Sigma

This may be old but I thought it was a good comparison. Especially the part about the Glock being over priced, considering the manufacturing process. These guns really are very similar, trigger weight exception.

Very good review. Better than a lot of the reviews I've read where every gun is great.

I also found the part about the Glock being over priced very interesting.

Let me first say that I am a S&W man. In my opinion, particularly the vintage N frames, they are works of art and every S&W collector who can possibly afford one should have one that is NIB. That being said, I have owned Colt, S&W, Ruger, Beretta, High Standard, Browning, & Glock. I haven't owned Kimber and some of the high end semi-autos. Beside my bed is a Glock 19 that I paid $485 for, with a GTL 21 Light/Laser attached, the laser was $200. Out of all the semi's that I have owned, I'll take the Glock. Want to talk about over-priced guns? Take a look at the 199 Pythons listed on GB. If they are so valuable, why are there always plenty of people willing to sell theirs for a mortgage price. I'll take a vintage 27 any day! OK, I'm off the soapbox. Next!
DLB

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Be Kind! John 3:16,14:27

Good review, I do prefer the ergonomics of sigmas grip over the Glock. I as well don't see why so many people are "Glock crazy", they are a quality gun and sold in every corner gun store. I"ll take my $300 glock knock off any day.

Well said!

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How many guns are too many?

I somewhat agree. Yes Glocks are overpriced in the fact that the first thing you have to do is buy new sights to replace the cheap plastic ****** ones, which adds $100+ to the price of the gun. Other than that...please... the sigma in no way shape or form will ever never out perform or out last a Glock. Don't get me wrong the sigma and the SD series have their place and S&W makes fine weapons but "IMHO" Glocks are still top shelf as far as durability, performance, self repair, and quality(with the exception of their stock sights).

I don't think we know how long the sigma will last.

I've yet to read any evidence of controlled testing that says a sigma has a service life of XXXXXX rounds.

As far as I can tell, it will just keep going like the glock does (with exceptions in both cases of course).

Having shot both guns, if there is an advantage to the glock it's easier to pull the trigger and easier to shoot targets. The sigma advantage is the ergonomics and the inherent safety of the trigger. With practice and dedication, the trigger can be mastered. I've always thought that the sigma trigger is the most overblown subject on the internet anyways.

If I'm using a glock at the range by myself, no problem at all; but when passing a gun back and forth with family members or teaching new shooters I feel much more comfortable with the safety of the sigma. If anyone has ever heard of an accidental or negligent discharge with a sigma, do tell please.

As far as price goes, if a product is worth the money to me, than it's worth it, it may or may not be to someone else and vise versa. There are bazillions of glock owners out there that will tell you their gun is well worth the money indeed; no arguement from me.

Certainly the G19 has earned a great reputation while the sigma was born under a dark cloud, but I can tell you that the 9VE has been allot of fun for me. In forum after forum, sigma owners are calling their gun a good gun, the reputation has much improved over the past few years.

How long will the sigma last? No famed torture tests? Who knows, it just keeps going.

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SD9VE, American perfection!

This is a good thread, I as well would like to see a torture test. Lets say a 500 round non stop, throw them in the dirt and fire the entire 14-15 rounds. I'm game if I only had a Glock.

As far as price imo a Glock is like a Harley some of that money is just for the name. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Someone out there just might be willing to pay $400+ for a $300 Sigma if that's the gun he wants.

Sales rule #1 - People buy emotionally, back it up logically. Almost no one buys logically, even Sigma owners.

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VE40 2010 22A 1110 MPc40 706

When I saw the Sigma before I bought one I was not too impressed with it.Then my LGS had a sale on them and it peaked my intrest.I had never even considered a plastic gun,until I held the Sigma.That's what sold me! To me it's all about the way a gun feels in your hands,then everything after that is second.

The trigger was not a big deal with me because I own a lot of revolvers.But the gritty feeling was more then I could take. After S&W did their majic on it I was happy.The trigger only gets better the more you shoot it.

Overall,i'm very impressed with my $300 gun.I would like to see it go heads up against a Glock in a torture test.Even if it were to hang in there thru out the test it would still be a winner.

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How many guns are too many?

No, seriously, you'd take that Glock? Why? Glock is a piece of dung. Glock made the term BOOM not bang. Of all the guns on the market there have never been such a high percentage of a manf'r weapons to malfunction, jam , misfire or injure its operator. Why would you choose a gun that is so tempermental with ammo loaded into it. If you don't use the specified ammo you Glock could mame or even kill you. Did you make that statement out of pure ignorance or were you serious?

I'll tell you what there, chief. I and every other Sigma owner will bet you there entire collection that if you took your Glock of any model agianst a Sigma and we went to the range with 2,000 rounds of +p cast reloads my Sigma would do just fine and your Glock would go BOOM and take a chunck of your hand with it before you were done with the whole case. I have fired thousands of these rounds out of my Sigma without any problem. Get one of you buddies that reloads ammo to make you some and go to the range and start shooting, I dare you. Bring a camera and let everyone in on this post know when you go, post a live feed. I want to see you blow your hand off and stick your foot not only in your mouth but all the way down your throat. Secondly your really don't know how a Sigma would perform in the right hands. I for one have never fired a Glock that did not stove pipe on me within 50 rounds. I have over 22,250 rounds through my sigma and I have never had a malfunction. I know that you have though. All Glocks malfunction early in their life, and I mean ALL.

Dang it all, I just told a guy I would sell him my Sigma SW40VE and all of a day later I already know I will be buying another one. The simple practical value of the Sigma with the heavy trigger seems to make it such a great practice and training tool. And I was dumb enough to accept and offer to buy it...

Well, don't hold back bud. Just tell us how you realy feel. lol

I think I did a rather great job at holding back, thank you very much. If i wanted to tell you how i really felt, you wouldn't be done reading my previous pot yet.

That review pretty well squares with my experience. My agency was early to allow the Glocks, and I wound up training people on them, attending the "armorer's schools", and shooting other peoples' a lot. As a matter of fact my daughter, 13 at the time, chose a G19, later attended Gunsite with it, and still considers it her primary.

After retirement I got a G17 to wring it out thoroughly and to try to learn to love it, more for its spartan utility than anything else. It "worked" as advertised, but in a year and some 1200 plus rounds I never got to where I could hit well with it. The issue was the stock trigger, best described as a green twig breaking. Granted, there are about 115 permutations of the Glock trigger, but I thought that with enough time I could surely call and group my shots. I was wrong--very wrong--and eventually traded the 17 straight across for not one, but two nice Ruger Security Sixes that I COULD hit with.

About two years ago I picked up a 9VE Sigma on sale because I liked the feel of it, it said S&W on the side, and I love a bargain. The dreaded heavy trigger didn't bother me a bit after years of shooting DA revolvers, and it didn't hurt a bit that the Sigma was somewhat less ugly than a Glock.

My first time out with the Sigma was something of a shock. Not only did it go bang but my groups were right where they belonged and pretty small as well. Over time I find that if I do my part they can be very small indeed.

95% of the first 500 rounds were a handloaded duplicate of the Remington 115 gr. JHP. Three failures to feed suggested that the pistol does not always like that load. I sent the gun in to S&W and I am currently running factory FMJ and some factory JHPs through it to establish reliability. I have not chronographed the handloaded rounds through the Sigma, but the factory JHPs have more bounce and I am beginning to suspect that my rounds might be just a bit underpowered for the Sigma. It loves the JHPs (Federal 124 grain H/S) and they group like .38 wadcutters.

Apropos of triggers, I have been shooting a new Kahr CW45 lately. Kahrs are noted for an excellent 5 pound trigger. This little .45 ACP howitzer is about the size and weight of a G19 and shoots like a Gold Cup. The first round I ever fired out of it was dead centered and very few of the ones that followed deviated from that. It really makes me look good, and the holes are definitely impressive.

Glocks are not only overpriced, but IMHO greatly overrated. Henry Ford sold a lot of Model Ts too, but their day came--and went.

The Sigma and the glock 19 are different guns. They are very hard to compare. Both are striker fired but that's about it. I don't get into the one is better than another anymore. I drive an F150 and haven't had a problem with it ever.

I'm not a BLOCK fan but would buy a 26 if carry ever came to this ****** state.

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The kool-aid Sigma drinker

Welcome to the club "Flying White Rodent Poop" LOL!
This is a never ending battle between good sense and Glock owners. No matter what is said Glock owners will always come come back with, "NAAHAA"!!! or they don't ever comeback at all. Most of them are so far gone they can't see beyond their own mistake and want everyone else to make the same mistake they did. They figure if enough people make the same mistake they will out number the ones that make a good decision and therefore be the right desision to have made to begin with. I believe you can't believe everything you hear or read. When I was told by an advisor, they buy the glock for the Military and LE, not because they are good guns but because they are so stink'n cheap, it did not surprise me at all.
I have never had the opp to fire a Kahr. I have seen them at my local GS but never took more than a second glance. I have only used a handfull of firearms not made in the U.S. and out of them the CZ and the Beretta are the best ones IMO. Glock stove pipes every time I have fired one and SIG just has to much going on for me. I will have to look at the Kahr again and see if I can find somewhere to rent it. Thanks for insight.

Good luck with the carry issue .357. CA is pretty much in the same boat. This is a "may issue" state. They forgot to in clude the "NOT" in "may issue" though. If you ar not a leo, you are NOT gett'n one. we are lucky to be able to get a hunting license here with all the Donkeys in office here.
One of our senetors' Barbra Boxer said, and I quote, "Why do Californian's need hunting licenses, why can't they just go to the market and buy their meat like everyone else, that way no animal ever has to get hurt".

I agree, That is how I felt about the SD at first until I molestered it in the LGS. I compared it to the M&P line and figured wow other than the trigger this may be nice to have. So I tool the plunge and haven't looked back, best $380 I have spent in awhile.

Well vector16 I assume you know of actual incidents in which
a tempermental Glock decided to "injure its operator", like
some unpredictabe dog breeds I suppose. I will agree with
you that a Glock or any other brand could be considered more
"tempermental with ammo loaded into it" than without ammo
loaded into it. As to "ALL" Glocks malfunctioning when new;
I have a 26 that I bought new that has fired several hundred
rounds of a variety of ball and HP ammo with ZERO
malfunctions.

Vector is talking about lead bullets, not ball ammo. Glock barrels are not to have lead cast bullets shot through them.

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The kool-aid Sigma drinker

I've seen 2 Glocks blow up on ranges I was shooting at. 1 in the lane next to me, which was an uncomfortable position to be in. I didn't find out what they were trying to shoot through them, but I have never witnessed any other firearm do that. Give me my 629 any day.

I have seen a couple myself. My first time I saw a Glock explode, a cop had loaded +p ammo and it took his hand with it when it went. Big mess. Another time was a guy that bought a whole lot of ammo at a gun show and did not know about the cast bullets and leaving lead deposits, he was lucky his action just blew and not his Polymer frame like the other guy. I have been witness to a couple more and it is just not a purty sight, and the words that come out of their mouths, oooh, boy!! It has to do with the octogonal rifling for the cast rounds and the lack of support at the action for the +p and the +p+ rounds, when you have them both together it makes quite a mess of the operator and the gun.
Look some of this stuff up all by your self Alwslate. You don't need to need to just hate the people that tell you this, hate the manuf'r too, its their fault.

Not knocking glocks,but I purchased 2 used excellant cond. sigmas for $450 out the door for both.After about 500 rds. ea.the triggers have smoothed up.An sw40ve and an sw9ve,both w/ 2 hi-cap mags each. Five shots into a fist sized group @ 20 yds.offhand.Feels better than glocks in the hand to me.CCW for either of these.Ultra reliable even w/ Tulammo from russia. Conventional riflings in the bore gives you access to lead loads and not just jacketed like polygonal bore glocks.