Trigger pin coming out... AGAIN!!!

[Techse7en77]

Shot 50 more rounds through my SD40VE yesterday... and the pin started out after about 30 shots or so. What the hell man? It easily popped right back in and stayed in... but why does this keep happening. Does this only happen to some of us who have installed the Apex kit (myself included) or does it happen to people who havent modded as well. I'm just wondering if I loosened the pin or something when taking it out and back in.

Part 2... if I need to send this in to be fixed, would I need to reinstall the original springs? I guess if I did that, I wouldnt be able to have the Apex kit anymore... because I wouldnt reinstall it when I got it back in fear of having the same problem again.

Any advice or tips would be great! Thanks!

[3hounds]

Don't see how the kit would cause that.

The only spring that goes on the pin is the trigger return spring.

Removing and installing the pin might have made the hole ( Poly frame ) a little bigger.

If you watched the Apex vid. on how to install the kit did you notice how easy it was for him to take out the trigger pin, hell it flew out with little pressure.

Probably from taking the gun apart so many times and the poly frame wears a little every time.

I've heard about this a few times from right out of the box guns though also.

Mine actually just rotated when dry firing, after installing the kit.

I applied Loctite to both sides of trigger pin, so far so good.

I know the groove in the pin is too far off center for my trigger return spring to fit in.

Will take it out someday and cut a groove closer to center if it moves again or just make a new one.

I'd call smith customer service, they might just send you a new and improved pin if there is such a thing.

If they want the gun I'd take the spring out.

3

[J Rich]

Lets start here.


I am assuming we are taking about the pin that goes through the frame that holds the trigger in. Not the small pin that holds the upper and lower parts of the trigger together. Those small pins walk too.

First do you have the pin in correctly? The grooved area needs to be to the left side of the gun. When I put my pin in you here a loud "click". That come from the slide stop engaging in the groove area of the pin.

I would take the pin out make sure it's facing the right direction. Make sure the slide stop sits in the groove. Inspect for damage to the pin or slide stop.

[Techse7en77]

Yes, the pin is in correctly... its strange because it backed out on me the first time I shot it after the apex install. But I pushed it back in, and heard a little click (which I didnt remember hearing the first time around). I thought that click was the sound of success... and after 100 rounds, it didnt move. But then I just went back out and shot 50 rounds this past weekend... and it had came out almost half way after 25-30 rounds. I just reached up and popped it back in and it finished out just fine. But... I worry that its going to continue to happen.

[retired_diver]

Crazy glue is great for making pins slightly bigger. First warning I am not telling you to glue the pin in. Take the pin out, apply a very light coating to the circumference of the pin i.e. making it slightly fatter where it contacts the frame on both sides. Let it DRY COMPLETELY, reinstall the pin and it will now press in and stay put, but will come out with more pressure than before due to being "thicker". Problem solved.

[stringpicker]

DO NOT USE GLUE OF ANY KIND!!!!!

Stake the pin in place.

Or, undo the trigger job, take it back to factory condition, and send it back to S&W for proper repair.

Or, locate a local machine shop that can turn one for you out of stainless steel, so you don't have to worry about it corroding. Measure the pin then measure the hole. Make sure that it is a snug fit, not so tight that you have to kill it to remove it, and not so loose that it continues to fall out.

Do not, I repeat...DO NOT apply any adhesive of any kind to the pin, either in hopes of it adding to the diameter or to glue it in place.

[Smiffer]

I put the Apex kit in my SD9VE with no problems. Like J Rich said I would have guessed you had it in backwards. I believe the slide release notch holds it in place.

[Techse7en77]

Thanks for the advice... I'm considering just taking out the Apex spring and going back to stock. If I do that, could I just remove the Apex kit... and send it in unassembled? Maybe tell them that I had taken it apart to give it a deep cleaning but was unable to reassemble? Taking it apart would not void the warranty... right?

[3hounds]

Originally Posted by Techse7en77

Thanks for the advice... I'm considering just taking out the Apex spring and going back to stock. If I do that, could I just remove the Apex kit... and send it in unassembled? Maybe tell them that I had taken it apart to give it a deep cleaning but was unable to reassemble? Taking it apart would not void the warranty... right?

Call customer service and ask what can be done about the original problem.

If your not happy with the first answer call again and try to get a different rep.

Or e-mail them and see what they say.

Some don't know jack.

3

[ginzo]

Mine will be back from S&W tomm. for same issue (FS 40). Will post what was changed. I didn't really have an issue as Trigger headed pin could not leave the gun as it is behind the TDL. But S&W said not supposed to back out. So just a shade over 3 weeks later, I will see how it goes.

I do not have any modifications to my gun.

[ginzo]

Got gun back today, didn't have time to go to range. It came back as "this firearm was test fired and determined to meet factory specification. No repairs were necessary as the firearm is in proper working order". DUH, they asked for it back, I just asked if it was a problem, I was fine with the pin as it could not leave the gun at any time. I will still rate them as great on service, even though I didn't want to be with out it. I may buy a locking block and trigger headed pin from SSS just for the experience of changing it out, only about 15.00 for the parts.

Plus side is they sent a 15 round mag for free!!!

Originally Posted by ginzo

Mine will be back from S&W tomm. for same issue (FS 40). Will post what was changed. I didn't really have an issue as Trigger headed pin could not leave the gun as it is behind the TDL. But S&W said not supposed to back out. So just a shade over 3 weeks later, I will see how it goes.

I do not have any modifications to my gun.

[Techse7en77]

Ginzo... So you had the same problem where your pin was coming out? Yet, S&W didnt fix it because the problem didnt occur when they were test firing. So if I send mine in, I guess the same thing could happen... Because it doesn't happen every time. I'm having a small issue when failure to feeds too, will they not polish the ramp if it doesn't fail when they have it? Side note: the extra magazine is sweet!

[t bell]

My pin started coming out while at the range the other day too. Totally stock with maybe 300 rounds through it. I may try and call s&w to see what they suggest. But if they are only going to fire it 2 times to check it, just send me a free mag before I ship it

[ginzo]

Correct, I would not say "coming out" but "backing out" as the Take down lever prevents it from actually coming out. Would it keep backing out if TDL in different position? Maybe.

I explained it happened at range with 50 to 100 round sessions. Did they fire it that many times, probably not. I don't have any other issues with firing, eject, feed, etc.. My feed ramp polished itself so no issues there. This is my EDC, and I've grown to trust it, so I really did hope they would say no issues. Then I would have to start all over and get the confidence back it will fire if I need it to.

And yes, the mag was a nice bonus for my 3 week wait!

Originally Posted by Techse7en77

Ginzo... So you had the same problem where your pin was coming out? Yet, S&W didnt fix it because the problem didnt occur when they were test firing. So if I send mine in, I guess the same thing could happen... Because it doesn't happen every time. I'm having a small issue when failure to feeds too, will they not polish the ramp if it doesn't fail when they have it? Side note: the extra magazine is sweet!

If they say send it, I would to err on the side of safety. If you can do without it. They pay all the freight and you can get FED EX to come to your house to pick it up on S&W's dime.

I feel like that was the situation, they fired it a few times, checked it over and said good to go. The pin was not a big deal to me, they suggested sending it. The mag was a surprise, although it was a loooonnnggg 3 weeks as this is my only pistol.

If it bothers you in the future, the parts are about 15.00 to replace the locking block and pin. Some suggest locktite or super glue, but not for me. I'll just keep pushing it back when I'm done at the range. It only comes out a fraction anyway.

Originally Posted by t bell

My pin started coming out while at the range the other day too. Totally stock with maybe 300 rounds through it. I may try and call s&w to see what they suggest. But if they are only going to fire it 2 times to check it, just send me a free mag before I ship it

[Jeffersonwasright]

Originally Posted by ginzo

Some suggest locktite or super glue, but not for me. I'll just keep pushing it back when I'm done at the range. It only comes out a fraction anyway.

I'm trying to understand what's happening to everyone's guns regarding this problem. Do the pins just back out a little, so they're no longer flush, or do they actually work themselves out so far that they're in danger of falling out? I just put the Apex kit in my SD9, and I was surprised when I first reinstalled the pin. Everything was working - trigger, slide release, etc. - but nothing was holding the pin in place. I could push it all the way out from either side. After a few minutes of fiddling with it, it locked in place. Now it can't be pushed past flush in either direction, and I very much doubt it will move when the gun is fired. I don't know what finally locked the pin in place, but I have to wonder if this is related to the problem you guys are seeing.

[Techse7en77]

When I first installed the kit I noticed that too... Then I gave a little extra push (left -> right) and it "clicked", I'm assuming this is the locking in you speak ok. After that... 100 rds, no problem. I went out 2 weeks ago, and it happened again. I noticed it when the pin was sticking halfway out the left side... Maybe about 1-1.5 cm.

[Jeffersonwasright]

Is this only happening after the Apex kit is installed?

[ginzo]

I have not installed the kit, but after it came back from S&W I also used a small punch and tapped it. Did hear a click, have not been to range yet. Will update.

Originally Posted by Jeffersonwasright

I'm trying to understand what's happening to everyone's guns regarding this problem. Do the pins just back out a little, so they're no longer flush, or do they actually work themselves out so far that they're in danger of falling out? I just put the Apex kit in my SD9, and I was surprised when I first reinstalled the pin. Everything was working - trigger, slide release, etc. - but nothing was holding the pin in place. I could push it all the way out from either side. After a few minutes of fiddling with it, it locked in place. Now it can't be pushed past flush in either direction, and I very much doubt it will move when the gun is fired. I don't know what finally locked the pin in place, but I have to wonder if this is related to the problem you guys are seeing.

Originally Posted by Techse7en77

When I first installed the kit I noticed that too... Then I gave a little extra push (left -> right) and it "clicked", I'm assuming this is the locking in you speak ok. After that... 100 rds, no problem. I went out 2 weeks ago, and it happened again. I noticed it when the pin was sticking halfway out the left side... Maybe about 1-1.5 cm.

[Knuckledragger]

I had the same problem with my 40VE, the small pin holding the lower half of the pivoting trigger was backing out.

He told me he used a punch to set it, and a spot of JB Weld to secure it. This was 3 years and at least 5000 rounds ago, haven't had a problem since.

My Sigma is unmodified.

[ginzo]

Range yesterday, still backs out, not a problem for me as this is my EDC and it hasn't done anything but put rounds down range with out fail. I trust it with my life so I am not going to mess with the trigger headed pin, just tap it back that few millimeters after the range. S&W said it meets factory specs so that's fine with me.

[3hounds]

The slide lock lever is what holds the trigger and slide lock block pin in place.

What the problem is people, including me, when removing pin start to pound on the pin with a hammer.

This deforms the slide lock hole or damages the pin.

No hammer is usually needed take slide lock off, lift up and jiggle slide lock while pushing on the pin.

Mine removes a lot easier from pushing on the pin from the slide lock side, opposite from the Apex vid.

When installing pin you also have to jiggle slide lock till it clicks in place unless the hole is already damaged it won't hold.

Either get a new slide lock lever or pin.

3

[ginzo]

This was an issue from NIB. Never disassembled past field strip. Just noticed trigger pin backs into TDL after range time. Some day I might change locking block and pin, or add an apex kit, but the damn thing is so reliable, I don't want to change anything at this point. This is my EDC. I did hear it click when it came back from S&W and they gave it a clean bill of health. I just use a small pin punch to reset it in its place. Does kind of bug me but then it doesn't. I try to remember it's a tool, not a show piece. I am studying to strip it completely, but am not at that stage yet. I want to know every part and piece!

[guytgo]

Originally Posted by Techse7en77

Shot 50 more rounds through my SD40VE yesterday... and the pin started out after about 30 shots or so. What the hell man? It easily popped right back in and stayed in... but why does this keep happening. Does this only happen to some of us who have installed the Apex kit (myself included) or does it happen to people who havent modded as well. I'm just wondering if I loosened the pin or something when taking it out and back in.

Part 2... if I need to send this in to be fixed, would I need to reinstall the original springs? I guess if I did that, I wouldnt be able to have the Apex kit anymore... because I wouldnt reinstall it when I got it back in fear of having the same problem again.

Any advice or tips would be great! Thanks!

My brand new 40 VE did the same thing, I can't believe this thing came from the factory with the pin in backwards.............................

[guytgo]

My brand new 40 VE did the same thing, I can't believe it came from the factory with the pin in backwards...................