Let me preface this report with the fact that this is only the second time I have shot a handgun to amount to anything. The first time with my sd9ve I was all over the place the first two clips, then did fair the rest of the time. Since that first time I have dry fired the heck out of it and can tell some of the sponginess is gone.

This time, I was able to group a lot better, but.....

I then fired the brand new sar b6p compact I got from my wife. It's a double/single action. I blew out the bulls eye and grouped very tight. First time shooting. The trigger pull is half of what my sd9 is, in my estimation. I only paid 289 bucks for this thing, but it is a clone of the cz75. It is worth twice what I paid the way it shoots. My son shot it and it blew him away. My brother in law shot it and is gonna get him one. The only thing I don't like about it is that it is made in Turkey, and the safety is stiff. The slide rails fit inside the frame, so you don't have as much slide grab on to. That isn't a deal breaker, but it is something to consider. It has 13 plus 1 mags, and an extended 17 plus 1 that sticks out of the bottom. Extra place to put your pinky finger for those with big hands.

Conclusion: I think I can get my sdve that accurate with reduced trigger pull. My last group were within two inches apart, and one cutting the bullseye. I really love the feel of the sd9 better than the SAR, but the sar ain't far behind. So many people downgrade the SAR on some websites, but I noticed none of them owned it or had shot it. Everyone that owned one gave it good marks. I made no mistake. It's worth twice what I paid for it at my LGS imo.

So the SAR won this time. If and when I get a trigger kit (if I can make up my mind which of the 3 I want) then we'll see.

Parts availability may be an issue. Simple things such as recoil spring assemblies may take longer to get or cost more. Sounds like it's a good gun with a good fit. I have several S&W's and love their product, but on a recent trip to the LGS to purchase a Shield, I walked out with an Argentinian beauty: Bersa BP9CC. The light trigger pull on the Bersa has me spoiled. I use it for cc.

I thought about the parts. My LGS owner thinks he can get whatever I need. I hope he is right. I have heard very good things about the Bersa. It's a walther clone if I remember right. That light trigger pull makes all the accuracy difference, doesn't it?

Never shot the SAR, but have shot a few CZ 75's. I would guess that the SAR and your S&W are about equally accurate. The difference is in the trigger. It is easier to master a crisp single action trigger then it is a trigger with a longer, heavier pull. It is just a matter of practice. Like you said, your groups with the S&W improved your second time out with some dry fire practice in between.

Larry

I suspect you are right on with your assessment. Being a novice to shooting handguns, but not guns, my first reaction is to ditch the sd9ve for a single action trigger like the sar. But I'm not gonna do it. I got the sd9ve for two main reasons: I liked the way it feels in my hand, and it's a smith and wesson. Now I don't know a lot, but I know that S&W support and rep is excellent. Besides, I like a challenge. Getting there is where the fun is.

I was thinking the very same thing. I had never heard of SAR pistols, so I took a look at their website. I couldn't find any warranty information, such as how long the gun is covered (it may be there and I just couldn't find it) but I did read that only the original owner was covered, and that if you wanted service, you had to send the pistol back at your expense plus include $20 for return postage. With S&W, they pay for shipping both ways. Also, I wonder how easy it is going to be to find magazines...which is a challenge these days for any gun, it seems.

It may very well be a very good gun, but I don't think I'd be interested in one.

First: I have 4 clips for the sar. One came with it, I ordered one online, and my LGS got some in and I bought a 13 and 17 round clip from them.

You are right about the warranty, plus you have to be the original owner and prove it:
A) If the gun is a handgun and is owned by the original owner then the original owner
should send the gun back to EAA with $20.00 (return freight charge) for warranty
service. Please include all contact information including your phone number in letter
form and a copy of the purchase receipt along with the gun.

**NOTE** Please document and retain the serial number of the gun for your
records.

The owners manual, which I had to print off, says that defects in material and workmanship are covered for life for the original owner at no cost for parts or labor or replacement, according to the company's discretion of whether to fix or replace the weapon.

Not as good as Smith, but it is something.

My Mosin accepts and uses clips. I seriously doubt the SAR takes a clip. Perhaps you meant magazine?

SAR Arms is the importer / distributor for the Sarslimaz firearms group, who is one of the largest manufacturers of small arms in the world. They are based out of Turkey, and have a 125-year history of making guns of all kinds.

Locating parts isn't going to be a problem, and the company isn't going anywhere.

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Yeah, I sometimes call them clips for some reason. Never shot handguns growing up, and a magazine was something you couldn't afford, but got to read at the Boy's Club.

You sound like my two teenage sons, who are always correcting me on everything. I'll tell you like I tell them: you know what I mean.

BTW, my son has a mosin. With the recoil pad it kicks less than my .30-.30.

Well, it sounds like you are good to go...I hope you have great luck with your new pistol, and let us know how it works out in the longer term! I do like a DA/SA action pistol, and I'd been thinking about trying a CZ...I've had various other DA/SA pistols, including Beretta, Ruger, H&K, SIG, and of course S&W 2nd and 3rd generation pistols (which I wish they still made.) If it works out for you, I might end up giving the SAR a look...the price is right!

After I put 500 rounds through it, I will give another report. My son has a Ruger SR9 which he absolutely loves. It is striker fired, but a much smoother trigger pull than my sd9. But 17 round magazines are very hard to find for it without paying 50 bucks or more. The trigger pull is Not as good as the SA Sar obviously, but not bad. First time he shot it he was grouping tightly all over the bullzeye after a couple of clips, er, I mean magazines. My LGS has the sr9 for $419 plus tax.

Let me know if you get any of the above mentioned and how they operate for you.

I've had both the SR9 and SR9c. In full size models, I prefer the SR9 to the M&P9, but in compacts I prefer the M&P9c to the SR9c. My favorite of all 9mm polymer makes/models is the Shield.

I recently bought a SR45, but ended up trading it on something else. It's a good gun, but a little too big for my preference. I am hoping that Ruger comes out with a SR45c, and I'd like to see how it compares to the M&P45c.

Jest as you like, but proper terminology is key in online posts. I suggest that in addition to learning how to fire your handgun, that you also learn the proper terminologies, as it can be key in our diagnosing any issues you may have in the future.

Other definitions I suggest you learn are: FTF, FTE, squib, stovepipe, etc.

Being new to handguns, I'd expect this issue. The purpose of this site is to educate and inform. Please accept it as such.

Enjoy your new purchase, and practice safe procedures.

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Let's see: FTF, I would guess, means failure to feed, or failure to fire. FTE should mean failure to eject. Squib means no powder I presume. Stovepipe is a failure to eject that gets caught.

Let me say this, I appreciate the education I get here, but I ain't from where you are. We had the same terms growing up:

That was a dud. That round didn't eject. That round did not fire. That round jammed my gun. Around here, you would have to learn that terminology. But thanks again.

Most professions have their own terminology, especially for the tools of their trade (i.e, unique names.) For example, a surgeon would ask an OR nurse for a hemostat or a scalpel, rather than a pair of needle nose pliers or a knife; they may look and function somewhat the same, but they really are different...just as is a magazine different from a clip.

Not that participation on this forum is a "profession" but using the correct terminology does indicate one has at least some knowledge of the subject matter, and helps to differentiate the "subject matter expert" from the "layman." There are some who take it more seriously than others...but it does help to deliver the message when the message is conveyed in the correct terms.

Hopefully, we can all learn something from this forum...and in an enjoyable way.

I hear you, and I have stated that I am new to handguns. Being 58 years old, I am set in my ways to some extent and I guess I let something rub my the wrong way that possibly was not meant to do so, but it seemed sarcastic to me. Instead of saying, "I am pretty sure the SAR doesn't use a clip but my mosin does", why not just say: I saw where you grew up using long guns so I understand you used clips. In handguns, they are called mags. I would have been fine with that. But he may not have meant nothing at all, and that is why I love face to face conversation versus writing. You can tell more what a man means by looking him in the eye. But these forums allow someone like me the chance to get the opinions of some of you who have years of experience in handguns, and for that I am definitely thankful.

I'll be professional and bow out of this conversation. It's clear that there's a burr under your saddle about being taught how to properly refer to parts of your firearm.

Understand that I have over 25 years as a toolmaker, working on the development of a more than a few military weapons, am now a gunsmith, and work on these as well as other firearms daily. Proper terminology and nomenclature is important in diagnosing problems with the operation of these tools.

As I said, enjoy your new weapon, and stay safe.

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You are correct. My apologies, I have misjudged and alienated you. I should not have done that.

There are two major things that are problematic when it comes to internet forums. One, as you mentioned, it is often very difficult to determine what one actually means, since you can't read facial expressions or hear the tone of voice...and even more especially since you most likely don't know the other person well, if at all, to know his personality. The other thing is that for some reason, perhaps the lack if personal interaction, people will say things to one another on the internet that they would never say in person (I'm not saying that either one of you did.)

I used to be very active on a motorcycle forum, which had an off-topic board. Many of us had participated in the board for many years, and some even got together in meets and greets on occasion, and in varying parts of the country. It almost never failed that members who had bitter feuds on the board got along very well and enjoyed meeting one another, when they finally did so in person.

I am by nature a natural smart-aleck (my one talent) and it has caused me no end of trouble in my life. As I have gotten (much) older, I have mellowed somewhat, and also learned to control myself a little better...I try to re-read what I write to see if it truly conveys what I want to say, and use smilies as appropriate...still, I manage to post something I regret fairly often. I just try to remember that this is just an internet forum, and as Clint Eastwood said: "We aren't going to be taking warm showers together." (Heartbreak Ridge)

The written word, as easy as it is to read, is the most misunderstood of all forms of communication. You cannot read facial expressions, hear sarcasm, or understand the background of many online.

I, too, used to be a bit of a jackass online when I first began joining forums many years ago. I've met some of those from other fora that I used to think were the worst...only to find they are some of the greatest people I've ever met.

It is what it is, and the apology is accepted. No harm, no foul. The fact that you apologized speaks volumes of the type of person you are.

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This blog started with BadJuiJui mentioning his initial experiences with his SARB6 and his SD9VE. Coincidently I've got one of each and I find them both excellent pistols. I got lucky and bought my SARB6 new for $210+$40(s&h), just before the recent December panic rush. While the SARB6 is a DA/SA; it's DA is butter smooth and the SA breaks at a nice 3.5lbs. Of all the pistols & revolvers I own, I'd take the SARB6 if I was going to shoot a serious precision match. For the action type shoots, I now lean toward the SD9VE since I added a trigger spring kit and Trueglo sights. I don't recall the trigger kit brand, but it cost just over $20 on Ebay and works great. The trigger still has the long travel & reset, but is much smoother and somewhat lighter now. I've also found that any of the older Sigma series mags fit perfectly without trimming; unlike reports by some SD9VE owners. Go Figure!??! ;-)

I was just checking Gun Genie, and they do have the SAR B6 pistols in stock (FS and compact) and they are reasonably priced...maybe a little higher than local shops, but GG provides an excellent lifetime warranty, so that is worth a few dollars extra, IMO, for a gun that doesn't have a lifetime warranty from the manufacturer. They also have magazines in stock...I'm really tempted to give the SAR B6 Compact a try.

I almost got an EAA Witness, it was on my short list along the Sig 2022 in Feb when I grabbed my SD9.

I had a SP2022 in 9mm, and it was a good gun...very comfortable grip, and at the time, reasonably priced. IIRC I paid $379 for mine, a couple of years ago, NIB, and mine had night sights (but only one mag.) The prices on them have gone up now (what hasn't?) and they aren't quite the value they once were...but still a heck of a lot cheaper than the metal SIGs. The one thing I didn't like was the take down...pushing in that pin was painful! I had to use the end of a punch or end of a screw driver...why they had to make it a hollow end and sharp I'll never know. Plus, mags for them are expensive (but then, all mags are expensive these days, it seems.) All in all, a good gun, these minor quibbles aside.

I've never owned anything made by EAA.

I really looked close at the SAR while shopping for a new 9mm, I was looking for a lesser expensive pistol...I also was looking at a S&W SD9VE.. having owned a few Sigma's and a SD40 in the past ..i went the SD9VE route..I always had great luck with the Sigma in the past...I most likely order a trigger kit for the SD...I shoot alot of revolvers and shoot them quite a bit DAO ..so I'm used to the longer trigger pull ( I have a Ruger P90 that has spoiled me to a extent)

I have the full sized B6P. The slide rides inside the frame like all other CZ75 clones. This feature along with the DA/SA trigger add to the guns inherent accuracy. Magazine availability is not a problem. I have several MecGar CZ75 magazines that work perfectly in this pistol.I don't have an SD9 but I do have a 9mm Sigma.

Wolf gun springs for SW59 will work in a B6P full size, I use an 18# in mine with no problems. Tames the recoil quite well.

I just purchased my wife an EAA. It is the Witness Pavona 9mm and you're right, it doesn't compare to the Sd9ve models.

One reason is the SDVE is a double action only while the EAA/SAR are DA/SA. They also have a safety lever to deal with.

By pulling back the hammer of one of these models, it takes 1/2 to 3/4 weight off the trigger and trigger slack, from firing them.

If you do the EAA in DA mode, the pull length and weight is comparable.

The EAA is a knockoff of the CZ75 and made by Tangolio(Italy) while the SAR is a knockoff of the EAA and from Turkey and a bit cheaper.

Both well made guns with the SAR being cheaper.

I got lots of info off the CZ Clone Club and Gun Reviews by women(Beauty and Brawn with the EAA Witness Pavona) and other sites, before getting Wife a new gun that was easier to operate slide and on her arthritis.

After running 2k rounds through my SAR B6P full sized, I decided I needed the compact version. I could not be happier with these weapons. Highly recommended.

Sar Arms are great value for the money pistols (I have the Sar K2P).
SD9VE is great also. Leave the trigger alone and practice with the factory one.

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where's my thread?

Thanks for helping the OP out with the explanation of 'clip'
vs 'magazine'.

Those other terms sound cool!

So, is "FTF" failure to feed, or failure to fire?

Is "FTE" failure to extract, or failure to eject?

Does your Mosin really use an en bloc clip? How many
import lines has EAA thrown under the bus over the
years?

I friend of mine is trying to sell his Mini Cooper on Craigslist and was complaining about all the scammers who where texting him offers for his car and he didn't trust using that for selling anything. I told him I had bought and sold many times on Craigslist and didn't have problems because I didn't text and insisted on talking to the people. I didn't spend 31+ years handling fraud claims without learning how to judge people by the sound of their voice and their actions. Texting is like computer forums in that you can't judge the person making the post and it leads to fraud and misunderstandings.

S&W SD series is what it is .. The trigger is what it is.. The SD series trigger leans toward safety and self defense ... I have grown accoustomed to so different triggers over the years .. squeeze trigger , dont pull .. helps alot .. check your hand (hands) placement .. check your stance .. practice .. A person would be suprised what accuracy ,you, are capable of ...

I think using the SD9, with its longish trigger, much like a revolver, makes you better at shooting other triggers.

I like my SD9 a lot, and trust it as a self-defense pistol. (My after-market recoil spring assembly is now gone, and a new S&W factory recoil spring assembly installed). But there is no doubt the traditional double action (TDA), also called a DA/SA, is easier to shoot well in single-action mode (it should be about the same in the first shot, DA, mode). The argument that striker-fired pistol adherents use is this: every trigger pull is the same with a striker-fired pistol; you learn that, and you are good to go; whereas, with TDA, the first one is long, and the follow-ons are very light, so you have to learn two trigger strokes; and it is real easy to let the second shot go unintentionally since it is so light compared to the first long trigger pull.

But the real reason we have striker-fired pistols is that they are just a whole lot cheaper to build, so the companies prefer to make them!

The CZ family of pistols and their clones -- all of which are nominally spun off from the Browning Hi-power, although most have better triggers than the old Browning P-35 -- are pretty good guns. To me, the top dog there is the CZ-75D, with a decocker and no safety. I really prefer a pistol with a decocker (my P239 and my 3d Gen S&Ws) over a striker-fired pistols, because of that whole re-holstering thing (and "Glock Foot" or "Glock Butt"). That, and my objections to very light triggers in striker-fired pistols, in another whole story. But no doubt the SAR and other Turkish knock-offs from the CZ-75 pistols are a pretty good bargain, with a few limitations as noted above.

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S&W Rover

Myself .. Id rather have S&W backing up my purchase ....

I own the SAR b6p compact, and have had no complaint from it yet, it's a well made pistol for the money. I still want and plan to purchase a sd9 from Academy Sports. I hope the sd9 does as well as the Sar does.

I own the Tri Star C100 which is almost the exact duplicate of the B6P. I also own a SD9VE. The SD9VE WAS my favorite pistol till I bought the C100. I debated on the C100 or the B6P and choose the C100 because I like that it is an all metal firearm and uses Mec-Gar CZ compact mags that are only $19.99 (reg sales of $2.00 off) from Midway USA.