Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 06-09-2016, 01:19 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default Collapsed length

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galloway View Post
The pistols in hand to measure the slide stop to locking block will be what we need to see as well as slide thickness and pocket depth. This will tell me what the models are doing and what SN range it may be in.

The rods are a direct drop in, they may be over all longer than some of the rods slightly, about .040, there are two factory lengths, but the working length is the same as stock and rod length doesn't matter unless it is to short. Our shop gun has 1000s of rounds through it with no issues. 22lb and all.

As for preload increases I will have to ask the spring maker, it is minor as the changes are low.

Ultimately the u design they use on these is terrible, the 40 beats it to death. What I don't get is considering the number of these out in service with crazy high round counts and zero issues, yet here are a few with issues. I've seen the factory parts break the u out and bend the tab, plastic guiderod and all so they do fail stock but I want to know if there is a change in the frame address it now.
-Eric
The key evidence I see is that folks have posted that the slide travel is 1/16" less, at least on some samples, when some aftermarket assemblies are substituted for a factory unit. That aligns precisely with the damage reported by some owners.

As far as preload is concerned, I humbly suggest it is not a spring manufacturer issue, but is an issue for the assembly manufacturer. It can be measured with an appropriate spring scale by measuring the force necessary to start moving the slide rearward from battery. I believe that preload should be considered along with spring rate, but that notion still hasn't gained any traction on this forum.

I can't address any bashing on the U section in the frame which is (supposed to be) the ultimate slide stop. I don't see anything unusual on my SD9VE and have never fired nor field-stripped a 40.

I can make accurate length/distance measurements on my SD9VE but cannot do any force testing. If anyone needs measurements on a stock gun I can make and report them.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #102  
Old 06-09-2016, 03:55 PM
Sidnne's Avatar
Sidnne Sidnne is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 54
Likes: 68
Liked 48 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galloway View Post
You have a 20lb that did this? email me eric@gallowayprecision.com I'll send you a prepaid label to get the pistol and rod here. I just pulled the 20lb off the site till I see yours and the rod you received. Appreciate the help in this. Once here let me know about an FFL on your end.
-Eric
I'm sending you an email now. Unfortunately, I have already sent my pistol back to S&W on the 31st of May. So, I'm not sure how much help I can be at this point.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 06-09-2016, 05:06 PM
Coop de Ville Coop de Ville is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: MD
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Just something I wanted to share. My ~2004 40E has tabs approximately the same thickness as my Gen2 Glock 19. The Gen2 Glock 22 has tabs that are at least twice as thick as these. Maybe they knew something...

I am wondering if my 40E frame is really a 9E frame??? Anybody have any thought?

Thanks.

ETA: the 2 tabs that sit in front of the slide lock
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 06-09-2016, 09:37 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default Those "tabs"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop de Ville View Post
Just something I wanted to share. My ~2004 40E has tabs approximately the same thickness as my Gen2 Glock 19. The Gen2 Glock 22 has tabs that are at least twice as thick as these. Maybe they knew something...

I am wondering if my 40E frame is really a 9E frame??? Anybody have any thought?

Thanks.

ETA: the 2 tabs that sit in front of the slide lock
A while back I posted that I could push a thin sheet of paper between those tabs and what we typically call the "take down bar". I decided to take a second look at that area in my SD9VE and noticed that the "bar" is in a relatively thick section of the frame, and the "tabs" can be easily pushed back to that bar with no significant or damaging deflection.

My conclusion, subject to the observations of others here, is that the tabs are actually supported by the "bar" which is, in turn, supported by two thick sections of the frame. I tend to believe that the tabs would not be damaged by the force of a spring during recoil because the slide is stopped, normally, by that thick U section we all talk about. I do think that those tabs could be damaged by a fully collapsed spring, as observed by others.

Again, just my observation and opinion, nothing more.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #105  
Old 06-09-2016, 11:04 PM
Coop de Ville Coop de Ville is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: MD
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Default

ok. The tabs are so thin, maybe they flex and are buffered by the take down bar.... that would make sense in theory.

But the force, no matter where from, would strike the thick U part, no?
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 06-09-2016, 11:55 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default Tabs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop de Ville View Post
ok. The tabs are so thin, maybe they flex and are buffered by the take down bar.... that would make sense in theory.

But the force, no matter where from, would strike the thick U part, no?
Sorry, no.

If the spring is fully collapsed before the slide hits the big U, the recoil force is applied through the rear end of the guide rod to those tabs which are not intended to take an impact. Instead of a spring we have, in effect, a solid cylinder.

If you look at prior posts some folks have reported that an aftermarket spring stopped the slide movement 1/16" less than when a factory spring is installed. This indicates that the spring is no longer acting as a spring, it's acting like a solid cylinder. So, instead of the slide being stopped by that beefy U, the slide is stopped by bashing the tabs, and ultimately that "takedown bar".

You will see the original failures which are reported are a bashed up or even a fallen takedown bar, in some cases the slide came off. In at least one other report the metal guide rod rear end was bashed up, apparently by hitting the takedown bar. You will also see posts which say that just one tab had failed, apparently on the way to the full failure.

I hope this makes sense. If you have a question, just scan through the posts and you will see that, taken as a whole, they point to the process described above.

This is first described in post 20. Subsequent posts include some measurements and other observations and some of my posts ask questions I need not have asked if I had looked more carefully at my own gun.

Last edited by ou1954; 06-10-2016 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Add a reference post number.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 06-10-2016, 12:16 AM
Coop de Ville Coop de Ville is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: MD
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Default

I will reread the entire thread.

I was always under the impression that the compressed spring/ guide rod was what stopped slide movement.... by design. I don't see any parts of the slide that stop travel. ie: the fully compressed spring butts the muzzle tab and stops travel..
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 06-10-2016, 12:49 AM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default Take another look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop de Ville View Post
I will reread the entire thread.

I was always under the impression that the compressed spring/ guide rod was what stopped slide movement.... by design. I don't see any parts of the slide that stop travel. ie: the fully compressed spring butts the muzzle tab and stops travel..
Maybe a test will help:

Pull the slide back and mark (or observe) where it stops. Then remove the recoil spring and barrel* and put the slide back on, pull it back and see where it stops. Same place? Yes.

Then look through the hole where the guide rod goes and inspect where the hang-down U of the slide hits. Strange, it is hitting the U in the polymer frame. The recoil spring and guide rod don't normally play a part in stopping the slide.

*(Use care and remove the barrel as well as the spring assembly. If you don't you will have to manage some special steps to get the slide back off)
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 06-10-2016, 01:13 AM
Sidnne's Avatar
Sidnne Sidnne is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 54
Likes: 68
Liked 48 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop de Ville View Post
I will reread the entire thread.

I was always under the impression that the compressed spring/ guide rod was what stopped slide movement.... by design. I don't see any parts of the slide that stop travel. ie: the fully compressed spring butts the muzzle tab and stops travel..
You're definitely misunderstanding.

The slide is stopped by the thick U-shaped buttress on the frame, which I have circled in the pics below. The part on the frame circled in red is the slide-stop:





With the factory spring, the slide hits that buttress, and the slide is stopped. When that stop occurs, the spring is not yet fully compressed. Since the spring is not fully compressed, and the slide has been stopped, there is no forced being applied to those tabs. All of the energy has been absorbed by that buttress.

With the aftermarket spring, the slide never reaches that buttress, because the spring becomes fully compressed before the slide hits the buttress. In this case, the compression of the spring IS what is stopping the movement of the slide. And since the spring is stopping the slide, the energy from the slide is transferred through the spring/guide rod and into whatever is behind the guide rod, which happens to be those tabs. In essence, the slide is slamming into those tabs each time a round is fired.

The tabs were not designed to take the force of the slide travel, because the slide was designed to stop on that U-shaped slide-stop.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #110  
Old 06-10-2016, 01:36 AM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default

Thanks Sidnne,

Great picture and explanation. Am I finally off the hook?

I do sort of feel that those tabs are well supported by the "take down bar" which lives in some pretty thick frame sections. With repeated hammering those tabs will go and in at least a couple of cases the take down bar is wedged down allowing the slide to fall off.

Stand by for questions about a "fully compressed" or "stacked" spring. Get your pictures made now.

Last edited by ou1954; 06-10-2016 at 01:45 AM. Reason: Stand by
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #111  
Old 06-10-2016, 06:41 AM
Coop de Ville Coop de Ville is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: MD
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Ok, that makes sense now. I was under the impression that the take down bar is what absorbs recoil... Along with the locking block.

So, basically, you just need a shorter spring. Is it possible to cut coils off the spring?
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 06-10-2016, 11:14 AM
TriumphMan TriumphMan is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Missouri---South of KC
Posts: 115
Likes: 52
Liked 79 Times in 52 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop de Ville View Post
Ok, that makes sense now. I was under the impression that the take down bar is what absorbs recoil...
EDIT.

You're part correct. Yes, the take-down plate/bar does help absorb recoil and also keeps the rear of Slide-Spring Bar in proper placement, but ONLY from spring compression to help keep the Slide under fired/unfired control. The weight of the spring helps control the Slide's delayed reaction under the firing of bullet to not open late/too soon.

You CAN use heavier/lighter springs than factory stock, but you also have to use the correct ammo's with these type springs to prevent any danger or damage and still have reliability, longevity and safe shooting.

With the Galloway system as of now, the springs are being compressed into a single block of metal too soon and not letting the slide fully open under recoil and thus breaking the frames.

I own a 9mm and 40cal. fired guns. While the 9mm might not have as much force to maybe create the frame's breakage that the snappiness of a 40 will/can do, the springs of both are too long and not doing what they're designed to do, and that is "spring" at the correct time under full recoil and making another part take the brunt of the force, that wasn't designed to do.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #113  
Old 06-10-2016, 01:21 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default One more time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop de Ville View Post

<snip>

So, basically, you just need a shorter spring. Is it possible to cut coils off the spring?
Don't even think about it.

There is a delicate balance among spring uncompressed length, the spring rate, the compression that would cause full collapse (stacking) of the spring, and the impulse which results from sending the bullet down the barrel.

All this is a compromise and I am amazed that gun designers are able to deal with all this and handle a reasonable range of loads and bullet weights.

I think it all comes back to the hard stop, the U we all talk about. The gun is apparently set up to do a full recoil cycle with light loads and still take the slide back to that U section. For heavier loads it seems that the U is still able to take the hit.

If the spring "stacks" before the matching U's meet, the remaining energy goes into the tabs, eventually bashing them off.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #114  
Old 06-10-2016, 04:17 PM
3hounds 3hounds is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: PA.
Posts: 552
Likes: 367
Liked 104 Times in 83 Posts
Default

Think im going to cut my spring down on my 40 till it doesn't stack no more and see how it works.

I purchased my spring from NDZ I believe, a 20 pounder with the steel guide rod.

The preload will be less but the compressed rate will be more, maybe I can do it at work 2nite ?

Then ill take my stock spring and see how that works on my steel rod.

Maybe ill do the stock spring first before cutting down 20 lb. spring.

Thanks for the heads up on the spring stacking, 3.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 06-10-2016, 04:45 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default Cut Down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hounds View Post
Think I'm going to cut my spring down on my 40 till it doesn't stack no more and see how it works.
<snip>
You seem to be saying that the spring in your gun stacks now.

If you have been firing it that way I have to assume you will have inspected the internals before firing it again. If you haven't I hope you will.

You also indicate it's from a different vendor. What we don't know is whether NDZ made the spring or just sells it. Maybe someone on this list will know . . . it would be of interest to many.

Take care, good luck, we wish you success and safe shooting.
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 06-10-2016, 05:10 PM
3hounds 3hounds is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: PA.
Posts: 552
Likes: 367
Liked 104 Times in 83 Posts
Default

Yes my 20 lb. NDZ springs stacks, slide never touches the stop.

Have not shot it with that combo yet, so no worries.

I'll see if I can find out who makes their springs.

Thanks, 3
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 06-10-2016, 05:22 PM
3hounds 3hounds is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: PA.
Posts: 552
Likes: 367
Liked 104 Times in 83 Posts
Default

NDZ says on their website, the spring is made by ISMI.

Integrated System management Inc.

In their defense though the rod and spring are intended for the
Glock 19 I believe.

Thanks, 3
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 06-10-2016, 05:45 PM
Sidnne's Avatar
Sidnne Sidnne is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 54
Likes: 68
Liked 48 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hounds View Post
NDZ says on their website, the spring is made by ISMI.

Integrated System management Inc.

In their defense though the rod and spring are intended for the
Glock 19 I believe.

Thanks, 3
ISMI is the same company who makes the springs for Galloway.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 06-10-2016, 06:29 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default Spring Mfg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidnne View Post
ISMI is the same company who makes the springs for Galloway.
They also supply S&W springs. Their website discusses spring technology, including the endurance of race car springs.

One would assume, looking at their website section on how to specify springs, that the gun or assembly manufacturer would be the client and therefore responsible for any specific application.

However, looking at the website, they offer springs for specific weapons, clearly bypassing the gun manufacturer.

The question still remains, who is responsible for the spring designs used by the ultimate assembly manufacturer?
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 06-10-2016, 06:50 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default

I just sent a short note and URL to ismi-gunsprings inquiring about spring specifications by non-OEM vendors.

I invited them to scan this thread.

Hope it's O.K. to do that
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #121  
Old 06-11-2016, 04:13 PM
40s&w's Avatar
40s&w 40s&w is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: West Coast
Posts: 51
Likes: 13
Liked 31 Times in 19 Posts
Default

I too have a steel guide rod with a 20# spring for Glock 19 that I purchased from NDZ. I posted measurements of the fully compressed spring and it comes out shorter than the 20# springs Galloway has on their rods.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 06-11-2016, 08:38 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default Compressed length

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40s&w View Post
I too have a steel guide rod with a 20# spring for Glock 19 that I purchased from NDZ. I posted measurements of the fully compressed spring and it comes out shorter than the 20# springs Galloway has on their rods.
I have seen some measurements but I don't know what the minimum length should be. Maybe someone does . . .

However, it would be informative to put each assembly in your gun and measure how far the slide can be pulled back.

It would be even more interesting if you could also test the OEM assembly if it's still around.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 06-12-2016, 12:29 AM
TS7424's Avatar
TS7424 TS7424 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 45
Likes: 45
Liked 20 Times in 13 Posts
Default

in the image the areas in the red ovals show areas where the guide rod has worn the tabs where the guide sits
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 06-12-2016, 01:12 AM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default Stacking or just steel

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS7424 View Post
in the image the areas in the red ovals show areas where the guide rod has worn the tabs where the guide sits.

[IMG][/IMG]
Excellent picture-

I believe you previously posted that you have an SD9VE with a 17# Galloway assembly and also a picture showing that the end of that rod is chewed up.

Can you mark the maximum slide rear movement limit and then compare that with what you get with the Galloway rod back in?

The reason is to try to determine whether the damage (to the tabs and the rear of the rod) is due to spring stacking or simply because the rod end was metal. [or both?]
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 06-12-2016, 01:16 AM
TS7424's Avatar
TS7424 TS7424 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 45
Likes: 45
Liked 20 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nothing View Post
Wow. Is it hammering on your takedown plate??
it was wearing on the tabs in front of the take down lever, the guide rod looks like it was being scored on the end pad
[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 06-12-2016, 11:10 AM
3hounds 3hounds is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: PA.
Posts: 552
Likes: 367
Liked 104 Times in 83 Posts
Default

The reason the end of the guide rod is scored is because when u first put it in the gun you are putting it against the metal barrel lug.

It's under spring pressure so you have to slide it in, that puts marks on the guide rod end.

Thanks, 3
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #127  
Old 06-12-2016, 01:46 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default Dark Marks

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hounds View Post
The reason the end of the guide rod is scored is because when u first put it in the gun you are putting it against the metal barrel lug.

It's under spring pressure so you have to slide it in, that puts marks on the guide rod end.

Thanks, 3
I still have the original plastic rod so I don't see anything like that, but your argument about making marks when setting the spring assembly in makes sense.

There is something that is interesting, however. The picture showing the plastic "tabs" also shows some dark areas on the "take down bar", just above the tab area.

My SD9 doesn't have those. Any idea why they are there?

[My bar is stainless also, the only change I have made to my gun, so any dark marks would show.]
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 06-12-2016, 02:43 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default Tabs Missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidnne View Post
You're definitely misunderstanding.

The slide is stopped by the thick U-shaped buttress on the frame, which I have circled in the pics below. The part on the frame circled in red is the slide-stop:





With the factory spring, the slide hits that buttress, and the slide is stopped. When that stop occurs, the spring is not yet fully compressed. Since the spring is not fully compressed, and the slide has been stopped, there is no forced being applied to those tabs. All of the energy has been absorbed by that buttress.

With the aftermarket spring, the slide never reaches that buttress, because the spring becomes fully compressed before the slide hits the buttress. In this case, the compression of the spring IS what is stopping the movement of the slide. And since the spring is stopping the slide, the energy from the slide is transferred through the spring/guide rod and into whatever is behind the guide rod, which happens to be those tabs. In essence, the slide is slamming into those tabs each time a round is fired.

The tabs were not designed to take the force of the slide travel, because the slide was designed to stop on that U-shaped slide-stop.
Just noticed that in these pictures the "tabs" are completely gone. Maybe the intent was to show them gone but the focus is on the primary buttress.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 06-12-2016, 03:03 PM
Sidnne's Avatar
Sidnne Sidnne is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 54
Likes: 68
Liked 48 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ou1954 View Post
Just noticed that in these pictures the "tabs" are completely gone. Maybe the intent was to show them gone but the focus is on the primary buttress.
Those are the same pics I posted in the OP to show that the tabs are gone.

I wanted to highlight the buttress in my explanation to the guy who was confused about what stops the slide, but I couldn't take new pics because I had already sent my pistol back to S&W, so I just used the same pics.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #130  
Old 06-12-2016, 04:43 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default I feel stupid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidnne View Post
Those are the same pics I posted in the OP to show that the tabs are gone.

I wanted to highlight the buttress in my explanation to the guy who was confused about what stops the slide, but I couldn't take new pics because I had already sent my pistol back to S&W, so I just used the same pics.
I never looked back that far . . . You originated this whole thread.

I feel a little stupid, just a bit less than really stupid.
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 06-13-2016, 07:24 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default ISMI Response

Quote:
Originally Posted by ou1954 View Post
I just got a reply from ISMI:

Interesting and concise.

DAW
From our perspective, it is simple. Our M&P recoil springs were designed for use in the full size pistols. These have a 4.25" barrel. The SD40VE has a 4" barrel and as such, significantly less room in the spring tunnel than the full size pistol. That explains the spring going to solid height. Not unlike taking a recoil spring for a 5" 1911 pistol and putting it in a commander sized 1911. It just does not fit.

We have never sold these springs for use in anything other than the full size pistols or told anyone that they work in anything but the full sized M&P pistols. In more than 5 years, we have never had anyone contact us with a problem with spring performance when used in the full size pistols. For the SD40VE, I would believe that with the shorter slide it would need a recoil spring of a coil count similar to the Glock M19/23 size pistols.

Hope that this info is of some use.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #132  
Old 06-13-2016, 07:51 PM
TriumphMan TriumphMan is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Missouri---South of KC
Posts: 115
Likes: 52
Liked 79 Times in 52 Posts
Default

OU1954, thanks for the heads up from ISMI.

This would make complete sense.

So, is Galloway using a spring from a MP model thinking it will work(without problems) in the SD/VE models? Sure sounds it.

This is like using 5.56(M193)NATO rounds in a 223 rifle. Well, it's close enough. It is, until you ruin your rifle in short order or the rifle "grenades" from the PSI differences of chamber pressures.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #133  
Old 06-13-2016, 09:49 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default Guide Rod life

Quote:
Originally Posted by Practical View Post
After how many rounds does S&W recommend you replace the guide rod?
Practical: I assume you really mean to ask how many rounds can be fired before the spring (or assembly) should be replaced.

ISMI addresses it on their website, but as related to a 1911.

=================
How often should the recoil spring be changed? The recoil spring should be changed, at the latest, when it has lost 0.500” of free length from new. At this point, the spring has suffered a considerable reduction in load exerted at installed (when the gun is in battery).

How long will an ISMI recoil spring last? In independent testing, ISMI spring(s) have endured in excess of 100,000 compression cycles. We don’t recommend going that long between changes however. With an ISMI spring, practice routine maintenance and change it once a year.

=================

Maybe "once a year" is marketing talk, like the old 3,000 mile or one year oil change rule.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:36 PM
Sidnne's Avatar
Sidnne Sidnne is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 54
Likes: 68
Liked 48 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ou1954 View Post
Practical: I assume you really mean to ask how many rounds can be fired before the spring (or assembly) should be replaced.

ISMI addresses it on their website, but as related to a 1911.

=================
How often should the recoil spring be changed? The recoil spring should be changed, at the latest, when it has lost 0.500” of free length from new. At this point, the spring has suffered a considerable reduction in load exerted at installed (when the gun is in battery).

How long will an ISMI recoil spring last? In independent testing, ISMI spring(s) have endured in excess of 100,000 compression cycles. We don’t recommend going that long between changes however. With an ISMI spring, practice routine maintenance and change it once a year.

=================

Maybe "once a year" is marketing talk, like the old 3,000 mile or one year oil change rule.
Once a year is absurd, and is certainly marketing talk.

I would like to offer a bridge for sale to anyone who changes their recoil spring once a year. And I recommend they practice routine maintenance by buying a new bridge from me at least once a year.
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 06-13-2016, 10:40 PM
3hounds 3hounds is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: PA.
Posts: 552
Likes: 367
Liked 104 Times in 83 Posts
Default

First of all I don't know what ou1954 asked ISMI and I don't understand
ISM'S explanation.
First he talks about the M&P recoil springs designed for full sized pistols ?
Then he says these springs ?

Never had any problem in over 5 yrs. when used in full sized pistols ?

We are not talking about the M&P and the SDVE is not a full sized pistol.

He acts like they DON'T make springs for mid sized pistol's.

Why didn't he just say, WE DON'T MAKE SPRINGS FOR THE SDVE ?

The Glock 19 spring STACKS in my SD40VE so forget that.

He has no clue what Galloway is selling us and saying it fits our guns ?

Maybe the M&P spring or the Glock spring ?

Ok, thanks ou1954 for the info.

3
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 06-13-2016, 11:16 PM
Sidnne's Avatar
Sidnne Sidnne is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 54
Likes: 68
Liked 48 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hounds View Post
First of all I don't know what ou1954 asked ISMI and I don't understand
ISM'S explanation.
First he talks about the M&P recoil springs designed for full sized pistols ?
Then he says these springs ?

Never had any problem in over 5 yrs. when used in full sized pistols ?

We are not talking about the M&P and the SDVE is not a full sized pistol.

He acts like they DON'T make springs for mid sized pistol's.

Why didn't he just say, WE DON'T MAKE SPRINGS FOR THE SDVE ?

The Glock 19 spring STACKS in my SD40VE so forget that.

He has no clue what Galloway is selling us and saying it fits our guns ?

Maybe the M&P spring or the Glock spring ?

Ok, thanks ou1954 for the info.

3
The way I understood it, is that ISMI is implying they did not make an aftermarket spring for the SD40VE for Galloway or NDZ, and that the companies are using the M&P springs as SDVE springs.
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 06-13-2016, 11:18 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default

3hounds: Sorry for any confusion, the subject is the S&W SD series.

The only S&W guns they sell springs directly to the consumer are for the full size M&P. You can check their website for the other brands they sell on a retail basis-

Integrated Systems Management Inc.

and select "Products" to see what they support to end users, or read this section of their response:

"We have never sold these springs for use in anything other than the full size pistols or told anyone that they work in anything but the full sized M&P pistols."

Last edited by ou1954; 06-13-2016 at 11:26 PM. Reason: Add URL
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #138  
Old 06-13-2016, 11:21 PM
40s&w's Avatar
40s&w 40s&w is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: West Coast
Posts: 51
Likes: 13
Liked 31 Times in 19 Posts
Default

The reply from ISMI just adds more questions than answers.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #139  
Old 06-13-2016, 11:37 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default ISMI Response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidnne View Post
The way I understood it, is that ISMI is implying they did not make an aftermarket spring for the SD40VE for Galloway or NDZ, and that the companies are using the M&P springs as SDVE springs.
Imply is the operative word. I didn't want to get between ISMI and the aftermarket folks. It's up the the reader to draw any conclusion.

If you visit their website you will see Glock (Several frame sizes it seems) is supported on a retail level, along with several other manufacturers, as well as the 1911, which is apparently a universal design.

Now, there is indeed the possibility that one of the Glock models they support has a spring size appropriate for an SD40VE.
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 06-14-2016, 12:27 AM
3hounds 3hounds is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: PA.
Posts: 552
Likes: 367
Liked 104 Times in 83 Posts
Default

ou1954, no confusion from you.

That's my point, WHY DONT THEY JUST SAY, WE DONT MAKE SPRINGS FOR THE SD SERIES ?

Why even bring up the M&P when we want to know about the SD series ?

The Glock 19 spring does not work, it stacks before the slide hits the stop.

If they were that concerned why don't they tell after market vendors
not to use their name for guns they don't make springs for ?

Because their selling more springs this way.

Like it was said earlier, it brings up more questions than answers.

I went to their website before my last post.

Ok I'm done with this topic till I get some measurements from my original spring and my NDZ ISMI Glock 19 spring.

Thanks,3
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #141  
Old 06-14-2016, 12:43 AM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default

3hounds - Perhaps they do make springs for the SD series but just don't retail them.

I don't know what arrangement they might have with S&W.

Last edited by ou1954; 06-14-2016 at 01:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 06-14-2016, 02:20 AM
TS7424's Avatar
TS7424 TS7424 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 45
Likes: 45
Liked 20 Times in 13 Posts
Default

it might have been, this was the Galloway 17# guide rod for SD9ve
I also notice that the Galloway is a little longer as it needs more pressure to install it in the slide
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #143  
Old 06-14-2016, 03:50 AM
TS7424's Avatar
TS7424 TS7424 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 45
Likes: 45
Liked 20 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ou1954 View Post
Excellent picture-

I believe you previously posted that you have an SD9VE with a 17# Galloway assembly and also a picture showing that the end of that rod is chewed up.

Can you mark the maximum slide rear movement limit and then compare that with what you get with the Galloway rod back in?

The reason is to try to determine whether the damage (to the tabs and the rear of the rod) is due to spring stacking or simply because the rod end was metal. [or both?]
The Galloway is defiantly longer, I marked where the slide stops without a guide rod in "don't recommend, hard to get slide back off" then with the factory guide rod and then Galloway, the factory rod hit the same mark as with no guide rod, the Galloway stopped short about a 64th inch. the aftermarket is bottoming out before the slide gets to the stop.

Last edited by TS7424; 06-14-2016 at 03:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 06-14-2016, 09:18 AM
TriumphMan TriumphMan is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Missouri---South of KC
Posts: 115
Likes: 52
Liked 79 Times in 52 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS7424 View Post
it might have been, this was the Galloway 17# guide rod for SD9ve
I also notice that the Galloway is a little longer as it needs more pressure to install it in the slide

I concur. The same is on my SD9VE when I did my test in previous posts and I too am using a stock 17# Galloway spring. Good thing I had the stock S&W rod and spring to fall back on until this is resolved.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #145  
Old 06-14-2016, 01:51 PM
3hounds 3hounds is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: PA.
Posts: 552
Likes: 367
Liked 104 Times in 83 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ou1954 View Post
3hounds - Perhaps they do make springs for the SD series but just don't retail them.

I don't know what arrangement they might have with S&W.
Like it was said before, still more questions than answers ?

You think ISMI would have stated that ?

Who knows but something SMELLS if you ask me.

Somebody screwed up somewhere that's for sure.

We'll get the answers we seek sooner or later I hope.

Thanks, ou1954
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 06-14-2016, 02:25 PM
3hounds 3hounds is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: PA.
Posts: 552
Likes: 367
Liked 104 Times in 83 Posts
Default

Just tried measuring my stock and NDZ Glock 19 guide rod.

Best I can tell is the difference in length is due to the metal washer on the end of the NDZ rod, It's that much longer.

It's roughly 1/16th of an inch longer than the stock rod.

I'll try to get the bolt out of the NDZ rod and remove washer, then put it back in, it should just bottom out then ?

Having hard time with the bolt, screw, on end of rod.

Thanks, 3
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 06-14-2016, 02:52 PM
ou1954's Avatar
ou1954 ou1954 is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 926
Likes: 643
Liked 273 Times in 195 Posts
Default Doing the test

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS7424 View Post
The Galloway is defiantly longer, I marked where the slide stops without a guide rod in "don't recommend, hard to get slide back off" then with the factory guide rod and then Galloway, the factory rod hit the same mark as with no guide rod, the Galloway stopped short about a 64th inch. the aftermarket is bottoming out before the slide gets to the stop.
Yes, it's hard to get the slide back off if you do the test by removing just the spring. Referring back to a comment on my post, #108:

*(Use care and remove the barrel as well as the spring assembly. If you don't you will have to manage some special steps to get the slide back off)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #148  
Old 06-14-2016, 04:31 PM
TriumphMan TriumphMan is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Missouri---South of KC
Posts: 115
Likes: 52
Liked 79 Times in 52 Posts
Default

3hounds.
That small screw will be hard to remove. It's been loctited, to ensure it won't loosen up on it's own, with usage over time.

Just be slow and don't twist in large amounts as the screw head could snap off/screw slots stripped, as any screw might.

You'll need to use a rag and wrap the large "knob" end of rod to not gouge metal with vice grips or pliers while holding rod to keep from spinning while removing screw.

Also, the rods can be any length, as long as it is outside the front of the slide's muzzle end and the spring on back side of slide is captured. The rod is only there to hold the spring's position from bending/twisting/flying around in all kinds of directions that can jam the slide while going into recoil or rebound positions during usage or take-down.
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 06-14-2016, 05:59 PM
3hounds 3hounds is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: PA.
Posts: 552
Likes: 367
Liked 104 Times in 83 Posts
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriumphMan View Post
3hounds.
That small screw will be hard to remove. It's been loctited, to ensure it won't loosen up on it's own, with usage over time.

Just be slow and don't twist in large amounts as the screw head could snap off/screw slots stripped, as any screw might.

You'll need to use a rag and wrap the large "knob" end of rod to not gouge metal with vice grips or pliers while holding rod to keep from spinning while removing screw.

Also, the rods can be any length, as long as it is outside the front of the slide's muzzle end and the spring on back side of slide is captured. The rod is only there to hold the spring's position from bending/twisting/flying around in all kinds of directions that can jam the slide while going into recoil or rebound positions during usage or take-down.
Thanks for the info on the screw, trying to find soldering iron to heat it up.

As far as the Guide Rode being longer, I measured from the outside of the big end to the outside of the washer that holds the spring on.

I didn't actually measure the Guide Rod itself but the outside dimensions where it touches each end of Pistol.

It's about .040 longer compared to the stock rod due to the washer holding the spring on.

Going to try to get screw out and remove washer and see if it still stacks ?

Easier said then done, might lose spring, eye, bend spring, ect....

Thanks, 3

Last edited by 3hounds; 06-14-2016 at 06:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 06-14-2016, 06:12 PM
S&W Rover's Avatar
S&W Rover S&W Rover is offline
Member
SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 764
Liked 687 Times in 324 Posts
Default

Best thread ever on the SD forum. Not always easy to follow, but important stuff and serious discussion. #1 takeaway is that I have returned to the stock OEM S&W guide rod and recoil spring.
__________________
S&W Rover
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need Help! Reinstalled Slide without Takedown Lever tlm511 Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 3 01-05-2016 05:25 AM
Takedown lever issue hmbiohazard Smith & Wesson SD & Sigma Pistols 5 08-03-2014 05:31 PM
loose takedown lever catches slide during reassembly LTrain14 Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 0 03-09-2014 08:05 PM
Corrosion on slide and takedown lever asawoo Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 4 10-14-2012 10:46 AM
New M&P 45-weak slide release/takedown lever? 2S&W's=W's Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 4 03-08-2012 07:34 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:17 AM.


© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)