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  #51  
Old 05-24-2016, 04:00 PM
Steve912 Steve912 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&W Rover View Post

This problem might happen with the OEM rod, too, but presumably later in the life of the gun -- after much use -- and will certainly covered by warranty.
Do keep in mind the problem (appears) to be with the aftermarket SPRING, not so much the rod--tho they come as a pair, yadda yadda. The fact that the aftermarket rod is steel probably doesn't help, but if the spring length was correct, it likely wouldn't matter.

The fully compressed aftermarket spring is longer than it should be, apparently, in the cases where spring tabs are breaking. The S&W spring should *never* cause that damage--the slide should always hard-stop on the frame, not the spring tabs, regardless of how tired the spring gets.
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  #52  
Old 05-24-2016, 04:49 PM
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I have a Glock 19 steel guide rod that I've been using in my SD40VE. Got some measurements with calipers. Wish I had a Galloway spring to compare it to. Hopefully someone else can measure their Galloway spring.

Uncompressed: 2.780
Fully Compressed: 0.905.5
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  #53  
Old 05-24-2016, 06:51 PM
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My Galloway recoil spring compresses to .975 inches, using my digital micrometer to measure and a vise to hold it.
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  #54  
Old 05-24-2016, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by S&W Rover View Post
My Galloway recoil spring compresses to .975 inches, using my digital micrometer to measure and a vise to hold it.
What weight is your Galloway spring?
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  #55  
Old 05-25-2016, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nothing View Post
Galloway insists this is a problem with SD40VE, that it happens with stock plastic rods too. He even mentions that Glock resolved this problem by adding a second locking block pin in the Gen2. I agree that it's a poor design that puts a tremendous amount of force on a small piece of plastic.

I'd imagine S&W is well aware of this problem, but are they doing anything about it? I'm not convinced.
After analyzing the problem based on the input from others in this thread, I have to strongly disagree with Galloway's assertions.

If you take the guide rod and barrel out of the slide, and put the front of the slide (the lip that hangs down below the muzzle, where the guide rod rests) against the "buttress" in the frame, you can see exactly where the slide has to reach in order to "hard stop."

When you put the factory spring and guide rod into the slide and pull the slide back, the slide reaches exactly that same point on the frame.

When you put the Galloway spring and guide rod into the slide and pull the slide back, the slide stops before reaching that "buttress."

As Steve912 said, that alone is confirmation that the problem lies with the Galloway spring.

That conclusion is further supported by the measurements of the compressed springs taken by 40s&w and S&W Rover. 40s&w's Glock 19 spring measured .905.5 inches when fully compressed, which I'm willing to bet is the same as the factory spring. Meanwhile, S&W Rover's Galloway spring measured .975 inches when fully compressed.

The proof is in the data.
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  #56  
Old 05-25-2016, 02:05 AM
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these guns were designed to use a polymer rod....because it is flexible and makes it easier install/disassemble for field strip without a recoil plunger ala 1911 for cleaning/maintenance. The guide rod serves no other purpose other than positioning the spring at the bbl locking lug under the chamber area. It doesn't effect lockup once in battery but does center it's position in that rear most lockup-while in battery, in relation function of the spring. The after market guide rods are a gimmick. The locking lug and the bbl hood and the muzzle contact are the only positions affected during lockup. Like a 1911, which most modern pistols emulate in function, the bbl unlocks upon blow back and tilts the bbl up slightly to unlock the bbl assy(where a steel rod binds slightly on this model) and release these locking points to allow extraction and ejection followed by the next repetition of feeding. And, spring power certainly does help feed different loads of weight and or charge depending on what one feeds into the gat .....long time smith, built hardball and wadcutters for the USMC teams at Quantico for years, and I wouldn't lead yall astray on these points...cheers...

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  #57  
Old 05-25-2016, 02:08 AM
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Default What stops the slide

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Originally Posted by Sidnne View Post
I think it just shows up that way in the picture because I had a flashlight shining directly on it. It's not shiny in person.

I don't think the slide is moving any further back, its still stopping at the slide stop. The aftermarket spring just causes it to stop ahead of that.
Sure looks to have a different texture on the inner area, which should match the "U" at the very front of the slide. I believe the majority opinion is that the slide is stopped by that area, so a change in texture is to be expected. Perfectly normal it would seem.

Yes, the slide should not move back any further than where it hits that section, which seems to have metal molded into the frame just behind it. And yes, a stacked spring that is too long would prevent the slide from moving all the way back and also transfer the remainder of the recoil energy to those thin tabs which support the spring. That would ultimately destroy those thin tabs.
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  #58  
Old 05-25-2016, 08:09 PM
TriumphMan TriumphMan is offline
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Well, I did some marking on my SD9VE slide and the U-shaped slide stop with "stock S&W guide rod/spring" and Galloway #17(stock factory weight) SS guide rod/spring.

With the redneck testing of both, I can see without using calipers that the Galloway setup is around 1/16th too long in the spring, which doesn't let the slide come fully back to the slide stop U-trough block.

I also compared the springs between stock and Galloway(without disassembling from rods). The Galloway spring rises in a more sharp, spiral angle, and is also thicker spring steel compared to stock. Again, this is with the SD9VE, so I can't compare to how the SD40VE is.

This spring thickness in Galloway could account for the "has come to light" problem that we're commenting on, compared to the thinner and possible shorter "stock spring" used by S&W.

I'm going back to my stock guide rod and spring setup until this gets cleared up or fixed by Galloway, by way of new shorter spring to not cause coil compression-stacking.

I suppose I could remove a coil by Dremel and test to see if that relieves the spring compression length stacking, but I would like to see if Galloway has a better fix.

I'm not a gunsmith, but I've worked on guns for years to repair or upgrade and confident what I can do, but I'll wait for now to see if anybody has/found better solution.
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  #59  
Old 05-25-2016, 08:18 PM
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I just noticed that with the Glock 19 steel guide rod the slide doesn't go back as far as it does with the stock guide rod. For now I'm switching back to the stock guide rod. Obviously I'm not going to blame the after market guide rod in my case since it's designed for Glocks. But Galloway needs to go back to the drawing board. Someone needs to email them and give them a link to this discussion.
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:10 PM
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Default Rod and spring

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Originally Posted by 40s&w View Post
I just noticed that with the Glock 19 steel guide rod the slide doesn't go back as far as it does with the stock guide rod. For now I'm switching back to the stock guide rod. Obviously I'm not going to blame the after market guide rod in my case since it's designed for Glocks. But Galloway needs to go back to the drawing board. Someone needs to email them and give them a link to this discussion.
Never having experimented with an aftermarket rod and spring, does Galloway specify that their Glock assembly is appropriate for the S&W guns? If not, there can be no complaint against that company.

What I have always seen posted here (I think) is that the Glock assembly from Galloway "fits" the SD. Well, now one can say, "Maybe not".
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  #61  
Old 05-25-2016, 09:59 PM
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I did not purchase my Glock 19 guide rod from Galloway. I purchased mine from NDZ Performance. Galloway does sell S&W specific guide rods though. When I said Galloway needs to go back to the drawing board, I meant they need to take a look at their S&W specific guide rod assembly and figure out the proper spring length.

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  #62  
Old 05-25-2016, 11:28 PM
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Well, from what I understand after talking with Galloway the last couple days, their spring supplier also makes the springs for S&W. One would reckon they (spring manufacturer) should know what is going on.

I'm shipping my pistol to Galloway next week. They want to take a look and see if S&W might have made some changes.
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  #63  
Old 05-27-2016, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nothing View Post
Well, from what I understand after talking with Galloway the last couple days, their spring supplier also makes the springs for S&W. One would reckon they (spring manufacturer) should know what is going on.

I'm shipping my pistol to Galloway next week. They want to take a look and see if S&W might have made some changes.
I'm wondering if the spring manufacturer simply didn't take the design of the take down lever into account. For most designs, I'd imagine the compressed spring length would be mostly insignificant so long as it allowed the rounds to cycle properly.

It seems when they went for the "extra power" they simply made the spring longer and thicker to gain that "extra power" without factoring in the added compressed length. You can clearly see in the picture that the 20lb Galloway spring (left) has a much tighter coil than the 17lb factory spring (right).

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Old 05-28-2016, 12:12 PM
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We shall see what they come up with. My replacement SD40VE is showing up at my FFL today and I'll be shipping my busted one to Galloway next week.
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Old 05-28-2016, 12:39 PM
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We shall see what they come up with. My replacement SD40VE is showing up at my FFL today and I'll be shipping my busted one to Galloway next week.
Did you buy a new SD40VE?
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Old 05-28-2016, 02:06 PM
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Default Spring

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Originally Posted by The Nothing View Post
Well, from what I understand after talking with Galloway the last couple days, their spring supplier also makes the springs for S&W. One would reckon they (spring manufacturer) should know what is going on.

I'm shipping my pistol to Galloway next week. They want to take a look and see if S&W might have made some changes.
I kind of doubt the spring manufacturer has anything to do with the gun design so I wouldn't fault them in any way. They just build springs based on the specifications they are given.

About S&W design changes, don't count on it. Auch a change would not only be expensive, would serve no purpose, would upset the spares process, and, finally, require a full re-test by states that maintain a gun roster.

Any hint by Galloway about "design changes" is, in my opinion, just a temporary smokescreen.
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Old 05-28-2016, 03:35 PM
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After how many rounds does S&W recommend you replace the guide rod?
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  #68  
Old 05-28-2016, 10:15 PM
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What weight is your Galloway spring?
My Galloway SD spring is 17 pounds.
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Old 05-29-2016, 12:10 AM
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Default Preload

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My Galloway SD spring is 17 pounds.
Sorry to bring this up again but it's important.

We need to include the preload on the installed spring assembly. The rod/spring assemblies are under spring force before they are in the gun, and as we all know, we have to compress the spring a bit more when we put the assembly in the gun.

I assume the Galloway unit described above must have a spring rate of 17 pounds per inch, but since it is pre-loaded the initial force against recoil is greater than zero and, in the example here, the force then increases from that initial force at the rate of 17 pounds per inch of slide movement.
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Old 05-29-2016, 12:28 PM
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After how many rounds does S&W recommend you replace the guide rod?
Nothing on this topic in the Owners Manual from 2014. There are many different suggestions on the interweb, most running from 3000 to 5000 rounds (for a full size pistol).
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Old 05-31-2016, 06:28 PM
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I just spoke with S&W and I'm sending my SD40VE in tomorrow.

It was an interesting conversation and I didn't quite understand what they meant. They told me to send it in because that will be faster than them sending me a new one... Whatever.

We'll see how it goes.
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Old 06-01-2016, 12:28 AM
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Default Galloway response

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Originally Posted by The Nothing View Post
Well, from what I understand after talking with Galloway the last couple days, their spring supplier also makes the springs for S&W. One would reckon they (spring manufacturer) should know what is going on.

I'm shipping my pistol to Galloway next week. They want to take a look and see if S&W might have made some changes.
Everyone is waiting for the response from Galloway. Keep us up to date.
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Old 06-02-2016, 04:20 PM
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FYI, the part number for the SD-9/SD-9VE/Sigma Recoil Spring Guide Assembly is 251350000.

I sent my old one, which was coming apart at the cap end, off to S&W in Springfield, MA and they sent me a new one, free. (Once again, I am impressed with S&W's customer service). My Galloway recoil spring and rod is now gone.
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Old 06-02-2016, 06:07 PM
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Everyone is waiting for the response from Galloway. Keep us up to date.
Other than getting a replacement from them, I've not heard anything. In the chance that I do hear anything, I'll report back.
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:05 PM
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Other than getting a replacement from them, I've not heard anything. In the chance that I do hear anything, I'll report back.
Offering a replacement is likely the extent of what Galloway is going to do. There is almost zero chance that Galloway will admit any fault or issue any refunds, unless forced to do so by court order.

It would be in the best interest of us consumers to file a class action lawsuit against Galloway for at least the cost of the spring assembly. I have zero legal expertise, so I wouldn't even know where to begin, but if anyone knows how to do that, then maybe we should get that ball rolling. Although, I don't want Galloway to go out of business, because they are a great asset to the firearm community in general, the SD's notwithstanding.

I'd also imagine once S&W gets word that Galloway is the cause of them having to issue new guns due to broken frames, they would likely file a lawsuit against them as well.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Galloway remove the SD springs from their website soon.
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:12 PM
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Something else I noticed, while I was packing my SD40VE up to send back to S&W, and wanted to point out.

The stainless steel Galloway guide rod is slightly longer than the factory guide rod, 0.040" to be exact. It's only a hair longer, but that additional length (or possibly the rod being made of metal) causes some peening on the slide, on the inside of the hole in the front of the slide where the guide rod rests. It is only a very slight peening, but it is enough to cause the factory guide rod to not fit back in like it used to. When I put the factory guide rod back in, it was very loose and moved around easily.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidnne View Post
Something else I noticed, EDIT.

The stainless steel Galloway guide rod is slightly longer than the factory guide rod, 0.040" to be exact. EDIT.

While the Rod is slightly longer, and can be filed down if wanted on the screw end, it's the longer Spring being compressed into a solid coil, that's causing the problems.

If Spring was shorter and actually had some air space(even just .001) between all the coils under slide recoil, the Rod would have some give/play to use the rear plate as a shock support, and not as a ramming wall, as is now being done with the Galloway setup.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:30 PM
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I posted about this some years ago.
It happened to me with my 40E ~2004. I had installed a ss ISMI spring
(23# I think).

Slide flew off at the range. S&W made good and gave me a brand new frame for free minus the FFL. I reinstalled the factory guide rod, but haven't shot it much since.

I have posted that I really believe the heavy spring was the cause... either alone or in combination with gunscrubber/ brake cleaner???

Now that I see someone else has this problem, I am pretty upset. I really love my Sigma and thought it was just a fluke.

I would really like to hear from people with high round counts to see just how long these guns last.

Regards
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriumphMan View Post
While the Rod is slightly longer, and can be filed down if wanted on the screw end, it's the longer Spring being compressed into a solid coil, that's causing the problems.

If Spring was shorter and actually had some air space(even just .001) between all the coils under slide recoil, the Rod would have some give/play to use the rear plate as a shock support, and not as a ramming wall, as is now being done with the Galloway setup.
That makes more sense, now that I think about it.
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop de Ville View Post
I posted about this some years ago.
It happened to me with my 40E ~2004. I had installed a ss ISMI spring
(23# I think).

Slide flew off at the range. S&W made good and gave me a brand new frame for free minus the FFL. I reinstalled the factory guide rod, but haven't shot it much since.

I have posted that I really believe the heavy spring was the cause... either alone or in combination with gunscrubber/ brake cleaner???

Now that I see someone else has this problem, I am pretty upset. I really love my Sigma and thought it was just a fluke.

I would really like to hear from people with high round counts to see just how long these guns last.

Regards
If you read further, we have pretty much determined that the problem is with the aftermarket spring, not with the gun itself. Post #20 explains it well.
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:44 PM
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Default Aftermarket springs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop de Ville View Post
I posted about this some years ago.

It happened to me with my 40E ~2004. I had installed a ss ISMI spring
(23# I think).

Slide flew off at the range. S&W made good and gave me a brand new frame for free minus the FFL. I reinstalled the factory guide rod, but haven't shot it much since.

I have posted that I really believe the heavy spring was the cause... either alone or in combination with gunscrubber/ brake cleaner???

Now that I see someone else has this problem, I am pretty upset. I really love my Sigma and thought it was just a fluke.

I would really like to hear from people with high round counts to see just how long these guns last.

Regards
It's not so much a high round count or the "spring weight" specifically. As posted several times here it's the minimum length of the spring assembly when compressed.

Do you have any specific recollection as to what area of the frame failed?

Do you by any chance have that ISMI spring to be measured?
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Old 06-06-2016, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ou1954 View Post
It's not so much a high round count or the "spring weight" specifically. As posted several times here it's the minimum length of the spring assembly when compressed.

Do you have any specific recollection as to what area of the frame failed?

Do you by any chance have that ISMI spring to be measured?

Same exact frame failure. I do have the spring. I will check the length. Only used it for maybe a few hundred rounds... If I recall correctly it was a 22 or 23 pound spring...
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:41 AM
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Default slide rod

after reading about the galloway guide rod I took a closer look at mine and noticed the end has been chewed up. I've decided to put the factory one back in

[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by TS7424; 06-12-2016 at 02:12 AM. Reason: show picture
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:55 AM
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I hope people with Galloway guide rods complain to them so they become aware of the problem. So far only one person from this thread complained and of course Galloway blamed S&W for flawed design.
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Old 06-06-2016, 02:01 PM
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Default Aftermarket spring assemblies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop de Ville View Post
Same exact frame failure. I do have the spring. I will check the length. Only used it for maybe a few hundred rounds... If I recall correctly it was a 22 or 23 pound spring...
I hope you can find a way to measure the collapsed length of the assembly, the distance between the two working end flanges. Others have been able to measure and report, maybe you can do the same.

As far as Galloway is concerned, I'm sure they just never got around to looking at the effect of the collapsed length and will probably blame S&W, but would never win since the polymer mold internal structure probably hasn't changed in a long time. Maybe some old timers here can tell us whether there had been a change . . . someone did post that the grip area had received sharper embossing but no one mentioned the inside structure.

We all know the recoil spring assembly does tilt a bit as the slide moves back. Metal to metal contact will cause some peening to occur.

One subject that still fails to gain traction here, is the pre-load in addition to the actual "spring rate/weight".

Everyone talks about spring weight but completely ignores the preload. We all know that preload exists because we have to overcome it when reinstalling the spring assembly, we just ignore it and consider it a nuisance.

Preload as well as spring rate have been discussed in some detail in this and other threads, and very concisely by user OKFC05 who has a scientific background. He offers good information and everyone should look at what he has posted.

I have to admit that I'm not a very active shooter but have the same technical and scientific background as OKFC05, just not the level of activity he has. He is a good resource, look at his posts and absorb some good information.
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  #86  
Old 06-06-2016, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ou1954 View Post
I hope you can find a way to measure the collapsed length of the assembly, the distance between the two working end flanges. Others have been able to measure and report, maybe you can do the same.
The collapsed length of the spring?
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  #87  
Old 06-06-2016, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop de Ville View Post
The collapsed length of the spring?
Meaning, the length of the spring when it's fully compressed.
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  #88  
Old 06-06-2016, 09:56 PM
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I also notice that the part of the tabs facing the guide rod look to have some wear on them
I have a SD9ve and was using a galloway rod with a 17# spring.I have about 500 rounds on the gun, about 350 rounds on the galloway rod
[IMG][/IMG]

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  #89  
Old 06-07-2016, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS7424 View Post
I also notice that the part of the tabs facing the guide rod look to have some wear on them
I have a SD9ve and was using a galloway rod with a 17# spring.I have about 500 rounds on the gun, about 350 rounds on the galloway rod
Are you referring to the U that is the slide stop or the smaller tabs that the recoil spring pushes against when the gun is assembled?

I believe there are pictures in an earlier post you can refer to. I think maybe post #1.

Last edited by ou1954; 06-07-2016 at 12:19 AM.
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  #90  
Old 06-07-2016, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS7424 View Post
after reading about the galloway guide rod I took a closer look at mine and noticed the end has been chewed up.
Wow. Is it hammering on your takedown plate??
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  #91  
Old 06-07-2016, 05:10 PM
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~ 25mm spring only
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Old 06-08-2016, 09:02 AM
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Contact me directly if you have this issue and our 22lb unit, I want to know about it and correct it: Eric@gallowayprecision.com

Until Issac on here contacted me I had heard nothing about an issue like this other than stock failures in the 40. Considering this has recently popped up it makes me and the spring maker think there may have been a change in the frame to slide stop limit.

I replaced Issac's pistol to get it here for inspection, he has his replacement but hasn't sent the old one in. I extend the same to ANYONE here with this issue. Contact me directly and we will send a pre paid label to ship your pistol to us, and refund the cost of your rod. Once here with the rod for inspection you should have located a FFL in your area. We will contact them to pay for any transfer fees, checks etc and ship a brand new sd40 in factory box to them for you free of charge, with our thanks for helping.

Our goal is and has been to offer quality parts to increase the performance of niche pistols we provide parts for like the SD. When the SD community wanted guide rods we started offering them, they have been a great upgrade with no issues till now so I would like to find out what has changed. Until I do we have stopped offering the 22lb unit.

Eric Galloway

Last edited by Galloway; 06-08-2016 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 06-08-2016, 12:04 PM
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Good on you for stepping up Galloway.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galloway View Post
Contact me directly if you have this issue and our 22lb unit, I want to know about it and correct it: Eric@gallowayprecision.com

Until Issac on here contacted me I had heard nothing about an issue like this other than stock failures in the 40. Considering this has recently popped up it makes me and the spring maker think there may have been a change in the frame to slide stop limit.

<snip>

Our goal is and has been to offer quality parts to increase the performance of niche pistols we provide parts for like the SD. When the SD community wanted guide rods we started offering them, they have been a great upgrade with no issues till now so I would like to find out what has changed. Until I do we have stopped offering the 22lb unit.

Eric Galloway
How can the group help you find out whether there has been any change to the gun internals?

You must have tested and measured the SS rod when you first designed it. Maybe you can provide those measurements and maybe a serial number, and the SD40 owners can then do the same measurements on their guns for comparison to try to track down if, and when, an internal design change was made by S&W.

I'm sure the group will do whatever it takes to help solve the problem.

I do have one question about the design . . . What is the preload you see when the slide is closed? This seems to be an overlooked issue but it seems to contribute to the response of the spring.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:42 PM
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It looks to me like Galloway is definitely stepping up.

This problem may be limited to the SD40VE, and to the 22 lbs spring-- we'll see.

I have personally swapped out my Galloway recoil rod and spring, and have installed a S&W stock item. I have had no demonstrable damage from using the Galloway spring and made the change out of an abundance of caution.

If Galloway is able to sort out the problem, and either make changes to their product, suggest limitations in how their product is used, otherwise solve this problem, or even withdraw their product -- then I think their forthright approach to this issue has earned them some significant customer loyalty. (They sell a number of other products besides the guide rod and spring).

Standing by to see what Eric learns from looking at the SD40 he has gotten in for review, following the problem that started this thread.
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Old 06-08-2016, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galloway View Post
Contact me directly if you have this issue and our 22lb unit, I want to know about it and correct it: Eric@gallowayprecision.com

Until Issac on here contacted me I had heard nothing about an issue like this other than stock failures in the 40. Considering this has recently popped up it makes me and the spring maker think there may have been a change in the frame to slide stop limit.

I replaced Issac's pistol to get it here for inspection, he has his replacement but hasn't sent the old one in. I extend the same to ANYONE here with this issue. Contact me directly and we will send a pre paid label to ship your pistol to us, and refund the cost of your rod. Once here with the rod for inspection you should have located a FFL in your area. We will contact them to pay for any transfer fees, checks etc and ship a brand new sd40 in factory box to them for you free of charge, with our thanks for helping.

Our goal is and has been to offer quality parts to increase the performance of niche pistols we provide parts for like the SD. When the SD community wanted guide rods we started offering them, they have been a great upgrade with no issues till now so I would like to find out what has changed. Until I do we have stopped offering the 22lb unit.

Eric Galloway

Thank you for taking this action. It is greatly appreciated and shows Galloway is an a tremendous asset to the firearm community.

However, the issue is not limited to the 22lb unit. I am the person who started this thread and I had the 20lb unit. I would strongly advise that you stop offering ALL of the SDVE guide rod assemblies until this issue is resolved.
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Old 06-08-2016, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ou1954 View Post
You must have tested and measured the SS rod when you first designed it. Maybe you can provide those measurements.
Rod length doesn't matter. It could be a foot long, and the excess would just wave around in front of the slide. The length of the compressed-coil-on-coil recoil spring + the thickness of the rod base is the determinant, as to whether the spring base area of frame ends up taking 100% of the slide momentum
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Old 06-08-2016, 10:37 PM
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Unhappy Length

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve912 View Post
Rod length doesn't matter. It could be a foot long, and the excess would just wave around in front of the slide. The length of the compressed-coil-on-coil recoil spring + the thickness of the rod base is the determinant, as to whether the spring base area of frame ends up taking 100% of the slide momentum
Just a slip of the keyboard on my post. If you look at my prior posts you will see that I have always addressed the distance between the two force flanges/ends of the assembly. I addressed that in more than one post and also tried to get folks to consider the preload of the installed spring system.

Please review my posts and see what I said when I was thinking and in my right mind.

Start with my discussion in post #85 and then move back up the ladder from there. I think I did properly address the appropriate measurement. I did, however, ask a needless question somewhere along the way, that is I wasn't sure where the ultimate slide stop was. I later found it and described it as a U.

Last edited by ou1954; 06-08-2016 at 10:44 PM. Reason: Add post ref number
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  #99  
Old 06-09-2016, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidnne View Post
Thank you for taking this action. It is greatly appreciated and shows Galloway is an a tremendous asset to the firearm community.

However, the issue is not limited to the 22lb unit. I am the person who started this thread and I had the 20lb unit. I would strongly advise that you stop offering ALL of the SDVE guide rod assemblies until this issue is resolved.
You have a 20lb that did this? email me eric@gallowayprecision.com I'll send you a prepaid label to get the pistol and rod here. I just pulled the 20lb off the site till I see yours and the rod you received. Appreciate the help in this. Once here let me know about an FFL on your end.
-Eric

Last edited by Galloway; 06-09-2016 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 06-09-2016, 08:38 AM
Galloway Galloway is offline
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The pistols in hand to measure the slide stop to locking block will be what we need to see as well as slide thickness and pocket depth. This will tell me what the models are doing and what SN range it may be in.

The rods are a direct drop in, they may be over all longer than some of the rods slightly, about .040, there are two factory lengths, but the working length is the same as stock and rod length doesn't matter unless it is to short. Our shop gun has 1000s of rounds through it with no issues. 22lb and all.

As for preload increases I will have to ask the spring maker, it is minor as the changes are low.

Ultimately the u design they use on these is terrible, the 40 beats it to death. What I don't get is considering the number of these out in service with crazy high round counts and zero issues, yet here are a few with issues. I've seen the factory parts break the u out and bend the tab, plastic guiderod and all so they do fail stock but I want to know if there is a change in the frame address it now.
-Eric

Quote:
Originally Posted by ou1954 View Post
How can the group help you find out whether there has been any change to the gun internals?

You must have tested and measured the SS rod when you first designed it. Maybe you can provide those measurements and maybe a serial number, and the SD40 owners can then do the same measurements on their guns for comparison to try to track down if, and when, an internal design change was made by S&W.

I'm sure the group will do whatever it takes to help solve the problem.

I do have one question about the design . . . What is the preload you see when the slide is closed? This seems to be an overlooked issue but it seems to contribute to the response of the spring.
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