S&W will void warranty if internal parts are polished on the gun.

Also was told I should not have taken sear housing out of gun.

That is only for a S&W gunsmith to do.

Does not matter if this caused the problem with firearm or not.

WARRANTY VOIDED PERIOD.

I'm switching to a gun that has aftermarket parts available after I get mine back.

Lesson learned, buy a gun that has parts available and does not require you to send it back to the factory to have them be replaced.

A mechanically inclined monkey can tear these guns apart and replace anything on them.

How are you suppose to know how your gun works if taking it apart (and they can prove it) VOIDS WARRANTY.

I guess it all comes down to liability issues.

Thanks, 3

Good warning. The #1 reason people drop out of my IDPA matches is they "improve" their guns until they are unreliable.

And perhaps lose or damage parts?


http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-w...irst-post.html

__________________
Science plus Art

Most of the gun manufacturers will not sell restricted parts on their guns to non licensed gunsmiths. The reason is liability. If the gun is under warranty, send it back to the manufacturer for repair. When you polish parts, most of the time a little goes a long way and if you over zealous, you can ruin the part and further compound the problem. And, when it comes to sears, they can be complicated to modify or polish and you run the risk of a firearm that is unsafe. I highly recommend some type of certified gunsmithing course if you intend to work on your firearms other than routine cleaning. With the certification, the manufactures have no problem selling a part as long as you can document your qualifications to satisify their liability issue.

Nick

Good one, ya got me, I am guilty of losing sear.


Man that didn't take long, first reply BOOM headshot.

For the record, they would not even send the parts to a qualified S&W gunsmith.

I did find the sear after I hit it with the lawn mower, well pieces of it.


3

Sorry, but I have to side with S&W on this one, at least partially. You lost a vital part to the guns operation, that is not their responsibility to replace at their expense. They should have sent you a replacement though, or at the very least sent it to a gunsmith for replacement.

I was thinking of picking up another SD in 40 S.W. but I'm going to pass. I don't want a pistol that has to be sent back to the manuf. for the replacement of parts that can be accomplished by anyone that knows which end of a screwdriver to hold.

I can order a Smith and Wesson factory striker assembly for an M.P. from Brownells-what's the deal with the SD?

I'm assuming the part is replaced in exactly the same manner...

If the SD guns were more popular maybe somebody would carry parts, that's my guess.

I know S&W has not offered a parts list yet.

It sucks they won't send you or your gunsmith the parts.

I offered to buy the parts outright, no deal.

Maybe I'll get a Hi-Point, better C.S. anyhow.

3

Hope you enjoy your High Point.

well,I am mechanically inclined and I was able to polish the parts and remove the pigtail spring and put 400+ down range with no malfunctions what so ever.When my extractor eventually wears out from use then S&W is going to charge me a 100 dollars to replace that extractor?Because I polished the internals and removed a spring,so that I could have a nice trigger on my gun?Initially this gun sold me on S&W but my doubts about S&W are easily building.

I think sarcasm > you

At least the hi-point will shoot where you aim it

I was going to say I shoot my boy's Hi-Point better than my SD. I'm glad I'm not the only one. If you need parts for a Hi-Point they will send them to you FREE of charge.

yep,I actually use mine as my primary home defense weapon,the sigma shoots too low but the hipoint is dead on...I dont need rounds missing the target and going through walls.

Read your owner's manual. You will find S&W's position on "unauthorized non-factory modifications" to be crystal clear.

I don't care if they void the warranty, but sell me parts so I can fix it instead of raping me with outrageous fees.

"A mechanically inclined monkey can tear these guns apart and replace anything on them."

Really?

The purpose of your post is what? To hold S&W up to ridicule or contempt?

We all know, or at least we should know, that S&W, like any other manufacturer of firearms, or most any other product, will not provide free warranty work when an owner intentionally or negligently damages the product.

I believe it clearly says in the written materials that come with the firearm what the terms of the warranty are. Did you think they S&W was kidding?

The warranty provides as follows:

"1. Lifetime Service Policy
We will repair any defect in material or workmanship without charge to the original purchaser for as long as you own the handgun."

What you did was damage your own pistol by going beyond what is allowed of a person not trained as a factory armorer or as an S&W authorized repair station. That is not a defect in material or workmanship.

I am sorry that you broke your pistol and lost parts when you disassembled it, but it cannot be reasonably expected that S&W will provide warranty coverage for something it does not authorize.

If you think S&W is difficult to deal with, you should try SIG Sauer or HK. Glock parts are available everywhere, yes, but as a trained armorer, I assure you that they do not approve of non-trained persons taking their guns any further apart than a field strip either. Glock also will not cover damage caused by owners who screw up the pistol in the same manner.

In most LE agencies, doing work on a firearm carried for duty which goes beyond normal cleaning or field strip will subject an officer to serious discipline. There is a reason for that, and this illustrates the problem. These things are designed for life and death use, and screwing up your pistol could get you or your partner killed.

brother shoots a hi point .380 w/ a compensator. a tack driver, and flawless in operation through several 100 rounds. better trigger than my SD40VE, which will be getting an ApexTactical spring kit asap

This thread comes in a timely manner. I was considering polishing my SD40VE feed ramp. Thanks for the heads up.

You'll be should be fine polishing the feed ramp, it's not an n internal not touch part.

How did polishing the sear crack the housing? I would be fine with my warranty being voided if they would sell me the parts I need to fix it instead of raping me on smithing fees.

Shawn

About the monkey remark, the SDVE models are simple to take apart, that's all I meant.

I know what I have done to my gun, but sell me the parts, that's my problem.

I don't like sending gun back for 2 months for this.

I was upfront with S&W about what I did to it and that I lost a part.

I have no problem with them denying my warranty and I couldn't have said it any better than Short Bus Driver just did.

My gun was sent in on 6/25/13, I know they were shut down for a couple of weeks but this long for just a cracked sear housing.

If they sold me the parts, I would have a working gun in a few mins. after receiving them.

As for the Hi-Point remark, I own 2 one in 45 and another in 9mm, both house guns.

They are very good reliable house guns and C.S. is excellent.

Alright I'm going to go finish my sporter 03.

Thanks for the replies everybody, 3



Heck ship the parts to my gunsmith.

Post #16 makes several valid points.....I was a agency armorer for 30 years and have been thru about 12 different armorer's school for various mfgr's: Colt, Smith, Glock, HK,Sig, Remington, Benelli, etc......there are reasons these manufacturer's have the policies that they have, and they are all litigation/liability driven.....mostly based on past incidents, where someone blamed some negligent discharge and subsequent injuries or death on the gun and thus the manufacturer....this is one of the primary reasons that Ruger has the big "read the manual" roll stamp on their guns....In my role as an agency armorer, part of my duties were to periodically inspect all duty carry guns. If I found any that had been "tampered with, modified or had after market parts", then I was to pull the gun from service and notify my boss ( the Captain).
Again, there are a myriad of reasons for this, most liability/ litigation driven. Our modern manufacturer's turn out a good product, and they have to protect themselves, and they have have learned their lessons from past experiences & court decisions that in some cases have cost them a lot money & bad press.

As Short said, you should be fine polishing the ramp.

It helped my feeding problems with hollow points.

3

Glad to hear from someone with this type of experience.

Most police Departments are issued guns and are not allowed to carry say a gun of their choosing.

So Mr. Policeman hates the gun he gets, Trigger sucks, doesn't like trigger pull, can't shoot it well to literally save his life or others.

For whatever reason he can't shoot it well.

He polishes some parts maybe puts a different spring in it or has his personal gunsmith do some work to it.

Now he can shoot the gun well and has no problem with said gun.

What would happen in this situation, have the officer go out with a gun he can't hit **** with and leave the gun as is or find out why he did what he did ?

Would you turn him in to the Captain ?

Just curious since you have a lot of experience.

Thanks, 3

3:

I know that you have been completely up front and totally honorable and honest about what happened, and I know you even said in your other thread about this that you were not faulting S&W.

My response was not really meant for you so much as those who, despite your warning, continue to argue that they should be able to do what they want and not void their warranties.

I cannot speak for S&W, but their policy is what it is, and it doesn't do for any of the other posters to continue to gripe about it or to insist that they should be able to do what they want, so long as what they did was not the cause of the breakage.

Actually, I have appreciated so many of your posts, but I am especially impressed at the way you have handled these threads on this problem. I have always felt that you were trying to use your experience to warn others, and I think what you have done is a great service.

Best regards,

Shawn

I think you are completely missing the point. He doesn't want the work done for free (IE under warranty) he wants to purchase the part to replace himself. I don't see how a voided warranty would affect that. Its just S&W being shi*y with their parts and that is BS.


If I break it by taking it apart that's fine don't fix it for free but don't tell me its gonna take 8 hours to knock out 1 pin and replace the sear housing. Yes a "Mechanically inclined Monkey" could do that job in 3 hours with no training on how to use a hammer. Its not difficult.

Just so you are clear he wants to buy the part S&W refuses to sell the Part saying you have to be an armorer to knock out 1 pin. Then proceeds to quote him a price that includes 8 hours of labor to knock out said pin and replace sear housing, then reinstall the pin.

Be prepared to get a factory spec gun back. All polished parts and springs will be returned to factory spec.

I prefer not to send the gun in for any reason. Even if they offer to do it all for free, I would rather buy the part and have a local gunsmith install or do it my self. Less chance of it coming up missing if I never have to mail it.

I am not happy about the way S&W is handling this and will be taking this into consideration if I am ever looking at purchasing another S&W


ETA Seriously though why would it take 8 hours? I cant wrap my head around that one

To clarify my points here, I was a enforcement officer for 34 years ( performed duties and carried a gun), a instructor for 30 of those years along with being tasked as an armorer.....so I wasn't sitting in a cage somewhere just working on guns.....carried a duty gun daily, and instructed thousands of officers and troops during my career.....agencies buy guns based on several criteria....and then we the instructors get stuck with instructing them, and officer's carrying and shooting them, and armorers are tasked with keeping them serviceable....the big problem in my agency with unauthorized personnel tinkering with their service weapon is that:
A. They are violating written policy - and are thus "outside the scope of their employment".....if you know they are doing this and allow them to continue, then you are guilty of the same offense & subject to disciplinary action also.
B. And they are putting the armorer in the "trick bag" when something occurs with that firearm. A gun that is used in a shooting, a negligent discharge or any kind of discharge in my agency was "tagged and bagged" and entered the evidence chain....if the officer claimed that the weapon was at fault, it would be examined by a qualified third party....so if I had signed off on the gun and it was altered....I am liable, and get fired and sued and thrown under the bus....and believe me, the guy or gal that "tried" to improve their gun will be the first one to point at the armorer " for issuing them a screwed up gun".
C. In my real world experience, if I found the gun had been altered, then I would document it and advise the officer not to do it again....if they put me at risk again by disregarding my "counsel"....then I am going to follow written policy and protect myself.....in my profession this isn't conjecture or make believe.... when you find yourself in a wrongful death suit, under investigation for "professional wrong doing" and are subject to being fired ( losing your career), sued (losing everything you have worked for) and perhaps prosecuted ( losing your freedom)....you will understand that these administrators aren't playing.....seen it happen and have been thru several internal investigations, and it ain't fun. My job had a lot of responsibilities and like all jobs, if you don't follow your written policies & post orders, then you won't have that job for long.
From an instructor's stand point, 99% of the officer's complaints about their duty weapon, could be solved by them training and acquiring & enhancing skill sets with that particular platform.
The vast majority of officer's are not gun "enthusiasts" and only shoot when they are required to.

"The vast majority of officer's are not gun "enthusiasts" and only shoot when they are required to".

Amen. Spent years as an EMS helicopter pilot and had lots of cop buddies. Only a very few of them actually enjoyed firearms and always looked forward to the opportunity to go shooting. I'd go to the range with my shootin' cop buddies when their department was qualifying (I'd get free ammo to shoot!) and I was stunned at how many of the "regulars" totally sucked at shooting. Most of them hated going to the range and it was obvious because they were lousy shots...



Just went to the local indoor range the other day to break in a new barrel in a Kahr and had an instructor and two cops shooting a couple of lanes to my left. I was shooting at a B21 EX target at 15 yards with a Kahr CW40 and they were shooting at the full size B27 target at 7 yards with their full-sized service guns and I was smokin' them bigtime.

Changed targets and picked up the SD 9VE and put two mags in the head at 15 yards while they were missing the scoring part of the target at 10 yards...

Makes you wonder!!!

Could they pass the qualification to acquire a CCW???

Thanks loc n load for the clarification.

You hit on points I never even thought of.

Sounds like you had a very responsible career.

3

I can't find any SD parts on Brownells and they have no idea when schematics will be available for that series. It may be never, for liability reasons.

Why isn't it a liability reason for the MP??? THAT is the part of this that really hacks me big time

Opinions are like rectums, everybody's got one, here's mine...

I learned from "old timers" over a half a century ago that the best trigger/action job extant was to "shoot the hell outta the gun" they will "slick up" with usage.

__________________
NULLI SECUNDUS

I sort of took the post with a grain of salt but it's really spot on. My SD9VE is fairly new and I was only able to take it to the range a couple of times before minor heart surgery last week. Since then I have simply actuated the trigger many many times and I can clearly see that everything is getting smoother. I did lube the trigger bar/link on the frame side and that made a difference, but the most improvement came from just pulling the trigger with my right hand, which is not quarantined from lifting or pulling. Six weeks they say, but I don't think it will take that long. Will know more this week.

I certainly agree with Nick's comment about polishing sears. On my SD9VE the "sear" lowers just a little before releasing the striker. A small change in sear height, or the striker lug, would cause a big difference in trigger position required to release the striker.

I thought about polishing the striker lug, which is either cast of forged (it has what looks like a parting line, and is black). Polishing it would be immediately obvious to S&W. I'll settle for a normal wear in, it will only get smoother from here on.

On a related issue, I can't find anything on the S&W website that identifies a qualified gunsmith. Are there any authorized to do warranty repairs? Factory repairs seem to take a long time from what I see on these forums.

DAW

If you take apart the engine in your car you may void the warranty also... Manufacturers pay big bucks to their engineers to design within certain specs and have no knowledge of the expertise of the end users - consumers. Calling the factory and telling them you "lost" a part, deciding what does and does not need polishing, and making modifications drive them crazy! I have been to five different firearm manufacturers armorers schools and the instructors enjoy telling tales on consumers.

I bought my SD9VE specifically to take it apart to play with it. I did that because I did NOT want to mess with carry weapons.

It has the full Apex kit minus the striker spring and a Galloway recoil spring. It has trijicon sights, and it's internals are carefully polished.

I talked wit an S&W guy when I called to see if I could get a new slide stop. I did that because I was thinking of sending the original out to be hard chromed. It had gotten a poorly applied finish when new. I seldom send out a part that I do not have a replacement for.

The S&W guy was very pleasant. He told me that no such parts were available because the parts kits were being used for new assembly or for warranty work. But he did find me a USED slide stop from a warranty replacement gun. He said they sometimes have parts left from those. He was very helpful, he and I discussed what I was doing, and at no time did he suggest that I would be dis-owned because of my efforts.

I suspect that every warranty claim is examined carefully and decisions are made based on the individual case. If a part had been damaged by improper "improvement", I'm sure the warranty claim would be rejected. But I seriously doubt whether we can make a blanket statement that polishing parts would automatically void any warranty claim. I think such assertions may be wrong.

Just a quick follow up on what I did to my SD9VE. I mentioned that putting grease between the trigger bar and the frame smoothed out the trigger pull considerably.

Since then I had a little down time so I polished the outside of the trigger bar by putting a piece of very fine sand paper between the frame and the bar and pulling the trigger a few times while putting a little pressure on the bar itself. I then cleaned that area by sliding clean paper into the same area, and then applied a little grease.

I also did a very minor polish to the front prong on the trigger bar, the prong that moves the striker safety plunger up when the trigger is pulled. I also lubed that prong and the plunger itself.

Bottom line is that the trigger pull is silky smooth with that minimal effort There is about 1/8" take up when the trigger bar moves to contact the sear, but that is not an issue, it's part of the gun design. (Some folks may interpret that as "not smooth" but it is really just a mechanical fact.)

So, my suggestion, if you have a new SD-VE series and want to get a maximum result for minimum work, give it a try. S&W surely can't complain if you do that to clean up the rough edges of a stamped part.

I'd be interested in seeing what others experience if they try that. Just be sure to use a few sheets of paper to clean the area after polishing and before applying grease.

By the way, as someone pointed out, you can see the interaction between that front prong and the striker blocker by looking up from the bottom of the frame with the magazine removed. Just use a flashlight. You will see that the prong hits the edge of the safety plunger but that is normal and when the trigger pull is complete, the prong is safely over the end of the blocker plunger.

I took a little 1200 grit wet/dry paper and did just a light smoothing of the tab that pushes on the striker safety plunger. Just barely more than finger pressure. Plus I ever so slightly bent the tab more toward the center of the mag well because it was hitting the plunger just off center. But I won't touch the hook on the striker or where it releases. I'm happy right where it is...

L8R,
Matt

__________________
SD40-VE owner and proud of it!

I firmly agree with not touching the "Sear" or the striker lug. The Sear movement to release the striker is minimal and a little change would go a long way. At least one other person has reported bending that tab. I considered it but it seemed to me that it could increase the pressure of the trigger bar against the frame.

Do you see or feel the frame move when you pull the trigger, even when the striker is not engaged?

It was pushing out a little when I was pulling the trigger. That's when I looked in the mag well and saw the tab was hitting the plunger off center. It still moves now, but barely at all...

L8R,
Matt

__________________
SD40-VE owner and proud of it!

Could it have anything to do with the lawsuit from Gaston over the Sigma line copying his pistol to closely?

Ok...my $.02 .

1- A law enforcement agency has FAR more exposure when something happens. The news media and local government get involved because an accidental shooting is big news, and can literally destroy a town ( think Ferguson without justification ). Something like police officer A deciding to polish a couple things and change a spring could lead to loss of job for the officer as well as loss of freedom. EVEN IF the changes the officer made had nothing to do with the discharge of the firearm.

2- In a self defense situation, ANYTHING that a prosecutor can look to to make you look like more of a careless gun owner ( in the event that he or she decides to press charges ) is difficult to counter. Remember,your jury may or may not be gun owners or even like guns. The experts tell us to only use factory self defense ammo. The same would apply to " customization " by someone that is not trained to do so ( no matter how mechanically inclined you may be ). If you reload, STILL use only factory self defense rounds, and if you've done a lot of polishing and changed internal parts, keep it to yourself. They will try to paint you poorly any way they can to get a conviction.

3- Smith and Wesson doesn't look at you and think you're any more or less mechanically inclined than any other customer. What they see is a LIABILITY. They see someone who has decided to modify his S&W handgun. PERIOD. And for them that is a nightmare. Because so many " BUBBA" gunsmiths have come before you that have had good intentions, and someone got hurt. And then they've gotten sued.And sued.And sued.They are SURE that you've tried to change your handguns inner workings in some way that they didn't approve of. More than likely, the 8 hours is for them to completely disassemble the weapon and do a thorough inspection to make sure nothing else was modified. Because of the litigious ( lawsuit happy ) world we live in today, I don't necessarily blame them.

__________________
1st smiles,lies.Last,gunfire.

Others here will know more than I but at least one suit has been settled by payment of a significant sum. I think perhaps there is a royalty agreement also.

It seems to me that if you need some obscure info about your SD you can often find it by looking up a similar Glock. So far the main difference between the two lines seems to lie in the sear details, including (I think) that the SD line partially cocks the striker during recoil.

It does seem to me that some parts of the SD series are stronger than a similar Glock. I find both gun series somewhat lightweight but they must be strong enough to be safe. My last pistol was a .38 from Italy, sold when moving from La Jolla. Before that I had use of a classic 1911A, both .45 and .22. models, all very sturdy guns.

I wanted to buy a 1911 from Terry Tussey, but house payments and living expenses come first.

Tussey Custom - Custom pistols with distinctive appearance and innovative design!

One last comment - I really haven't found out why trigger pull bulges the frame on my SD.

And the beat goes on.

If your frame moves, or your safety plunger is hitting off center, this is how i fixed mine. i bought a reduced plunger spring, from galloway precision it is just slightly reduced but the frame does not move plunger gets hit dead center, and the trigger is a lot nicer, just a few $ made a big difference. stan58

So that explains why there are no parts. Hopefully all the SD guns they are assembling will create a market for spares. I would sure like to have a spare striker assembly on hand.

__________________
Jackdaddy63
SD9VE, Model 10-4

Yes, the folks at Bass Pro said S&W is running full out, producing 300 SD models per day. That's a lot of parts when you consider that some parts have to be held for in-house warranty repair.

My frame bulges out perceptibly on the right side, right along where the trigger bar is, when you pull the trigger with the striker not cocked and no rounds in the gun. You can see and feel it. As well as I can observe the trigger bar is not doing it, but on the other hand, putting grease between the trigger bar/extension and the frame really smoothed up the trigger action.

The recoil spring is not yet involved as far as I can tell.

I replaced the safty plunger spring,not the recoil spring and s&w cs says they will not send out the whole striker assemble.

When a service rep is told this and that was polished and parts are lost, what else would you expect?