Need some help with this. I am shooting tight groups with a .357 snubbie, but I'm getting shots all over the place with a new SD9-VE.

Any tips on what I can do different, or is this just the gun? I know I've been also having a problem with the slide not going back after shooting the last round. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

Thanks,

Greg

Are you new to semi autos?

Slide not going all the way back could be what's called limp wristing. That's where you don't hold the gun tight enough so the frame moves back and forth a little in your grip. It could be a just a tiny bit but it'd enough not to let the slide lock back because it's following the slide. Or you may be touching the slide with your finger just enough to slow it down

Revolvers and semi autos have different triggers and different grips. You may need to readjust your grip.

You just need to get familiar and comfortable with the pistol. It is a totally different animal than a revolver. Dry firing at home to get used to the trigger, and to work on sight picture and sight alignment will help when you go to the range for live fire practice. Work on the basics, and you will find yourself improving steadily. I shoot all new handguns from a steady rest to start; this gives me trigger familiarity and shows me what POA/POI are with different loads. Once I know the basics I work from there. Different brands of ammo, along with different bullet weights will affect accuracy also. If using 115 gr. FMJ, try some 124 gr. and 147 gr. and see if there is any noticeable improvements. Be safe and have fun :-)

See it a bit at the range as well,
I wont go into all the shooting fundamentals, just a small tid-bit about target range sessions:

- Always start out with some dry firing, not too slow of a trigger squeeze as to be unrealistic and not too fast as to yank or pull the trigger.

- Set an amount of ammo you are going to shoot and match that to a simple drill. Don't just pull the trigger and make the gun go bang until you have no more ammo left. Like weight lifting or running, do a warm up before you judge yourself. My warm up is 3xmags slow and concise of 3 shots, reset, 3 shots...all the way through 3 mags. 9 times out of ten, 1st mag aint so hot, 2 mag is better with 3rd being the groups that are the winners.

- Then I will move on to double taps, multiple target aquisition, or other drills. Point being, come up with a simple "shot card".

- I usually start out at the 5yd, 7yd, 10yd. If it's a bad day and I'm not working the fundamentals properly, it is usually a waste of ammo if I try to push out to the 10 15 or strain for the 25yd.

*If your doing something wrong and don't adjust your technique or find out what's wrong, your just making loud bangs and not working to improve the problem.

Good luck, your on the right path if you've identified that your groups are not up to par, lotsa peeps think just making the gun go bang is good training.

Give it some time and practice more. Sometimes it takes time to get used to a trigger... keep your head up

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Jorge

Sorry guys, I am not a newbie to semi-autos or to shooting fundamentals. Thanks for your responses anyway.

Greg

Are you able to see where the gun is aimed when it fires? If not, try pulling the trigger more slowly while watching the sights. Don't anticipate when the gun will fire, just let it happen.

OKFC05 has proven mathematically that the bullets go where the gun is pointed when it fires. There is a very tiny change in gun position between the time it fires and the bullet leaves the barrel. He has also done the "Gun on a string" test, proving that freely floating gun sends it's bullets where the gun is pointed at the time it fires, incredibly close to the aim point.

Stop worrying about your grip and concentrate on not anticipating when the gun will fire.

First to verify an issue exists, have another fellow firearms enthusiast who has good marksmanship fundamentals shoot the pistol. Use factory 115gr FMJ's. Once the issue is verified, I'd e-mail S&W customer support. Give them some context:

• How long you've been a firearms enthusiast (short).
• Pistol model & purchase date
• Ammo specs used.
• Issues you are experiencing and that they were verified by another skilled marksman.

The best part of owning a S&W firearm purchased new (I assume yours is new) is the 1 year factory warranty, then lifetime service policy. Talk to S&W CS to ask for a shipping label so that S&W can inspect the pistol and remedy the issues.

Otherwise, mine doesn't shoot all over the place. Sights are dead on. As long as I hold up my end of the marksmanship equation, the pistol is both precise and accurate when using decent factory ammunition (WWB, Federal Champion, CCI Blazer, etc)

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-John

Greg,

You may be limp wristing your pistol, but I think that it could possibly be your pistol. You might find it beneficial to shoot a few clips for accuracy over a rest. Try to isolate or eliminate the variables!

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Judge control not gun control!

Limp Wristing has nothing to do with shot placement. It affects slide action. Here is the definition found in several sources-

"Limp wristing is a phenomenon commonly encountered by semiautomatic pistol shooters, where the shooter's grip is not firm enough and the wrist is not held firm/straight enough to keep the frame of the firearm from traveling rearward while the bolt or slide of the pistol cycles."

Check this 1000 frame-per-second video-(Both videos work well in full frame so I suggest you select that size)


(There seem to be several videos linked together here so skip to the next video below which has a detailed discussion and demonstration.)

You have a couple things here that you need to distinguish the differences between that I don't believe to be limp wristing.

One is a revolver, be it stubby or 12" long barrel, will have a fixed barrel, so they will always shoot a little better over a semiautomatic---unless you have a custom hand fitted semi, but those will cost well $1500 and up. Although, a revolver still likes certain ammo to shoot it's best, it doesn't worry about extraction problems or chamber jams of stove piping/double feeds.

Two, is for 2 kinds of semiautomatic pistols. One is blowback where the barrel can be fixed like a Hi-Point, but quite accurate, and the other is a "locked-breech" type semi like the S&W SD9VE and it's variations and models.

A locked-breech will have a floating barrel that when slide unlocks it will drop the rear of barrel while same time tilting barrel tip up to do extraction of spent case and insertion of new round.

A semi will also give you a double recoil. You'll have the upwards/rearward recoil when firing a round like a revolver, but then you'll get the slide slamming forward when it chambers a new round that will want to drop the nose, so the wrist(s) need that extra umph to hold and counter for the reaction, whether you use only one hand or both when firing.

What I think you're having is ammo that is just on the verge of "almost" enough powder in case for some, but not in the other ammo. Thus, the slide not locking back on some last rounds in mag, while not others. The slide is at the stage of short stroking, but not on all rounds, but just long enough to keep grabbing that next round in mag. More shooting and you'll build up enough residue powders that you will get confirmed short strokes and jams.

This is also, for if you inspect and find that nothing is bent or broken or out of ordinary, for how it should work.

I would try some different ammos. I've had good luck with Blazer(brass 115 FMJ), Remington UMC 115 FMJ, TulAmmo (steel case 115 FMJ), WWB(brass 115 FMJ). I just use off the shelf ammos and haven't tried any heavier bullet grains or P+ and such. Each one does shoot differently, but they work in mine.

It's like you and your friends going to get burgers. You all like them, but you don't like onions on yours, one friend wants cheese, one doesn't like pickles or ketchup, one only wants a patty between the buns. You see, it's still a burger, but it's different to everybody as to how they like them.

Guns are same, as to ammos used, to how they react with that ammo---either good, target, P+, bad, brass, steel, best, or don't purchase anymore no matter how cheap a bargain. Results will either be near/within bullseye or all over target.

One thing about these model of gun, is the trigger. They don't like fast shooting as you jerk. They like slower pulls for the smoothness, and only time with them will help in the practice---once you find ammo it likes and others that will work as backup ammo.

I've done some double taps with mine, and it's not what I would call good, but for a bad guy, it's still a whole lot of hurt at 20-25 feet. Well around the 7yd of a CCW permit passing. So, until the danger is DRT, I still have a few rounds until empty.

Also, I see you're a Police Officer----Keep it safe and watch your 6.

Shooting Single Action with the .357?

Double action with the .357, and a polymer frame Taurus at that. The only reason I prefaced my post with that information was to throw out the hint I had some passing familiarity with firearms and we shot the snubby the same day, so I wasn't sick or having an off day.

I won't go into long details, but my fundamentals with revolvers or semi-autos are fine. The firearm I bought for my 30 year old son and he was having trouble hitting anything. I tried it and found the same. If you are getting wacky shot placement at 10 yards, and doing everything right, something is wrong.

I cleaned it last night and noticed the rails are canted about 1/8th of an inch to the left. I contacted S&W and am waiting for their reply. So anyway thank all you for responding. This is my first go round on a firearms forum. Some of you had useful advice, and some of you reinforced for me that I shouldn't question my shooting skills. There are some slight differences in shooting a semi-auto and a revolver, but not that much when it comes down to the basics of body placement, grip, site alignment, breath control and trigger squeeze.

The combination of the slide not locking back and the inconsistent groups suggests an ammunition issue. If you tried more than one load with the same result, or you have another 9 mm in which this load functioned and grouped normally, I agree the solution is sending it back to the factory for a check.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I have guns that I can shoot accurately and those that I do not get a lot of accuracy out of. Sometimes it is the gun, not the shooter or the ammo! It is a challenge, sometimes, to isolate which component in the system - shooter, ammo, gun -- is causing the problem (and sometimes all three contribute).

A "gun" accuracy problem can be isolated by getting an experienced hand to shoot the pistol, or by bench resting it to minimize shooter-induced problems. But noting the rails are canted trumps that sort of experimental data, and should be useful to S&W.

S&W Customer Service has a pretty good reputation, and they should fix the problem. They should be sending you a free UPS label to send it back to them. It will interesting to see how they choose to fix this - they may keep (destroy) that pistol and offer you another one, sending it to your choice of FFLs. Or they may be able to swap out the firing block or the sear housing block, if the problem is in one of those components and not in the frame (which is the serial numbered pistol). Please let the forum know how this turns out.

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S&W Rover

That would merit a picture if you can still take one. It's hard to visualize that condition.

I haven't been on this forum for awhile - being an old school LE who carried and was proficient with both revolvers and semi-autos, all the advice ad nauseam on "limp wristing" the firearm ticked me off.

I went into teaching criminal justice and fire fighting at a high school vocational school 12 years back. At the time I got rid of all my firearms. Having been involved with martial arts a good chunk of my life, I didn't think I needed defensive firearms.

A situation happened in February brought home to me the need for a firearm in the home. It was handled, but the deputy we called out strongly advised I get a gun. Since then I have been re-educating myself to firearms and firearm self-defense.

Long intro - so lets get back to the SD-9VE. I sent it back to Smith. They said nothing was wrong with it and the defects, the warped frame and the irregular milling in the muzzle were within specs.

I let a friend who is a machinist, and who does contract work for FN look at it. He said that the irregular milling was from a worn out broaching tool used to cut the rifling in the barrel. He said the warped frame probably wouldn't make a difference. He also worked on the barrel for an hour, sanding the jagged edges around the muzzle by hand. The gun works 100% better now.

A lot of people have had good luck with the SD9 VE. I didn't, and I believe Smith & Wesson dropped the ball. Why? The SD is meant to be a budget gun, capitalizing on the Smith reputation and the similarity and price difference with a Glock. The tolerances and specs aren't the same as say the M&P Shield, which I've shot and found very accurate and precise.

Long post, but one last point. I paid $575 for a Model 64 revolver. It is a beautiful gun, tight and a very accurate shooter. But, I paid more for it. I also bought a $249 Rock Island Armory M206 which is ugly and rough, but also a very accurate shooter. Despite being sold as a budget firearm, any firearm sold for self-defense should come straight out of the box with some degree of accuracy and reliability. For a manufacturer to lower their quality to do otherwise is negligent.

Glad you got your SD9 fixed by a friend. It sounds like you got a gun that was made on a Monday after a long weekend of partying.

My SD9 is the pickiest d--m gun I have ever owned. The only thing it really likes is 5-5.6 P. Pistol under 124 plated.

It would seem that the SD "can" be a finicky pistol. I've been using Perfecta ammo for a couple months, the same ammo which gave me issues at an earlier date. No issues at all with that ammo now. Tula is slightly less accurate, but just as reliable. Most Federal ammo is spotty in my personal SD !! Some is quite accurate some less so !! WW white box is not only less than accurate, but REALLY dirty !!! You have to try a bunch out and see what your PERSONAL handgun likes the best. I've had to do that with every gun I've ever owned. Personally if I can shoot groups of 4"at 25 yds. I'm pretty happy !! That is, as one notable firearms writer & researcher says, "minute of felon" !!! I'm good with that ! YMMV !!!

I've really enjoyed the performance out of my SD9VE. It has ran every type of ammo I've fed it, really likes Blazer. I reload mostly 124gn though. I haven't had any degree of it being "finicky," it just runs. It did start eating it's own striker assembly between 2,500 and 3,000 rounds, S&W was very prompt with replacing the part.

Accuracy is pretty darn good. I've never measured, but if I take my time I could cover the group with my hand. If I do a mag dump they would at least be on target. I don't know what else to expect from a $300 gun?

Indie - you got a decent one and I am glad you did. I got one with problems that Smith wouldn't rectify. This is a budget gun made to a limited quality level. I drew the short straw on quality with mine, but it was still within specs. I also don't think I am the only one who has had this experience.

I could not hit nothing with my sd9ve never had a bit of trouble with it just couldn't hit with it. I traded it for a Keltec pf9 and liked it but couldn't shoot it a lot because of the trigger but still a nice little pistol but my EDC is a shield.

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MP SHIELD 9

My sdve won't shoot straight either.....I purchased it from the original owner who only had the gun 3 weeks. I have a s&w 40 shield and I love the gun. I know why the guy sold me the sdve super cheap