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  #251  
Old 06-27-2016, 06:43 PM
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Default Galloway recoil guide rod assm.

Eric from Galloway Precision has sent me a revised guide rod assm. for my SD9ve. The new one is 16#, they have removed the washer and the screw has a wider head, also the pad has been made thinner. the revised guide assembly now lets the slide retract the same as the stock guide rod. waiting to try it out
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  #252  
Old 06-27-2016, 09:32 PM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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Another reason to keep your firearms at factory standard. There are those who know what they are doing tinkering with their guns, but I suspect most are like me and would just assume metal parts are innately better than plastic parts. Not in my current skill set.
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  #253  
Old 06-28-2016, 02:48 PM
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Default guide rod replacement

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Originally Posted by HOUSTON RICK View Post
Another reason to keep your firearms at factory standard. There are those who know what they are doing tinkering with their guns, but I suspect most are like me and would just assume metal parts are innately better than plastic parts. Not in my current skill set.
I take it that you don't even change your grips.

Last edited by TS7424; 06-28-2016 at 09:41 PM.
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  #254  
Old 06-28-2016, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS7424 View Post
Eric from Galloway Precision has sent me a revised guide rod assm. for my SD9ve. The new one is 16#, they have removed the washer and the screw has a wider head, also the pad has been made thinner. the revised guide assembly now lets the slide retract the same as the stock guide rod. waiting to try it out
When I last spoke to Eric, he said all of the issues he had encountered were with the SD40VE, and none reported with the SD9VE. It was being presumed that the SD9VE's were fine and the problem was only with the SD40VE.

So, I'm curious... Did the first aftermarket spring you had in the SD9VE stack prior to reaching the slide stop on the frame?
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  #255  
Old 06-28-2016, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidnne View Post
When I last spoke to Eric, he said all of the issues he had encountered were with the SD40VE, and none reported with the SD9VE. It was being presumed that the SD9VE's were fine and the problem was only with the SD40VE.

So, I'm curious... Did the first aftermarket spring you had in the SD9VE stack prior to reaching the slide stop on the frame?
Not that accurate but judging by the slide return when pulled back until it stopped then marking the barrel, doing this both the stock guide rod and the after market one, the slide looked like it was stopping just short of the slide stop.
I believe that the lower loads and smaller caliber are keeping the SD9's from having the same problem show up as much. but with time and more rounds who knows.
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  #256  
Old 06-28-2016, 10:16 PM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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I take it that you don't even change your grips.
Not if I like them and so far I do.
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  #257  
Old 06-28-2016, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS7424 View Post
Not that accurate but judging by the slide return when pulled back until it stopped then marking the barrel, doing this both the stock guide rod and the after market one, the slide looked like it was stopping just short of the slide stop.
I believe that the lower loads and smaller caliber are keeping the SD9's from having the same problem show up as much. but with time and more rounds who knows.
I'd have to agree with that. If the aftermarket spring is stacking on the SD9VE, then it is still transferring the slide movement energy to the tabs. The force of the 9mm is less than the .40, so the issues have not presented themselves, YET.

I'd imagine in a couple years, as people get their round counts up, we're going to start hearing about the 9 having issues from people who are still using the old aftermarket springs.
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  #258  
Old 06-29-2016, 01:37 AM
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Default Aftermarket RSA

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Originally Posted by Sidnne View Post
I'd have to agree with that. If the aftermarket spring is stacking on the SD9VE, then it is still transferring the slide movement energy to the tabs. The force of the 9mm is less than the .40, so the issues have not presented themselves, YET.

I'd imagine in a couple years, as people get their round counts up, we're going to start hearing about the 9 having issues from people who are still using the old aftermarket springs.
It seems to me that everyone who has installed an aftermarket RSA would want to immediately want to check slide travel with and without the recoil spring and barrel installed.

(Don't just remove the spring for the test, getting the slide off with the barrel still in takes extra steps.)
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  #259  
Old 06-29-2016, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOUSTON RICK View Post
Another reason to keep your firearms at factory standard. There are those who know what they are doing tinkering with their guns, but I suspect most are like me and would just assume metal parts are innately better than plastic parts. Not in my current skill set.
this is why by testing and improving we are using cartridges instead of flintlocks
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  #260  
Old 07-06-2016, 06:28 PM
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I think I remember warning of this.

plastic guide rod replacement

#66

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  #261  
Old 12-06-2016, 12:12 AM
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I want to bump this thread, because this is a very important issue that people should be aware of.
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  #262  
Old 12-09-2016, 01:33 PM
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Unfortunately, I found this thread after I already purchased the 21# galloway guide rod for my sd40 ve. Of course the photos and first hand accounts of the steel rods breaking off the frame tabs was worrisome but then also read that Galloway had slightly tweeked the design/spring to fix the problem. Still felt uneasy.....

so I sent an email to galloway to check on 2 things.

1. was the rod I purchased from amazon(to get free ship) guaranteed to be one of the "fixed" design rods directly from GP.

Yes they assured me only the new rods were shipping directly from them, even on amazon orders.

2. Was the problem taken seriously and specifically addressed so that SD40 owners can safely use the product without risking damage to the tabs. Here was the response on that...

"The problem wasn't with the guide rod, it was an anomaly in the pistol itself. We addressed the issue with the pistols themselves and changed the design of the guide rod to
accommodate any other tolerance anomalies in the pistol frame in the future."


I don't like parts of that answer to be honest. IMO the original problem WAS with the GP guide rod/spring assembly. If it wasnt, then even sd40ve's with stock guide rods would be experiencing damage/breakage of the frame tabs that are chipping or breaking off. However, he did mention the change in design to the guide rod which i see in [@]TS7424 's photo for sd9 guide rods.

When i get home I'm going to find a comparison pic for the sd40 rods to see if my supposedly new design rod is visibly different and then Ill try the test racking the slide with the stock spring and the 21# GP spring. If i understand right, the slide should stop in the exact same position for both correct? and if not then that's definitely a problem still?

I still decided to test the GP rod at the range and put about 80 rounds through the gun. Upon disassembly, I couldn't see any visual damage to the tabs although they're small to see but I am pretty convinced that I did find 2 very small shavings of black polymer on the steel butt of the guide rod so it worries me that it could have been hitting the frame/tabs but I cant be sure. I'm going test it at the range one more time with 50 rounds but this time get a magnifying glass and see if I can notice any evidence on the tabs or shavings on the rod end with the magnifying glass. I will take some before and after pics.

If anyone has any better feedback or proof that the sd40 rods have successfully been fixed please let me know as I want to like this product but definitely not with risk of frame breakage.
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  #263  
Old 12-09-2016, 05:34 PM
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This is a great thread. Worthwhile to make a summary of it available to all.

I sent an email to Galloway today and indicated I bought one of their guide rods a while ago, and was worried about it... they dispatched a new one to me, without hesitation, to replace the old one -- at no cost to me. I am impressed by their service and their attitude towards this whole thing, which I think is very professional. The problem can be defined as a small number of frames don't play well with their guide rods, and I guess you could blame the guide rods -- or the frames. (I've also seen some reports of factory plastic guide rods breaking, which may have a similar -- or a totally different -- cause).

Do the newly redesigned guide rods cause a problem? I suspect they are far less likely to do so. I'm going to run the new GP guide rod (I love shooting the SD; the darn thing is just plain reliable) for a while but keep an eye on the tabs inside the frame over time. I like to give all pistols a more stringent cleaning (e.g., the striker channel, inside mag wells, inside mags, etc.) about once a year or so, and I look for things like excessive wear or damage, so I don't think I'll be caught by surprise.

Added (3/7/17): Shortly after my post (above) I came to the conclusion I would return to the factory guide rod and spring, which I have done. I've only shot the SD9 a couple of times in the past three months, but the factory guide rod works well and I think I will stick with it.
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  #264  
Old 12-09-2016, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&W Rover View Post
The problem can be defined as a small number of frames don't play well with their guide rods, and I guess you could blame the guide rods -- or the frames.
No...it's not the frames or the 'guide rods', it's the springs that were on the rods.
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  #265  
Old 12-09-2016, 10:54 PM
Steve912 Steve912 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullenAZ View Post

When i get home <snip> Ill try the test racking the slide with the stock spring and the 21# GP spring. If i understand right, the slide should stop in the exact same position for both correct? and if not then that's definitely a problem still?
Yes, and yes...

There's one way to be 100% certain you don't have excessive 'spring stack length'.

1. Pull slide and set barrel and RSA aside.

2. Replace slide and press slide to full rearward travel

3. Eyeball slide from side, and put a fine pencil mark on
frame (put some masking tape there first if concerned).
That mark is the same place the slide must stop, when
a spring IS present.

4. Remove slide (pull forward against striker, pull trigger)
and reinstall barrel, RSA & slide.

5. Pull slide fully to rear. If slide edge doesn't come back far
enough to match pencil mark (even by a hair), the recoil spring
mount area will be seeing undue force during firing cycle.

If slide stops at same point, all's good, at least as far as
spring stackage goes.

Edit: the technical term for a spring's achieving an incompressible
status (ie 'as short as it can get when you squish it down and all
the coils are touching') is solid length. Excessive
solid length was the problem with the springs that caused frame
damage.

Last edited by Steve912; 03-07-2017 at 06:59 PM. Reason: Add 'solid length' terminology.
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  #266  
Old 03-07-2017, 06:24 PM
Eric S. Eric S. is offline
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I bought a Galloway rod for my SD9VE in early 2016 and didn't shoot much with it yet, but came across comments on YouTube videos about possible damage. I had a 20lb. rod and I chose a 19lb. replacement (20lb. was no longer offered), no questions asked.

I just did the spring/springless stack test mentioned in the post above and all seems to be uniform. I guess I'll keep shooting with it.

Last edited by Eric S.; 03-07-2017 at 06:25 PM.
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  #267  
Old 03-07-2017, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve912 View Post
No...it's not the frames or the 'guide rods', it's the springs that were on the rods.
You are right -- the guide rods are fine, its the length of the stacked spring captive on the rod that can cause the serious problem with the frame.

The Galloway folks told me that many SDs are not affected, as there are variances in the dimensions inside the frames, which echoes what mullenAZ and others have been told.

Metal guide rods are attractive and stronger than plastic ones, and there will always be folks wanting to upgrade their SD pistol with metal guide rods - the questions comes up on this forum all the time! This thread captures the issues and potential concerns about the Galloway guide rods/springs -- and by doing so, represents how valuable this forum can be.

As one SD user, I finally decided to stick with the factory (plastic) guide rod, taking all of this in balance -- but I give Galloway credit for addressing the problem experienced with their earlier guide rods/springs.
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  #268  
Old 03-21-2017, 04:07 PM
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I wish i'd seen all this earlier, i replaced my factory guide rod with the GP 20# about 100 rounds in and then only got about 500 more before this issue occurred. S&W just replaced my pistol (after 5 weeks in "pistol repair"). I think i'll be sending an email to GP as well. Thanks for all the info!!!
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  #269  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:20 PM
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Just a comment which may be inaccurate.

I think that in addition to the spring stacking issue, some folks have reported damage to the slide where the metal RSA engages at the front.
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  #270  
Old 03-23-2017, 06:26 PM
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Just to state the obvious. This may or may not be an issue just for SD's. Some may not know that the frames on Sigmas are basically the same as SD's and considerations should be contemplated before swapping out guide rods. I know this thread has made me think twice as I have returned the plastic GRA to my SW40VE. I am quite sure that the frame on my Sigma at this time is pretty much irreplaceable. Has anyone had issues with their Sigma frame failing after changing out guide rods?
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  #271  
Old 03-24-2017, 07:10 PM
Coop de Ville Coop de Ville is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffBreton View Post
Just to state the obvious. This may or may not be an issue just for SD's. Some may not know that the frames on Sigmas are basically the same as SD's and considerations should be contemplated before swapping out guide rods. I know this thread has made me think twice as I have returned the plastic GRA to my SW40VE. I am quite sure that the frame on my Sigma at this time is pretty much irreplaceable. Has anyone had issues with their Sigma frame failing after changing out guide rods?
Yes, many years ago. If you can't find my post, I will find it tomorrow when I have access to a computer. I believe mine was an ISMI 22# spring.

Regards

Sorry, still looking.
In short, put an ISMI metal 22# spring in my 40E and soon after those 2 plastic tabs broke. The slide took a nose dive at the range.
S&W replaced the frame.. I put it back to stock and that's that.

Last edited by Coop de Ville; 03-25-2017 at 09:41 PM.
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  #272  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:07 PM
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This is a great thread!

Has anyone had any new updates from using the newest version Galloway recoil spring assembly sent out as replacements to people who emailed them for the SD9VE and SD40VE? Or even any feedback from people who purchased and have only owned the "newest version", and any issue or no signs of issues since being installed and shooting their gun?

It would be very helpful to know!

Also, it would be extremely helpful for me personally and i think many others, if ANYONE would be willing to post a how to" video on how to measure check and confirm if your gun with an aftermarket Galloway recoil spring assembly may have stacking issues compared to the factory recoil spring assembly. I'm just a big visual learner and my mind understands instruction much better visually, as im having trouble understanding Steve912's written instructions in his post above and quoted here:


""Quote:
Originally Posted by mullenAZ View Post:

When i get home Ill try the test racking the slide with the stock spring and the 21# GP spring. If i understand right, the slide should stop in the exact same position for both correct? and if not then that's definitely a problem still?"

Yes, and yes...

There's one way to be 100% certain you don't have excessive 'spring stack length'.

1. Pull slide and set barrel and RSA aside.

2. Replace slide and press slide to full rearward travel

3. Eyeball slide from side, and put a fine pencil mark on
frame (put some masking tape there first if concerned).
That mark is the same place the slide must stop, when
a spring IS present.

4. Remove slide (pull forward against striker, pull trigger)
and reinstall barrel, RSA & slide.

5. Pull slide fully to rear. If slide edge doesn't come back far
enough to match pencil mark (even by a hair), the recoil spring
mount area will be seeing undue force during firing cycle.

If slide stops at same point, all's good, at least as far as
spring stackage goes.

Edit: the technical term for a spring's achieving an incompressible
status (ie 'as short as it can get when you squish it down and all
the coils are touching') is solid length. Excessive
solid length was the problem with the springs that caused frame
damage.
""

Last edited by jnbr19867; 03-30-2017 at 12:14 PM.
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  #273  
Old 04-29-2017, 08:31 AM
patz patz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidnne View Post
I've run into another issue with my SD40VE. I've got around 1,600 rounds through it, and after my most recent trip to the range this week, the takedown lever stays depressed after putting the slide on. When I pull the trigger (dry-firing of course) the slide comes right off. If the slide is pulled back and cocked, then the slide stays on, because the trigger needs to be pulled in order to takedown the sdve. What appears to be happening, is the guide rod is hitting against the takedown lever and preventing the lever from coming back up and locking the slide on.

After examining, and comparing to a friend's sd40ve, I noticed that there are supposed to be tabs in front of the takedown lever, which apparently stop the guide rob from touching the takedown lever. On mine, those tabs have broken off.

I did install a Galloway stainless steel guide rod with a 20 lb spring, but I installed that at around the 200 round mark, so I've fired around 1,300 rounds with the Galloway guide rod installed.

I'm pretty sure my only option is to send it in to S&W for repair/replacement. But, I was curious if anyone else has experience this issue, and also to make others aware of the issue and to keep an eye on those tabs. They don't appear to be very sturdy and look to break off very easily.

I've included photos that show what I'm talking about:







I just got my SD40VE and the take down lever was so hard to pull down I got an extended lever to replace it. When I depressed the spring it stayed down and now I can't get it back up. I already replaced the trigger and springs with the Apex set so I'm sure no warranty. I have modified my Bodyguard and Glock so I know how. My question is has anyone replaced the spring for the slide lock? I don't look forward to removing the trigger and guts again. One other question, on my Glock the little tab on the slide lock lever faced the rear of the gun, is it the same on the SDVE. I got stainless guide rod and 20# spring but after reading these posts I think I will leave the stock one in.
Thanks for any help.

Last edited by patz; 04-29-2017 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:42 AM
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SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
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does anyone have the email address for who to email at galloway if you purchased a RSA from them in the past
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:15 PM
patz patz is offline
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SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
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does anyone have the email address for who to email at galloway if you purchased a RSA from them in the past
tech@gallowayprecision.com
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  #276  
Old 09-15-2017, 04:34 AM
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brchambersjr brchambersjr is offline
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SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue SD40VE ~1600 rds, broken frame/slide takedown lever issue  
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Just an opinion, but I would suggest that people learn how a gun works before attempting any "gunsmithing"

Bill
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