Hello, I picked up a sd9ve the other day just because. I have other guns and have carried concealed for almost 15 years. I cleaned it and took out to my range. I really like this gun. I bought a shield when they came out and the grip was too thin for me to shoot comfortably. This gun fits my medium sized hand great. I ran my top three picks of carry ammo and a box of fmj through it. No problems what so ever. I have found myself picking it to carry the past few days. Now for my question. I choose to carry gold dots in 124 +P in my 9mm guns. The manual states no +p+ but I topically shoot some of my carry ammo every month so my guns see a fair amount of +p use. Has anyone had a problem using over pressured ammo in their sd?


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The SD9VE has more MIM parts and doesn't have a steel chassis in the frame like the M&P or other more expensive handguns. There has been more anecdotal evidence of breakages and parts failures in the SD9 series than in most higher end handguns.
In my opinion, I wouldn't shoot +P+ in it and keep +P to a minimum. In fact, I keep the round counts (standard pressure) of most of my horde of SD9s low and those are the ones I carry or use for home defense.
That said, I do trust the SD9 to perform in a defensive situation should I need it to. I typically load mine with 115 or 124 grain standard pressure Speer Gold Dot, whereas I load my M&Ps with 124 gr +P Gold Dot or Gold Dot Short Barrel.

If you are determined to shoot high pressure rounds and since you mentioned using this for self defense, I would:

1. Inspect the handgun more frequently (striker, guide rod, rails, etc)
2. Change to a stronger recoil spring and/or steel guide rod
3. Replace springs more frequently
4. Keep round count low

Hope this helps

After taking an M&P and SD apart and comparing the two pistols it looks like both pistols have a steel chassis. In fact, both pistols are so similar it would be hard to tell the difference between the two other than the take down lever on the M&P.

Only the M&P has steel embedded in the polymer frame. You can't see it because it's covered with polymer. The SD9 frame doesn't have this and many samples of the SD9 will show frame flex just from pulling the trigger.

More MIM than the M&P? Ok, what's MIM on the SD's that's not MIM, on the M&P's?

Whoever told you there's no steel inserts in the SD frames, lied.

"More anecdotal evidence of breakages and parts failures..than most higher end handguns." Quite a lawyer-ly turn of the phrase, there. How do you reconcile that with the known mag spring and RSA problems in the M&P line, with the known issues in the SD series--wait, there aren't any known issues with the SD series...

Have you ever actually seen either of these pistols?

If there's a polymer-framed pistol out there without steel inserts, I'd be hard pressed to name it.

Have I ever seen an M&P or SD9? ROFL
Why yes, yes I have.
Did I ever say the SD9 didn't contain any metal parts? No
Of course it does. It does not however contain the steel chassis embedded in the polymer frame that the M&P has.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that the SD9 series has an embedded steel chassis in the frame?

Let'd go back to what the manual actually says. Any SAAMI ammunition in 9mm may be used in your pistol. +P is SAAMI ammunition, and it is NOT "Overpressure."
In plain English, +P may be used in your pistol all you want, and it will not blow apart. The more ammunition you shoot, and the more powerful ammunition you use, the faster you wear out the pistol. I have been using the SW/SD pistols for loaners and trainers since 1996, and have never had a major component failure. The trigger spring is the most likely item to fail. I change the stock recoil assemblies when they start to look ratty, but none has ever failed in service.
Typically, I sell my well-used guns because someone wants the smooth action (a lot of shooting will do that).
Look at it this way: If you decide to replace your pistol at 50,00 rounds of commercial 9mm ammo, you will have spent $10,00 on ammunition shooting your $300 pistol, which S&W will fix for free if it does fail.

__________________
Science plus Art

Isn't it just in the two areas where the slide tabs are, or is there more?

I'll try and post a pic tomorrow...

You're saying the M&P and SD series are "different", in grip frame construction--are you saying the M&P difference makes it better than the SD?

Still waiting for your list of "more MIM parts" in the SD series...

Yes, I'm saying the embedded steel chassis of the M&P makes it 'better' than the SD9VE. If it didn't provide some advantage, why would S&W implement it on the M&P?

Still waiting for your proof of steel chassis on the SD9 series

Maybe there is someone on this thread with access to an X-ray system to clarify all of this.

Years ago I had a summer job in a shipyard x-raying ship welds. Just for fun we made x-rays of watches, etc.

Very revealing and interesting.

(As a side comment now, I usually get copies of my medical x-rays, on a CD of course, usually with a display program.)

Or maybe someone will step up and take one for the team, and bust their frame open with a hammer (like I used to do when I was a little kid to "see what was on the inside" of a Tonka truck ! )

So you're saying because S&W did it (and it's different), it is therefore better?

Sorry, not convinced with that logic.

What about your list of MIM parts?

Photos forthcoming--working wheel bearings & CV axle at
the moment.

OK, let's set the story straight. I work in the dental industry, I took both
fames and exrayed them, they both have steel frames almost identical to each other. There are slight differences, but you would have to look through a magnifying lens to see them.

If S&W is not doing something to the M&P to make it better than my SD9VE then I am not sure how much respect I have for them. I am a fan of my pistol as I feel it is a great value. That being said I am not going to go out and equivocate it with more expensive guns like the G19 or the M&P much less a VP9 or a PPQ. I am happy for what it is, to quote hickock45, "a good little shooter."


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That's odd. I figured someone in the dental industry would know how to spell X-ray.

I'm not in the tooth business and I too struggle to spell roentgenogram.

after looking at both frames very closely, the M&P has a better more refined fire control system. Is the fire control system on the M&P worth the extra cost? I don't have the answer.

LOL!!! Looks like you got your tit in a twist. LOL! Sorry for the typo !!! LOL! I misspelled frames wrong too. LOL!

I was simply responding to your joke that you X-rayed both the SD9 and the M&P with a joke of my own. I do think we've drifted far enough in this thread though.

Is there any way you can post the xr images? I think it would be pretty cool to see and compare.

__________________
-WildBillOH
M&P .40 / SD40 VE

Oh make no mistake, it wasn't a joke. And I do work in the dental equipment industry. The joke is on you and your comment of the SD not having a steel frame. Hope you have a good one.

No, all the new xray equipment for dental use is computer enhanced. There aren't xray slides anymore, it's all viewed on a computer monitor. It's impossible to save images as every company has copy right protected software. I would have to buy the company software to save the images to a personnel computer. The last time I looked the copy right software was over $5000.00. The last system we set up cost over $100,000 for the equipment and software.

Really, you took two guns into your work and X-rayed them? Do you have a phone that can take pictures of the X-rays? I, like others, are curious to see the images is all. No need to get all bent out of shape.

I'm amazed that any dental X-Ray system have a field large enough to image a whole gun.

Also surprised that the output data can't be stored on a CD. All the medical X-Rays I have come on a CD which includes viewing software.

Maybe, if you can't post an image, you can describe the extent of the frames in general terms.

Oh for the love of god, you doubting Thomas are hilarious. Dental xray equipment doesn't scan the full size gun, the xray head can be moved to see the front and grip area. Lol! Have you ever had exrays on both sides of your teeth? Believe what you want ! Enough on this for me, I know what the SD/MP have for steel frames. Believe what you want.

I don't think it matters. Unless there are cracked, bent or broken frames showing up, who gives a ****. You guys are arguing about what is better or worse when there have been no issues with either. So what if the steel chassis is more extensive in the M&P, as long as the SD isn't having any frame failures it doesn't matter. I could easily turn it around and say "the SD is better because it functions just as well as the M&P but in a lighter, less expensive package".
Best I can tell, going along the frame with a magnet, there is a section of embedded steel under the front guide rails, above the trigger mech and all under the rear guide rails. Amazingly, just the same as my Glocks.

The locking block and sear housing block contain metal but these are removable and not embedded in the frame. I think this is what is attracting a magnet in those areas.

Not having any x-ray equipment at hand, I decided to use an Ohmmeter. This is what I found on my SD9VE, moving from front to rear.

The two front slide tabs are not connected to each other, nor to any other exposed metal. They are indeed separate pieces. That was surprising.

The "Take down bar", what we sometimes grumble about, doesn't connect to any other exposed metal.

The removable metal block which supports the take down bar, doesn't connect to any other exposed metal, not even the take down bar it supports.

The rear slide tabs are one piece and they do connect to the trigger bar and related mechanisms.

No Ohmmeter check, but it's clear that the thin sides of the frame, which flex when the trigger is pulled, can't possibly have any metal in them.

I see absolutely no way that the SD9VE has any hidden metal frame.

Same as a Glock.

I actually took my wife shooting today with our SD9VE and Shield 9. She only shot the SD, while I shot both.

Honestly, they both shoot well but I found myself being just a tad more accurate with the SD. Even my wife had no problems getting decent groupings with it and she is a novice.

It's a great gun for the money.