First, I HAVE looked through over 40 pages of threads in this subforum for an answer....didn't find it.

Does anyone know what the "official accuracy spec" is for the SD9VE with the 4.25" barrel? That is, how tight a group should an SD9VE shoot at any given specific distance straight off the factory line?

I read a few personal anecdotes offered by forum members, but didn't find anything "official" in forums. Otoh, one of those personal anecdotes stated an expectation of 3-4" @ 25 yards which seems a bit large to me. But if that's what the pistol is designed for accuracy-wise, I guess I'll learn to accept that number.

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USPSA A_97882

Ok. Nothing " official" specific for SD9VE, but yes, for any pistol of that general catagory, ie service/ duty grade 9mm, with random decent quality ammo, you would expect most loads to be within 3-4in @ 25yds . A loading your particular pistol really likes might do around 2.5 , and you would brag about it.

If you wanted groups half that size, you would need to trade for a 4inch K Frame .38spl.

I can tell you my 40E will do that., maybe better with a rest. Not sure if an official test exists, but I don't expect it's any worse than Glock..

Wish I had a better answer :-(

I started to wonder about "factory spec accuracy" after reading on another forum about "long distance" accuracy. Most of the respondents were using mostly stock Glock 17s, only 1, think, was using a S&W M&P and a few either CZ's or Berettas. They were shooting at B-8 and B-36 targets at 25 and 50 yards. The better of them were reporting/showing pictures of 2-3 inch groups at 25yds and 4-7 inches at 50yd distances. The less-skilled were reporting 7-10 inch groups and being disappointed. Nearly all of them reported "flyers" which can probably be attributed to "operator error".

So, I'm basically trying to "baseline" my own expectations & knowledge of the SD9VE in comparison to other pistols. Also, USPSA and IDPA matches do include some "long-range" shots (18-40 yds) and if "my" pistol's not capable of that with consistency, then that needs to be taken into account.

My SD9VE is primarily a SD/HD weapon for me, but I'll probably shoot a few matches with it for fun, experience and something different to do.

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USPSA A_97882

I wouldn't be able to generate a 2.5" group at 25 yards with an (Imaginary) perfect pistol.

On the other hand I did much better than that, I think at 50 ft., on the rifle team many years ago. Much difference between a pistol and a long gun.

I'm not super experienced at shooting handguns. I do have minimal experience with GLOCK, M&P9 and much more with my SD9VE. I shoot them all almost identical.

Yeah, at first I thought of my own experience back before the age of dinosaurs when I was in the Army (yeah, I was both Army and Navy) shooting M-14's then M-16's. On good days, I had 1-2" groups at 50 feet with iron sights on either. With a competition match-grade barrel on an M-1 back in high school JROTC, I actually shot .75" groups at 50 feet. I doubt I could do either today without lots of practice and quite probably not even then.

So, rifle proficiency doesn't directly translate to pistols... at least for me.

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USPSA A_97882

from page 41 of the manual, not sure why they don't have to include the 4" or greater

The certification below is required only for handguns sold in the
United States with a barrel length shorter than 3”.
Smith & Wesson Corp. hereby certifies average accuracy test results for
all new handguns with a barrel shorter than 3” as follows:
7 yards 14 yards 21 yards

1.7” 3.9” 6.3”

This certification is based on tests conducted by Smith & Wesson Corp.
using a fixed handgun, rest and firing ammunition manufactured by a
member of the Shooting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute
(SAAMI) as defined in ANSI/SAAMI Z299.3-1993.
This certification represents actual tests based on several handguns,
selected at random. Your particular handgun may have accuracy better
than the results stated in this certification

Thanks star1. Yeah, that is strange they'd include that and not anything for the longer barrels. But it's a "starting point" for my baseline knowledge.

I don't have a manual (it was missing when I got my "new"/display_case pistol).

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USPSA A_97882

drmweaver2:
Here is a pdf copy!

https://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstor...07_15_2014.pdf

mb

IDPA does not give credit for "group size" and the "zero down" or perfect hit area is 8" in diameter. The maximum range shot is 35yd (scenario stages max 25yd) and 75% of the shots are within 15yd. The head is 6" square, and head shots must be 10yds or less. The entire target is 18" wide. There are 18 rounds per stage maximum required.

So any gun/ammo setup that can hit an 8" circle at 35 yds is capable of perfect scores. Unless you have bad equipment, the shooter is usually the limitation. If you are shooting Novice scores, and buy a $2000 custom gun capable of 2" at 35yds, you will then be shooting....wait for it.......NOVICE SCORES.

My advice to every beginner is to SHOOT WHAT YOU HAVE until you learn the game and at least get to shooting mid Marksman scores before you do anything to the gun. Right now, you don't know what the equipment division choices are, much less what you are eventually going to prefer. And the first thing you are going to learn is IDPA shooting is mostly lots of quick close-range shooting with flash sight pictures, front sight only, point shooting, strong hand, weak hand, shooting while moving, and gun handling. Stuff you might actually use in Defensive shooting; thus the name International Defensive Pistol Association (IDPA).

The SD9VE is fine for an entry level Stock Service Pistol (SSP) Division gun. The last time a shooter asked me (after a match) to check what was wrong with his gun, I emptied the magazine into the head at about 15yd, handed it back to him and said "Nothing. Have you considered taking a class?"

IDPA Match Director since 2004.

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Science plus Art

Thanks a bunch.

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USPSA A_97882

Good info, most of it absolutely valid.
But KNOWING the gun's specifications can't hurt. Which is why I asked. I'm not a "blame the gun" type of guy. But, the Net if full of stories where even S&W M&P Pro's aren't shooting to "spec", whatever that happens to be. So, other than just pulling the trigger, ya gotta start somewhere.

To be honest, if/when I compete it's strictly going to be for fun. I have no expectations of "winning", achveing USPSA Grand Master class status or anything equivalent to that in IDPA. But, if the pistol won't consistently hit that 6 or 8 inch plate at 15-plus yards, then trying to shoot head shots with no shoot areas on the same target might be more than this particular gun-shooter combo can handle.

At some point, I expect the gun won't be an issue - if it's not an issue straight from the factory line, so much the better. Right now, I just don't know. The reason for asking about group size "spec" has to do with probabilities. No pistol's gonna be perfect. Otoh, if the spec says the pistol's reliably capable of 95% of rounds in a 10 shot group landing within 3" @ 25 yards, then that's a known point of reference. Should be able to hit that max distance head shot you mentioned if the shooter does what he's supposed to.

I am not assuming anything - that I have an exceptionally accurate pistol for its model or that mine is the opposite, a dog that can't hit the side of the barn from 2 feet. I haven't shot it enough and i certainly haven't bench-tested it and am not sure if it's worth the effort/expense. I just want a factory "official" data point for comparison if it's available.

But thanks for your input...though it wasn't directly responsive to the question posed.

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USPSA A_97882

I highly doubt S&W or many other companies for that matter really have an accuracy spec. for their pistols.

I believe Les Baer and maybe Wilson guarantee their pistols to shoot within "X" inches at "Y" yards, but those are custom/semi-custom builders. A company like S&W cranks out hundreds of these things a day. I don't think they have the time, resources or the desire to obtain even an average accuracy standard for their pistols.

Maybe if they had a large Gov. contract, and the Gov. insisted that the pistols meet some sort of accuracy standard S&W would have an accuracy spec. the pistols should meet, but they don't - and I highly doubt they ever will. Let's face it - the SD9VE is a $300 entry level budget pistol. I don't think S&W cares too much about any kind of accuracy standard that it may or may not meet.

You're welcome, but it is directly pertinent. But if you want it in math/statistics terms, then here it is.
1. Statistics derived from a large number of samples, when applied to a sample of one, have a confidence factor near zero. So the only valid way to determine the dispersal of your ONE shooting system is to measure it. The only way to determine each contribution is separate measure.
2. Dispersal from each cause, if random, do not simply add together. The formula for combining independent dispersal is:

1/ (total dispersal) (square) = 1/(gun dispersal)(square) + 1/(ammo dispersal)(square) + 1/(shooter dispersal)(square)

If we plug in some sample numbers, we can do what is called a sensitivity analysis. We'll use units of mean group size at 25yds for convenience.
a. Shooter dispersal 6"; gun dispersal 5"; ammo dispersal 2".
Plug these in and we get total dispersal of 8".
b. Now the same shooter gets a much better gun:
Shooter dispersal 6"; gun dispersal 2"; ammo dispersal 2". Plug these in and our nimrod is still seeing total dispersal of 6.6". Getting a gun capable of 3" smaller groups only produces 1.4" reduction in the total dispersal.

The limit in our analysis, if this shooter had a perfect gun and perfect ammo (zero dispersal) ( and infinite cost) is he should get 6" groups.

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Science plus Art

Fwiw, I have a pretty good math background... with numerous hours in probability, both at the undergrad and graduate level. So, while I'll agree that your math explanation, while technically correct for what you wrote, is "correct" on some level, it remains irrelevant to my question.

I asked if anyone knew of any official specs.
Math explanations saying the statistics of this or that make the specs useless are not relevant.
Why I ask should be irrelevant to receiving an answer.


This is a very simple question numerouis people have asked about various weapons over the years. It's not a State secret (or shouldn't be) and it's something other people have gotten answers to over the years whether it was a Glock, a S&W, a Beretta or whatever.

Everyone is different and uses information as they will. Some throw it out immediately. Others find ways to incorporate it into whatever they are pursuing.

I am just interested in the numbers if there are any official ones. I don't know why this is hard to accept.

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USPSA A_97882

try shooting from a rest, every gun will shoot a little different and you really only need to know what your gun will do. I've read some posts where a shooter was not happy with his M&P 9mm FS , sent it in several times to S&W and finally replaced the barrel with an APEX semi custom fit and got much better groups right off the bat

If someone were to return a ( whatever) under warranty aledging a lack of accuracy, S&W probably has internal guideline threasholds for performing major work or replacing it under warranty. But they wouldn't publicly make those known. Unless someone here has anecdotal report of his warranty experiences, or a S&W employee shares with us on the QT, we will probably remain in the dark.

But to get an understanding of your specific pistol isn't complicated or particularly expensive. If you otherwise practice with this SD, it can be done within your existing shooting activities.

To minimize shooter variables, use an expedient rest, or a braced two hand position as you are comfortable in using. Shoot a couple of 5 shot groups. Use acpl different ammunition. Compare to your typical groups with your other pistols. If comparable, you can be assured the SD isn't a limiting factor for you.

If you don't feel confidant in your precision shooting technique, have a friend or gun club member with confidence using strimer fired pistols shoot for you. Most people would happily test someone's pistol using factory ammo for the enjoyment, and their own curriosity.

And therein lies the question... if someone has the info, would they please post it in this thread.

Whew... how difficult was that?

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USPSA A_97882

I am not aware of any gun manufacturer releasing to the public expected accuracy other than the accuracy statement for short barreled SD guns and I think there is a legal requirement there.

Exception to this are high priced bullseye guns for high level target shooting.

Late night and nothing better to do than review older threads... so I'm sorta re-opening this one.

From another thread talking about the Apex barrel for the M&P Pro 9...(underlining for emphasis BY ME)...
http://smith-wessonforum.com/139240041-post376.htmlThis post is relevant to this thread in that it duplicates my own reasons for wondering about the "accuracy spec" of the SD9VE and as a point of comparison between the M&P Pro 9 series and the SD9VE. I would have to assume that you should expect to have better from the factory accuracy on the more expensive weapon. But if the M&P Pro 9 series IS spec'd at only 3" groups at 25 yards, then where does the SD9VE stand?

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USPSA A_97882

Are you competing? If so in what category? Not all competitions require precision accuracy.

Then there's ammo. Not all ammo is equal. Just cause there are two 124gr bullets doesn't mean they'll perform the same in your gun. Brass makes a difference too. So does the amount of powder. And in the end it's still a service grade/duty pistol. You'll only get so much out of it.

I'd be less concerned with official specs and more with practice. Specs sent going to get you results, practice will

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Another response that just doesn't "get it". It's a simple question. Why I asked the question and what I'll do with the answer or how it will affect me is totally irrelevant.

Thanks for playing.

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USPSA A_97882

Well then how's about you do research and THEN buy! Simple enough of an answer for ya?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Yes. S&W knows. Call 'em.

These folks are trying to be as helpful as they can.

I can't help you but if I could I would not even try, based on your responses to date.

Let's see. I asked if anyone knew something specific about the SD9VE. A few responses were simply irrelevant. Others say they don't believe the info is available. I post from another thread that similar info on another S&W pistol has been available, which suggests that the SD9VE info is out there somewhere. I haven't been able to get it from S&W itself.

I'm a pretty straight-forward kinda guy. I don't know why it is so hard for others to either say they don't know (in which case they can't be helpful anyway) and let it go -or- simply not respond (which keeps the discussion on point).

But go ahead. Imply (or simply say it straight out) that I'm being unreasonable. That doesn't bother me at all.

I'd still like to know the "spec'd" accuracy of the SD9VE straight off the assembly-line...if anyone knows.

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USPSA A_97882

Well, this is entry number 28 on this thread, several by the OP. It's clear that no one can respond to his liking.

And yes, I agree with drmweaver2 that he is indeed being unreasonable.

I think the folks on this forum and in this thread have tried to help this fellow but he seems to mock them for not understanding or not knowing.

Perhaps he should move on to some forum that can answer his question to his satisfaction.