Hello everyone, I am new to the forum, as I recently purchased an S&W Sigma sw9f...

I recently made an impulse purchase at a gun show. I don't know much about S&W semi-autos, but I know M&Ps are considered great.

I had just gotten done looking at a Sigma sw9ve for $299. I walk down a ways and see an all black similar gun tagged as an M&P for $400. Looking at the slide i see a different model number, sw9f, so I didn't think any thing was off. I asked him about it and he said it was an earlier model M&P, again no reason to doubt him. Sooo, I end up paying $325 OTD with only one magazine. I get home and begin to research sw9f and realize he lied to my face.

It appears that the Sigma is not too bad, beyond a tough trigger, but I shoot my wheelguns DA so I don't care. My question is this...

DID I GET SCREWED TOO BAD MONEY-WISE??? Will the Sigma be reliable? Can I get mags for less than $30 anywhere? Is the 9f much different from the 9ve, better/worse?

I just feel bamboozled, I guess next time I'll take time to research and not trust people so much...

Thank you all for your responses.

The SW9F and SW40F were they first model polymer framed pistols that S&W produced... they were too close to Glocks and got S&W sued by Gaston Glock.

$325.... I'm not up to speed enough to say if that's too high.

Reliability... I had a first year production SW40F, had issues right out of the chute... went back to S&W 3 times within 90 days, I got rid of it.

Issues... trigger pin kept backing out of the frame under recoil. The trigger return spring broke.... I don't know if they've changed the design on the newer versions.

It was/is a coil spring with loops on each end that a pin fits through, and inside the length of the spring is a white "pipe cleaner" looking thing that is a vibration damper. If it gets wet from cleaning or taken out, the spring will break from harmonics. I got Hoppes on it, not knowing it was there and that's why it broke.

Mags are generally around $30-35...

You should ask how you did in the Sigma/SD sub forum where there folks more familiar with the poly pistols than me... I've stuck with the metal 3rd gens.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

It's not a Terrible price but I would have raised holy heck with that buyer. You deserve a full refund.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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All Rights Reserved

Yeah, I would raise hell, but it was a private seller...i don't even have a phone number...if I see him at the next gun show we're gonna have words

The SW9F was the best of the 1st gen Sigma's. Over in the Sigma sub-forum there are a few SW9F owners that are very happy with theirs. The SW40F was much more problematic. The good news is that if your Sigma falls apart or just plain doesn't work there's a really good chance S&W will either fix it or just send you an SW9VE instead.

And $300-325 is pretty normal for the SW9F.

Rest easy, you didn't get screwed. The price you paid was not the lowest, nor the highest, that a used SW9F will sell for. So, don't worry any more about the price and go shoot the snot out of it.

However, the seller did lie to you, and with a straight face. Feel free to discuss this with him should you see him again. Perhaps you will be so lucky as to point out the error of his statements to you just as he is about mislead another potential buyer...

The only person that secrewed you....was YOU!
Research, research, research and be a prepared buyer. You will hear so much ill intended advice at a gun show, it's almost criminal.

In that environment, the uninformed becomes a target. If you make a purchase without doing your homework, like I said, you only screw yourself.

The last SW40F I bought was a LEO sell off/trade in with four magazines from KY Imports. I paid $165 and sold it for $225. I made a few dollars and the buyer felt good as he bought below what the other sellers where asking for the same gun with fewer magazines. BTW this was five years ago and prices have gone up since then. $325 OTD with one magazine is not a bad price in todays market.

For magazines check cdnninvestments <DOT> com, KYimports <DOT> com or 44MAG <DOT> com.

Class III

Well...I went and put 200 rounds (Rem UMC) out of the Sigma as fast as I could without "rapid fire" and I was pleased. I did have 3 failure to feeds (each toward the end of the mag), but I am gonna polish the feed ramp. It was cheap ammo too.

Regardless, I am going to this weekend's gun show, hopefully I will see the seller again and I am going to give him three options. 1. Buy it back at full price, 2. Give me $75 (since I would've never paid more than $250 for a used version of what was selling for $299 across the aisle), or 3. I will stand by his table and tell every passer-by and potential buyer what he did to me.

Whadya think??

Thanks everyone for your help!

Bad idea. As a previous poster noted, you need to do your homework before buying any used gun. I'd see if he would give you a refund. If not, go quietly away and realize that you learned a valuable lesson. You have to take responsibility for your actions (and he should be responsible for his).

Buyer Beware, It's a Smith, shoot it.... if it fails, S&W is good for a repair or replace.. It's all good. If ya really hate it sell it... Good Luck

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82nd Airborne Div 1980-1986

Here is my two-cents worth. The orig. SW40F/9f [gen. 1 Sigma] had its flaws like any other firearm. I was an SP in the USAF in 88-92 and we occasionally had an issue with the M9/92F's. As an FFL when the Sigma came out I was impressed and I shot one side-by-side with a Glock and personally preferred a Sigma. I sold approx 24 [12 9mm's /12 40's] never had any customer issues that were brought to me. They are high quality guns and the magazines are top-shelf. I kept one of the 40's for myself and it has been flawless. The only mods I have done is polish the feel ramp and replace plastic recoil rod with a steel one. Still using original spring, though I'm looking at a 1lb stiffer than factory from Wolff Springs. Sure I wish I could get an extended slide lever and trigger tune kit and wish it had a reversable mag release but it is what it is. The ones that followed, variants with the silver slides are in my opinion inferior quality [though I'm not saying they are bad] just had to be reworked as part of the Glock lawsuit conditions. That is why they are cheaper. The Gen. 1 variants are basically a S&W Glock copy. This line then evolved into the M&P line that add a rail and some Amb. control features [basically a modern Gen. 1 Sigma] Which is a firearm I would recommend. In the end it comes down to personal pref. and how much $ you have to blow. I just purch. a NIB/unfired SW9F w/2 mags for $410 which I feel is a good price. I will do a few basic mods and put away for my son until he is 21. Considering Glocks are $700 plus, Sig's are $800 plus, H/K's are $900 plus [if you can find ANY right now] Gen. 1 Sigmas are a super deal esp. a NIB one. a used one may be ok if you can see/finger it first. JMO/God Bless America and our Veterans [past & present]

Aside from not getting a sale receipt or at-least something with the sellers name, address, & phone number, you did ok. You DO need AT-LEAST one other magazine, 'tho.

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Dann Fassnacht
Hoquiam, WA

Not a terrible situation that you were in, however, the fact of the matter is, he LIED to you. If you do see him again, confront him about it. Don't make yourself out to be an *****. Just let him know, that you know.

Sorry buddy ...

my advise - shoot it, enjoy it, and move on.

Anything you do to try to get back at the seller at this point will only increase your feelings of frustration.
What is the cliché ? "living well is the best revenge"

Buyer beware - know the item you are searching for and be ready to buy or walk. They made plenty of all this stuff... In these days and times, I would think that if you start something at or in a gun show, you will drawn attention which will get both of you thrown out and banned from future shows. Happened to a buddy of mine over something real silly...

Every gunshow I've attended (not that many) has been staffed w/uniformed LEO's for security. If you confront the seller the way you indicate you might get yourself arrested (disorderly conduct, trespass, etc.). Not worth it IMHO.

I am sorry for what happened but it is sage advise to just walk away if the seller does not refund your money.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

If you do see him, I would NOT confront him in a hostile manner. As others have mentioned, it may get you in trouble, rather than resolve the issue. Giving him a LOT of benefit of the doubt, maybe he didn't know the difference...and if he is an honest man, he'll give you something back ($50 or $75 would be nice, IMO.)

If he doesn't, walk away. It's not the end of the world...no one likes to be taken advantage of, but it's a lesson learned. If you don't have one now, maybe before you go to the next show, get a smart phone with internet access, and if you see something you like but don't know for sure what it is, google it.

GKC just told the best advice there is/.,..Since the WHOLE world lives in their phone, Goggle stuff Works for me... Which from what I am gathering from everyone you can sell it and break even,. So hey sounds ok to me..
BTW-- I own a Sigma .40 sve with 2500-3000 rounds thru it NO ISSUES YET OF ANY KIND (so far)... I'm afraid if I were only able to afford 1 gun irregardless of cost it would be this one.. That includes all the expensive ones too.. This is a self defense weapon. with a Crimson trace on it I put 14 rounds in a 2 inch circle at 21 ft. ( 7 yds) what more is there to say????
RH

"Enjoy The Trip, The Destination Is Not The Goal"

One theing i learned is to use 115 grain it seems to like it a whole lot bet and much smoother action when fired. I tried what i remember as 148 to 150 something like that and it would not complete ejection of the shell

I paid $250 for mine little over a month ago and just traded it in on a new SD9VE. The gun was great shooting, but I had a cracked sear and finally found one it was $50. For $80 and trade of the SW i get a new gun with a lifetime warranty and a much better trigger system (much nicer now with the Apex trigger). Not being original owner hurts for the S&W repair work, they are not cheap. Sometimes they will give used gun owners a break, sometimes not. Most parts are restricted so can not just order them and install them yourself...regardless of what you may hear from people. Did you get taken?????....depends on the gun. If it is a shooter and no problems...just enjoy it till it breaks then make a decision to repair or replace.

Poor guy, people who act on impulse should never have to face consequences.

Private seller, Caveat Emptor..."Let the buyer beware"...

This is also why I've started loving my Smartphone,
I can check a few things before making a purchase...

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Marlin & Calico Specialist

Pretty sure it was the SW99 that got Smith sued by Gaston. Still have a marketing poster hanging in the garage.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

As a general rule, impulse buys are bad for me. Unless it's a grail gun, I don't do it. I don't know if you got "hurt" or not. If you hate it and have to take a loss on the resale, then yes. If you like it, probably not.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

My opinion? You can confront him but do so politely. I don't think you'll get anywhere except to ease your mind about the situation. As others have said, take this as a lesson, keep the gun and shoot the heck out of it. I've made mistakes in the past that I regret, mostly selling guns I should have kept. I got over it though and just bought more to make up for it.

One suggestion though. If you really want the other gun, buy it and keep both. Nothing wrong with having a few more in your safe!

My two cents: (1) the price was high, perhaps, but it isn't going to eat anything; (2) a good case could be made that the original SIGMA SW9F was better than subsequent models as the interior was changed after the suit by Glock to make it less like the Glock in its mechanism. Nothing wrong with being more like a Glock.

By the way, the M&P uses the same or similar trigger return spring with the little tampon insert. S&W tells its LE agency customers to change that spring when magazine springs are changed. Not a bad idea, but I have never had one vibrate itself in two. On the other hand, the problem was discovered so early that I thought everyone knew from one of the original articles about the then-new SIGMA not to get that little tampon wet with anything. So, don't put lube, water, solvent or anything else on that spring.

By the way, the appearance of the SIGMA is not the primary reason Glock sued. The suit included alleged patent infringement over, perhaps other things, but at least the "positive guide means," I believe it was called on Glock's patent application. Whatever the correct term, it was part of the Glock that supported the cruciform sear, thereby preventing the sear from dropping out from engagement with the lug on the firing pin as a result of inertia or other forces, should the pistol be dropped on on its bottom, i.e. the trigger guard area.

The Glock is advertised with 3 safety devices: (1) trigger safety (prevents inertia discharge if pistol dropped on its REAR end); (2) firing pin safety (prevents inertia discharge if the pistol is dropped on its FRONT end or muzzle; and, (3) drop safety, which prevents the cruciform sear from "dropping out" of engagement with the lug on the firing pin. The "positive guide means" is not a part, as in replacement part, but a feature molded into the frame which supports the lateral arm of the cruciform sear to prevent the sear from dropping out of engagement with the lug on the firing pin.

I prefer my SIGMA to have a part such as this, as opposed to it not having such a part.

Personally, I think you should keep it and enjoy it.

The mainest thing is that you are enjoying shooting it.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

The SW99 was a collaboration between Walther and S&W, it was S&Ws' version of the Walther P99. S&W made the upper and Walther supplied the lowers.

Doubt very much that Glock would have anything to sue over regarding patent infringements being the gun was based on a patented Walther design.

Plus the Glock suit regarding the Sigma, and the out of court settlement in 1997 where S&W paid an undisclosed amount and agreed to alter the Sigma design, is well documented in various venues.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

You bamboozled yourself. Get over it and move on. Impulse buying can be very expensive. Next time research the item before you buy it! Just chalk it up to a lesson learned.

mb

You are not ready to buy guns!
You need to do a lot of looking, reading, research and ask questions - before you buy.
Information and knowledge are the buyers weapons.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

I'll echo what others said. It was not a great deal, but you are not the first person to hear a yarn from someone selling a gun -- and sometimes its the 'professionals' in gun stores that tell the stories! You did not pay that much, and you did get a functioning pistol that has value and utility. You can shoot the heck out of it, and do some more research before you buy your next gun. And you can sell this gun for a fair price when you want to move on, so your total loss won't be very much.

Your next gun? A M&P9 or a SD9VE? Both are excellent. The differences and relative merits of each are discussed at length in this forum.

The SD9VE is no longer called a "Sigma," but is in fact a much improved variant of the early Sigmas. By the way, most people don't consider the M&P to be "derived from" the Sigma, although you see that assertion often. The takedown system, sear set up, rail, sights, etc., are sufficiently different to justify calling it a different gun. But almost all polymer striker fired pistols owe a lot to the Glock design, which the Sigma copied very closely (some parts are interchangeable between contemporaneous Glocks and Sigmas).

The gun you just bought is a great starting point for the decision on what to buy next. I'd consider it a loss of a small amount of money and the gain of some very useful experience.

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S&W Rover

I'm with S&W Rover. My late brother carried one of these in Federal Law Enforcement and liked it. I think his agency allowed three duty guns and he used this for one of his three. If you paid too much, you didn't overpay by much and probably didn't at all. It's a good lesson and not a costly one. Good luck on the next purchase which you will no doubt study a bit more. Sometimes a seller is telling the truth as he believes it to be. What he said may not be accurate but he may have thought it was.