suggest you check with a local range for a referral to a private gunsmith and ask if he will do the things that I have described elsewhere. {See post #19 on this thread} You will wind up with all of the original springs intact.

It should not be too expensive and I think you will be pleased with the result. But I would not expect S&W to do this for you as part of the warranty.

BTW, Academy Sports in Dallas advertises the Sigma VE, both 9mm and .40, for $280 today. I keep this gun in the car loaded with Winchester 180gr PDX1 JHPs. I'm not going to put a $1,200 Kimber Custom in the car and have it stolen.

Attached Images

11 05-22 LSG invoice.jpg (55.4 KB, 93 views)

I know I am late to this discussion. There is one thing though that has been said over and over that just doesn't compute.
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"If you remove or lighten any of the springs in the sear assembly you are still left with the heavy striker spring. If you have 2 springs which are mechanically linked (one is 2lbs the other is 10lbs) and remove or lighten the smaller spring you are still left with the weight of the heavier spring."
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Your theory is all wrong here. If you have a 10lb spring and add a 2lb spring to it it DOES increase the pull.

it would be like saying I have a 12oz cup with only 10oz coffee in it and add 2oz of coffee. I don't have 10oz of coffee I have 12oz of coffee.

So if I drink 2oz of that 12oz of coffe, I am left with 10oz of coffee.

Springs are work in the same way as gravity in my illustration.

So go have some coffee and take a load off.

interested in making my trigger smoother. Probably will not remove spring but how and where do you polish? Bill

polish surfaces that mate but dont grind on them.

the trigger is heavy, like the double action on a wheel gun. there are two thing you can do. first you can shoot it a lots and learn the trigger. or, second you can do a trigger clean up and drop in a galloway trigger kit. i got two sigmas and one i did option 1 and the other option 2. both guns are used a range guns for the grandkids. they have many round shot. both have never given me any problems. so if the standard heavy trigger is to heavy for you then do a trigger clean up and the galloway trigger kit.