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Old 11-03-2013, 04:13 PM
ika'ika ika'ika is offline
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Default sd40 ve.... how do they do it?
A couple months ago I purchased the sd40 ve for 330 out the door. Purchased this for home defense. The reviews were mostly good. I haven't had any of the feeding issues I've read about.

I've shot in the neighborhood of 1000 rounds of various ammo. Cheap steel case. Expensive HP's. And everything in between. Including some pretty hot reloads my buddy does. I've had not one single issue. I've had 2. exactly 2, ft-fire. One was Tula steel. The other was a reload. Had nothing to do with the gun.

My question is... how can S&W produce such a fine weapon at such a low price? I mean this gun preforms as good or better than some that cost three times the price. And you get the lifetime warranty just in case it doesn't.

If Smith can do it, why cant others? I know its not the most elegant... and I haven't seen the 100,000 round torture tests like you find for glocks. But Smith did something very nice with this gun.

Just my opinon
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:19 PM
Ds98formula Ds98formula is offline
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Good gun from a good company. I love my sd9ve. Just bought my wife a m&p 40 too.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:34 PM
hmbiohazard hmbiohazard is offline
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how they do it...
plastic guide rod
stamped steel slide release
no safety

they cut some corners to get the price where it is, but for the money is for sure worth every penny. i love my SD40 VE. its become my #1 carry gun
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Old 11-04-2013, 04:01 PM
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Most of the tooling for the old SW9/40VE is used on the SD9/40VE. A lot of the parts are the same, as well. Not all, but a bunch, nontheless. Better shaped frame, better shaped slide, better sear lockwork. As much as people hate the old SW9/40VE for it stiff trigger pull, it was a good system once it got de-bugged. The original SIGMA did have around a 5lb pull. State of Mass. ruined that w/ a 10lb trigger pull law, IIRC.
So for the most part, S&W didn't have to change a lot to make the SD. And, I agree, they are damn good pistols for the money.
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Old 11-04-2013, 05:51 PM
hmbiohazard hmbiohazard is offline
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Originally Posted by Ofc.JL View Post
Most of the tooling for the old SW9/40VE is used on the SD9/40VE. A lot of the parts are the same, as well. Not all, but a bunch, nontheless. Better shaped frame, better shaped slide, better sear lockwork. As much as people hate the old SW9/40VE for it stiff trigger pull, it was a good system once it got de-bugged. The original SIGMA did have around a 5lb pull. State of Mass. ruined that w/ a 10lb trigger pull law, IIRC.
So for the most part, S&W didn't have to change a lot to make the SD. And, I agree, they are damn good pistols for the money.
the bang for the buck is not often seen in this price range. it blows hi points away imho.
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:46 PM
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I wish they would make a SD9M so i can have one that fits in my pocket like the SW9M but with the reliability and looks of the SD series -YUMMY-
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:53 PM
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Very simple. Your experience is a sample of one. As you can see most complain about feeding issues. Most people who do high round shooting run into more problems then with otger guns. When I say high round count I mean your 1000 rounds would be done on one day as a reliability test. If you shoot 3k rounds a year you wont find a problem with most guns

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Old 11-04-2013, 07:13 PM
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I own the sd40ve. Just came in from the range, it held its own against guns twice its cost. I am very happy with mine, it does carry the Apex spring kit, trigger, and mag extensions. Wonderful upgrades that have made this firearm stand it's own in a line of many. And, while were on round count, we put 850 down range just today, and we try to go at least once or more every 6-8 weeks.

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Old 11-05-2013, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmbiohazard View Post
the bang for the buck is not often seen in this price range. it blows hi points away imho.
Your comparison is like people comparing Glock to the SD line. I for one own a hi-point and have had 0 issues with feeding, firing, or ejection. Just yesterday i had 3 light strikes with my SD40 and it really don't seem to like UMC 180gr because it usually jams up on the first round.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:41 AM
raymo2u raymo2u is offline
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I have just about 8700 rounds down the pipe of one of 3 of my SD's, it seems the only time it has a failure its ammo related or extemely dirty and needs some lube. Other than that all of mine run flawless and i would put it up against any of my other guns in a function drill and test.

I am a avid shooter and shoot between 500-2000rds every weekend, but i keep proving everytime my SD is a trooper and can stand its ground with guns people praise without thought.

Light strikes? Apex spring kit installed? Im guessing the primers were harder than they shouldve been due to quality control but i could be wrong-ive only experienced this with hard primer reloads and wolf and TULammo

All in all its a great low priced gun which people should respect and given that its a copy of a pistol that goes for much more, maybe people should raise their standards and expect even more from the glock when S&W is making the same great product for cheaper

thakingcb7-for your feeding/jamming issues try polishing your internals and your feed ramp, this may be the only thing your pisol needs to run a perfect play as the umc FMJ bullet may be getting caught on rough grain of the feed ramp. If not try a different ammo, i just picked up some 9mm umc 115grn from Dicks 250rnds for $9.98 yesterday, was hoping they would be a good target load as the sale has made them really cheap. If not ill stick too WWB and Armscor 124grn- the SD's seem to really like the 124grn loads and armscor seem to load them hotter than most manufacturers.
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Old 11-05-2013, 10:00 AM
thakingcb7 thakingcb7 is offline
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Feed ramp is polished to that lovely mirror shine that everybody loves so much. The only times i EVER experienced any problem with this firearm was while using UMC. It just don't like it... Plain and simple. My previous comment was just to reference the fact that without any polishing or any other work... My "junk" hi-point has given me 0 issues with any ammo i jammed down its throat. I just hate seeing people act like they are the worse pistol ever without ever owning or shooting one. Its exactly like all the Glock fan boys giving the SD line a bad rep because it cost half the price.
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:10 AM
raymo2u raymo2u is offline
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You wont be recieving the same enlightenment at the SD thread for the hipoints as you feel, my experiences with them were as pleasent as my jiminez, my Bryco, my Jennings, and some cobra's. The lower end guns are bought often and the QC on them really arent all there, its a hit or miss game. But the point of the thread is to ask how is it that S&W puts out a pretty reliable firearm that most people have bought-have had little or no issues and still be priced so well? Right??

Ive noticed on the umc compared to the other ammo i have collected and kept 2-5 shells from, the OAL is ahorter than most hollow points-which for a FMJ is pretty astounding. I have yet to try it myself and will shortly but being shorter and the end being pointed thinner than a wider hollowpoint seems to be a cause for concern, but i could be wrong
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:23 PM
ika'ika ika'ika is offline
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Most of you understood my post. It was mainly to compare to glocks. A very similar weapon foe 200 or more, less dinero. Pretty sweet. I still want to see torture tests.

I don't personally like glocks. I know they are tough and reliable. But the grip angle doesn't work for me. And most of the people I know that own glocks. Do so for home defense. The go to the range once a month or so, and that's it. So for people in that position what's better the glock, or sd? You know my answer... what's yours?
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:58 PM
hmbiohazard hmbiohazard is offline
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i was assigned a glock 22. ive carried it on duty for many years after i came out of the military. i was then assigned a glock 23. i have carried and still do carry on duty for the past 1.5 years. honestly i like my SD40 VE better. i find myself favoring it at the range. i take all 3 with me and typically 500-1000 rounds. the SD gets more action than the glocks
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:18 PM
raymo2u raymo2u is offline
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I own a g17/19/26 and a 30sf. They are all 3rd gen except the 19 (4th gen). I almost bought the Robar Alloy Extreme for a different grip style, it being aluminum, and its features but i didnt end up getting it, i found it a little pricey for the small differences. though the glocks i do want is the 380 and a 17l in 10mm

This was just for informational purposes showing that i do not only own SD's and preach them skyhigh but have other guns i compare function and feature with, though my opinion is my own.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:20 PM
hmbiohazard hmbiohazard is offline
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im the same ray. i own many firearms in many calibers. i find myself showing favoritism for my SD40
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:35 PM
raymo2u raymo2u is offline
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Exactly right, but with a few exceptions like my Les Baer Boss and my new STI Lawman 3.0 (still function testing but its my favorite gun!). I love all my guns but theres just something about the SD that gets me and makes me want to take it out more thsn the others
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ika'ika View Post
....

My question is... how can S&W produce such a fine weapon at such a low price? I mean this gun preforms as good or better than some that cost three times the price. And you get the lifetime warranty just in case it doesn't.

If Smith can do it, why cant others? I know its not the most elegant... and I haven't seen the 100,000 round torture tests like you find for glocks. But Smith did something very nice with this gun.
Actually the question is, why are most all other polymer guns so overpriced? A while ago I was listening on the radio to a review of a book that had come out called "Glock: The Rise of America's Gun" by Paul Barrett. I haven't read the book so this is secondhand, but they said that Glocks are a LOT cheaper to build than what they sell for. When they started competing for police contracts they didn't price them as low as they could, just low enough to win and have made tons of money. Gaston Glock knew that a "plastic" gun at half the price of a metal one would be regarded as cheap junk regardless of its real merits, so he priced it high enough to imply "quality".

Seems to have worked, so that has given everyone else license to charge high prices for inexpensively produced guns.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:34 PM
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Glocks are made for less than what a used hipoint 380 sells for

Dont laugh it is true, the glock 17 cost less than $70 complete excluding assembly
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:52 AM
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yes i was assigned my glocks so i didnt pay for them. even so when im not on duty i love my sd and its become my go to carry
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:32 PM
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I have owned a Glock 19 4 Gen and hated it the grip was just to uncomfortable for me and it had ejection and feed issues, after putting up with it for a while I sold it and purchased my SD40VE and have enjoyed it very much although I have not shot it as much as I like due to price of ammo, I did save up enough to buy a M&P 40 Shield which I carry all the time, the SD was just a little large and now is in the night stand. Point being I would have the SD over the Glock anyday, as for their high price, they have to find some way to pay R. Lee Ermey to shill for them.

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Old 11-16-2013, 12:07 AM
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My question is... how can S&W produce such a fine weapon at such a low price?
I own a SD9 and love it, but it does have its shortcomings. In addition to those already mentioned, the polymer frame isn't exactly the best. With the slide removed, I can bend it by hand about a quarter inch in every direction, which makes me dread what might happen if I left the pistol in my car with the windows rolled up on a hot summer day. I think the material leaves much to be desired in terms of rigidity, but it is extremely light, which makes it great for carry.

Another way the company saves money on the new VE guns is by deleting the front night sight and not bluing the slide. I consider myself lucky to have snagged one while the slides were still blued. Also, I'm happy to say that my SD9 is one of the few "cheap" pistols I've ever owned that didn't need any initial fitting or filing whatsoever. The first time I took it apart, I couldn't find a single burr, rough edge or machine mark anywhere. (My Taurus, on the other hand, required many hours of fitting before it ran smoothly.)

With the addition of a Hogue grip sleeve and a spring kit from Apex, my SD9 seems as capable as any other striker-fired pistol. I'd be happier, though, if the frame weren't quite so "rubbery". JMHO
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Old 11-16-2013, 12:14 AM
raymo2u raymo2u is offline
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My frame doesnt bend at all, i would call s&w about that. Mine feels about on par with my glocks and better then my keltecs

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Old 11-16-2013, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
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Actually the question is, why are most all other polymer guns so overpriced? A while ago I was listening on the radio to a review of a book that had come out called "Glock: The Rise of America's Gun" by Paul Barrett. I haven't read the book so this is secondhand, but they said that Glocks are a LOT cheaper to build than what they sell for. When they started competing for police contracts they didn't price them as low as they could, just low enough to win and have made tons of money. Gaston Glock knew that a "plastic" gun at half the price of a metal one would be regarded as cheap junk regardless of its real merits, so he priced it high enough to imply "quality".
I have long suspected this to be true, it's good to actually see it in black & white. Thanks for posting.
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Old 11-16-2013, 12:23 AM
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My frame doesnt bend at all, i would call s&w about that. Mine feels about on par with my glocks and better then my keltecs.
I work out. I can't find it in print, but I suspect the polymer isn't glass-reinforced. It feels almost toy-like compared to my Glock and XDM frames.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't plan to call S&W unless the frame actually breaks.
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Old 11-16-2013, 12:28 AM
raymo2u raymo2u is offline
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I think you have a dud frame bud, but if you plan on using it knowing that it might fail i hope you have good insurance. I know if any gun i owned had any problem it would not be used until it was fixed or replaced, ive seen enough to know better, but your choice is your choice and if you think its ok to take it out then by all means.

They are Glass-filled Nylon frames-which i wish they were made of delrin instead but the price would be much higher

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Old 11-16-2013, 02:26 AM
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I don't think I have a "dud", bud, I think my frame is just like everyone else's. I'll post a video when I have time.

Meanwhile, could you please post a link to something that says the frame is made of glass-filled nylon? Thanks.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:34 PM
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I second all positive comments about the SD9VE. Mine is so reliable that it is my primary carry/home defense gun.What I love the best is that there is no safety to worry about when in harm's way. Besides, I never carry a round in the chamber, but with one quick slide pull, I'm ready for business.
Best gun for the price and is on par with my Ruger P95 and Remington 1911 R1.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:13 AM
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Academy Sports has them even righter! Was in there today. They've got both flavors $289.99 plus tax. What a deal! Don't need a 9 or a .40, but if I did I'd be all over one, or both, like stink on rice, er white on grits...................oh, you know what I mean!

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Academy - Smith & Wesson SD40VE New Sigma Series .40 Pistol
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:05 AM
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The "strength" of a polymer to withstand critical fracturing or permanent deformation shouldn't be directly compared to it's flexural properties alone, nor should anyone take the fact that it can be temporarily deformed slightly under moderate acute stresses as a sign of weakness. Trust me, if polymers were as rigid and unforgiving as most people think they should be, they would be terrible materials for a platform with such violent vibration and torsion such as a firearm. Rigid polymers would be brittle....think of a material like graphite, its extremely hard. Anyone want to have a graphite-framed gun? What a good polymer for a gun frame has in spades is "toughness" not "hardness". They can last a long time and still retain their shape after massive amounts of shearing and impact force regardless of the time axis length and have a very high resistance to permanent deformation and impact forces.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:45 PM
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I would expect any poly frame to do that much flexing especially w/o the mag and slide assembled. They both add stiffness to the complete package.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:24 AM
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The "strength" of a polymer to withstand critical fracturing or permanent deformation shouldn't be directly compared to it's flexural properties alone, nor should anyone take the fact that it can be temporarily deformed slightly under moderate acute stresses as a sign of weakness.
I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd still be happier if the SD frame were as rigid (stable) as the M&P frame. I like my SD pistol and there's definitely more right than wrong with it, but I'm still leery about leaving it in my car on a hot summer day. JMO
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:42 AM
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I would expect any poly frame to do that much flexing especially w/o the mag and slide assembled.
They don't. A friend brought his M&P over so we could compare it to my SD in detail, and we both noticed that the SD frame was almost toylike by comparison.

I think a couple of folks are mistaking my observations for complaints. This isn't a SD bashing thread, it's a "how do they sell it so cheap" thread and I'm contributing. Sorry if I've ruffled a few feathers in the process.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:49 AM
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I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd still be happier if the SD frame were as rigid (stable) as the M&P frame.
I've owned a number of M&Ps, and they are good guns, no doubt...but one thing that many of them had, and this is more pronounced in the full size guns, was that the dust cover had a very noticeable down slant to it, so that it appears slanted away from the slide. I could press it upward into alignment with no more than finger tension (and believe me, I'm no Charles Atlas.) I've also seen them that way in gun shops, so it wasn't just mine.

I think it would take a lot more than the temp that would be reached in a car on a hot day to hurt the frame. I've read that with Glocks, you could cure the infamous "pig nose" by boiling the frame until it was soft enough to bend...I don't know, I've never tried it. Boiling water is a lot hotter than the inside of a car...water boils at 212 degrees F (at sea level) so it would take that temp to heat the frame sufficiently to bend it. I doubt a car interior is going to get that hot...and if it does, a lot of the car is going to be melting too.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:07 PM
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Opinions are like rectums, everybody's got one & here's mine...

Having owned GLOCKS since their arrival here in 1986/87 I feel the S&W SD9VE is every bit as well made and would survive the same ammount of high volume usage.

Gun companies (like everyone else) are in business to make a profit. If you think their profit margins are high, check out the profit margins of funiture & jewlery stores which range from 100%-1000%.

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Old 01-21-2014, 02:32 PM
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Must admit that I am intrigued by the SD9VE and I suspect it will be my next new S&W handgun buy. Living in Massachusetts, we can only buy the MA-compliant version from a dealer... meaning a 10+ pound trigger pull and 10-round magazine. The 10-round magazine doesn't bother me so much, but the 10+ pound trigger will have to be fixed (adding ~$100 +/- to the cost of every new handgun purchased in MA). The added cost of fixing the horrible MA trigger, via Apex kit or trusted gunsmith, makes any such gun more expensive to buy, but it is particularly harsh when the gun itself is only $300 and change. That's a 30% or more "tax" just because I happen to live in an anti-gunowner nanny state.

I just wish the new SD9VE still had a blued slide like the old SD9. Being a traditionalist, that really bugs me. I am not into the look of two-tone handguns at all. All blue... fine. All brushed stainless... fine. But mix the two together and I just don't get it.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:52 PM
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I just wish the new SD9VE still had a blued slide like the old SD9. Being a traditionalist, that really bugs me. I am not into the look of two-tone handguns at all. All blue... fine. All brushed stainless... fine. But mix the two together and I just don't get it.
I agree with you on the color scheme. Most polymer handguns have a black frame, but other colors do exist in factory configuration. I remember at one time the OD green frames were not much desired and were much cheaper...now, they command a premium. Of course, you can always have a frame "colored" with an aftermarket treatment, and you can have a slide treated as well. It would be nice if S&W offered the SDVE series in both stainless and nitride slide. Ruger, for example, makes the SR series in both stainless and black slide.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:56 PM
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Lol, this forum cracks me up. How dare you mention another gun brand!!! So much hate. Regardless I totally regret selling my SD9VE. And as soon as I see one under 330 I'm buying it. Great pistol!


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  #40  
Old 01-21-2014, 03:00 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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The SDVE Series are under rated, often criticized and much better than the relatively few complaints you read, especially when you take into account how many they sell and how few complaints there are about these pistols.

In my opinion, the SDVE Series, especially in 9mm with good ammo, makes an almost ideal self- or home-defense gun for ANYONE - afficionado or not. Expert or beginner.

The SIGMA was designed to mimic the DAO Model 64 in trigger reach and the straight through 10 pound trigger pull. At the time of its development, the Glock had really caught on, but back then, many still distrusted its partially cocked striker and 5 or 6 pound trigger pull.

The SIGMA (and subsequent SWVE and now SDVE Series) were designed to bring revolver-like simplicity with a trigger more resembling a DAO revolver than a single action auto type of trigger.

The biggest complaint about the SWVE models was the heavy trigger, now corrected on the SDVE Series.

Everyone should own a few of these SDVE pistols!
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:30 PM
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Everyone should own a few of these SDVE pistols!
I've thought about buying a SD40VE, since I can find that ammo, while 9mm is still very scarce around here. What I really wish is that S&W would make a SD45VE!
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:57 PM
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I love my SD40VE. I have had it a year and 6 or 8 hundred rounds of ammo. No complaints. I like it so much, I'm saving up for a M&P 40.
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  #43  
Old 01-24-2014, 02:31 AM
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Default I have a few pistols. Mostly Smith and Wesson
SD's excellent fit and finish , great shooter and most of all natural feel in hand. I use to like Glock alot . But now They feel like a bar of soap in my hand . I now have 3 SD pistols and 2 M&P pistols. Smith & Wesson keep up the great work.
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:37 AM
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...I totally regret selling my SD9VE. And as soon as I see one under 330 I'm buying it. Great pistol!

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Here's your chance!

Academy has them $289+tax right now! 9's or 40's
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:38 AM
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Here's your chance!

Academy has them $289+tax right now! 9's or 40's
You my friend are a good man. Thank you!!!!

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