Not trying to argumentative, only curious.

With the success and price point of the M&P series, why does S&W continue to market the SD/Sv series? I acknowledge SD/ SV series is less expensive but is that the only reason?

I find it interesting that S&W has 2 distinct lines of full size polymer striker fired hand guns. Off the top of my head, don't know another manufacturer that continues to produce 2 separate lines like S&W does.

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Guns + Dogs= Bliss

Because it is an amazing gun at a stellar price point.

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The SD/SV series was derived from the Sigma, and the tooling has been paid for several times over by now. For those who a good gun at less than the M & P price structure (who might look to another manufacturer) it makes perfect sense to keep making them.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

It's money. Depending on the deal one finds you are talking a $150-200. Pretty significant. For me it was the difference between owning a firearm and not. Yes I could have bought used but I didn't.


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Ruger did the same thing when they came out with the 9E, a less priced and less manufacturing involved SR9

Sig has at least two different poly lines. It's probably just for a better price point. I also think CZ does now with the release of the 10c. And H&K.

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.

As long as they sell them they will make them. When I got my first pistol I went to a local range and rented a SIG SP2022 9mm. It is a great pistol.
I got a SD9VE for about $100 - $150 less. It runs flawless, is more accut=rate than I was, reliable and is a S&W.
A few years later I got a CPO P229 .40 for twice the price of the SD. But I'll never sell the SD9VE.
Eventually gifting it to one of the grand kids when they're at age and interested in shooting.
Was even thinking to get one of the new released ones (with a black slide and fiber optic sights).

Because people buy enough to make it profitable.

IT'S A HUGE OVERSEAS SELLER.

Ruger still makes the SR series along side the American pistols. They made the P- series well into SR production, too.

Even Walther makes different lines of the same size gun to service different market segments.

If S&W didn't make the SD/SV, then they would be ignoring the "economy entry" market. When non-gun people look for a first/only gun, price point is a key consideration. If you capture that initial buy, then any of those folks who wish to buy another gun will look favorably at other S&W products.

If they didn't provide something for that market segment, then they would be giving away potential customers to the competition, both in first-time buyers and follow-on sales.

Plus I believe it's Commiefornia-approved too.

Academy has them, and a lot of newbies home in on the price (or so it seems, as I spend a lot of time there with some friends who work the gun counter).

Otherwise they would be buying Taurus.

This is very true, but I also think as in my case, people want to have a few different guns available in the house. I have several other firearms, but wanted a "backup" 9mm in case any thing went wrong with my EDC had. I had a SW9, so I traded it in on the SD9VE when I started having some problems I could not find parts for repairs. It was used and the cost of sending it S&W and paying for repairs was just was not feasible compared to buying a new SD9VE.

Because S&W is in the business to make money!
Seriously, S&W has a winner here. They know that the average Joe can't afford a high $$$ handgun, so they make/sell the SD-SDVE series at an average Joe's price.

Currently a SD9VE costs $250-$300 for a basic reliable pistol. Nothing fancy, just functional. It is also $100-$150 less than a M&P. That a lot of change for some and that low cost allows them to buy a quality firearm. The SD9VE is the equivalent of the old Model 10 fixed sight revolver.

For me, I bought a SD9VE as the proverbial "truck" gun. Mine is 100% reliable and saves the finish on my other "nicer" pistols.

Just bought the sd40ve last night because of the price and now just waiting on the damn state to say I can have it


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Hardly the equivalent to a model 10. The SD has one of the worst triggers in the history of handguns while the K frames have always had smooth, crisp actions. I had an SD as my "truck gun" and I finally got rid of it because the trigger pull was so horrendous. One positive thing about the SD is that it saved me a ton of money in ammunition because I hated shooting that thing. I traded the SD for a used 4006 (my new truck gun) and I couldn't be happier.

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Useless political propaganda

Why not just get a aftermarket trigger and spring kit and still be under the $500 mark


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I put an Apex kit in mine and it went from being stiff and vague to mushy and vague. Still terrible, just different.

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Useless political propaganda

I wish they felt that way about the third gens.

But, as pointed out above, it very unlikely that it could be made profitable. Um.......How about some 'special runs', though?

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

They sell. I don't understand why people carry expensive pistols. If something happens the police are probably going to take it from you. My SD and the $30 worth of upgrades wouldn't break my heart if I ended up having to use it and it were "impounded".

Why do people state that this is a "truck gun." Why don't they just say it's a less expensive carry gun? Truck gun sounds so "REDNECK-ISH."

I understand your point. Poor word choice on my part- I probably should have said the same "concept" as a Model 10- basic, reliable, functional, no frills.

I'll agree that my SD9VE's trigger is different that any of my K frames, including my two Model 10s. Yes, the trigger on my SD9VE has a plasticy feel compared to the more crisp feel of a K frame trigger. But the plasticy feel is much less noticeable if one just pulls through as if shooting a DAO revolver. And the pull weight is similar between my SD9VE and my un altered M10.

And I agree with Nimbly.

Also I never could understand using the term "truck gun" to represent a gun you just have , but not one you really trust. If that is what they have...I do not want to ride with them.

I don't see the SD9VE (SD for "self-defense", VE for "value edition") as a really good concealed carry gun or as a gun that its owner can't really trust. I believe S&W's target market is mainly home and personal defense, and for that it is adequate if it's all you can afford.

I've always understood "truck gun" to mean an inexpensive, easily replaceable gun that you wouldn't really mind terribly if it got a little banged-up, dirty or even stolen (like stolen out of your truck). I don't recall anything about a "truck gun" having to be unreliable or untrustable. That doesn't make sense to me.

For me, the SD9VE is a cheap, no-nonsense, easy-to-use, readily deployable without going broke home protection piece. No more, no less.

Other than the Shields, it's the only S&W semi that can be bought new here. The full size and compact M&P's are not approved for sale, so if you find one for sale it has to be sold ppt and you'll pay a premium over what the MSRP is.

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Peace was my Profession

Yep. And in my moonbat state it's the only brand spanking new Smith & Wesson pistol (both versions, 9mm & .40) that you can buy from a dealer for which legal "pre-ban" hi-cap magazines are still available.

From what I've been told, the company wants to be able to market a standard size plastic pistol that can be sold as low as down in the $250 range, for buyers interested in a low cost, affordable, decently made handgun for home/self defense.

I once asked if there was going to be an armorer class for the SD. The answer was no, and the reason offered was that the SD line wasn't intended for LE sales, so there was no anticipated need for LE armorer training for the SD line.

I can't remember the last time I saw the older Sigma line included in the list of armorer classes, but it's been a while. My class was toward the end of the 90's, and there were revisions occurring after that time.

I've never even looked inside the SD series, nor fired one.

The armorer class for the SW99/P99 pistol was dropped from the list of available armorer classes, too, although I was told that the S&W academy would still provide armorer recert for an existing agency customer if they continued to use the SW99's (if they hadn't been able to be talked into trading them for M&P's). I was told of one such special agency, off the public radar, so to speak, who had (then) recently requested such a class for their SW99's.

I was surprised any of them were still in-service. I can't imagine the SW99's (or 990L's) would remain in-service as agency weapons for too many more years, not only because the model line was discontinued, but because S&W was apparently no longer going to be ordering repair parts from Germany, and had reportedly (what I was told) sold off most of their existing parts to the new Walther importer when they closed down their Walther America business.

EDITED to add: Don't mistake my above comment about being surprised any were still in-service as being in any way an inference that the quality of the S&W licensed version of the Walther P99 series is inferior or substandard. Quite the contrary. I've long believed the 99 series, and especially the SW99's, were excellent, robust and reliable duty/defensive-type pistols. I own a pair of them, carried an issued one for a few years (and used it for training/drills & quals, firing several thousand rounds), and have fired many more rounds through other examples of them. I like them, with the minor exception of the early backstrap inserts being less-than-optimally ergonomic. To be fair, though, Walther did pretty much invent the idea, and has revised them over time.

I ordered enough spare/repair 99 parts, as an armorer, to enable me to my own SW99's up and running for probably the rest of my life (and those of a couple of friends).

I imagine at some point I'll have to start ordering replacement RSA's and mag springs from the new Walther importer, though.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

One thing no one mentions is their inherent accuracy. Yes, the trigger does aggravate this somewhat, but it's clear they are accurate. APEX has stated, when asked why no replacement barrels for the SD, that they did not require one. They said the only real problem w/ the SD's was the trigger. BTW, the "plastic" feel to the trigger is because they're made of plastic. Glock has the same "issue". Some on this forum have had great results with the APEX kit (springs, trigger,etc.), some with just the trigger by itself and some have returned to the factory trigger. If one can work through the different feel of the stock trigger, they will have an inexpensive, reliable, ACCURATE pistol. The price point is certainly a BIG plus. They have their place and I sure do like mine, over 6K rounds and some minor issues later. I'll be keeping mine !!

I don't know what the advantage of a pistol that size would be if you're only allowed 10 round magazines.

Because it gives Gaston heart burn...

The SD line totally makes sense to me. That way, S&W - a legendary gun maker who produces fine and high end guns - can also make handguns that are price competitive with less expensive imported lines like Taurus, Bersa and Sar Arms, as well as more crudely made US gun lines like Kel Tec.

Remember when Honda first brought their products to the US in the 60's and 70's? What kind of vehicles did they sell? Cheap cars and motorcycles.

And what do they sell TODAY? Exactly.
NOT selling the SD line would be the nonsensical thing to do.

It's a solid, safe, no-frills working gun at a nearly unbeatable price point, sort of the like the original "M&P" concept. That pretty much guarantees it's going to be out there for a long time. I'm not knocking the new M&P; it's just that the Sigma/SD is a whole bunch more affordable and will make the same size holes in things. I was thinking "Glock" when I decided to hold my nose and buy a plastic gun, but I talked to a LEO/gunsmith/armorer friend and asked about the Sigma. His response: "I've had both of them. They both work. One costs a lot more than the other. I've had one recall on the Glock, none on the Sigma." The original M&P was intended as an affordable military and police weapon, long on durability and reliability and short on spiffy finish, at least compared to the civilian models Smith was turning out in the day. The SD fills the same niche today. The modern M&P reminds me a bit of Subaru. We bought one of those in 1984, when the company slogan was "Inexpensive and built to stay that way," which is exactly what they were, a 4x4 wagon with a 5x2 transaxle, seating for 5 plus luggage space, all for under $9,500 out the door. Priced a new Legacy Outback lately? Hint: they dropped that slogan about twenty years ago.
Regarding the reliability, I had been messing with a new striker spring on my Sigma 40F and took it to the range to test for issues, using some of the black & orange box reload stuff that was new at the time. I had a couple of FTFs and mentioned it to one of the range officers on the way out, wondering if it was my gun or the ammo. He offered to run some through his Glock 22 to see if it had the same issues. He fired half a dozen rounds, and the next to the last sounded unusually loud. He then handed it over to me to try. I fired four or five more and had a case head separate. We cleared everything, not, in hindsight, checkng as carefully as we should have, and I tried another two or three. The Glock appeared to be working normally to me, but he stopped me, saying it wasn't ejecting right. We checked and discovered the extractor had been blown clean out of the slide. By a miracle, we managed to find all the pieces, even that tiny spring, and cram it all back in the gun without tools. Kudos to the Glock for that, but consider that the Sigma had digested the same ammo without a hiccup.

I think you are absolutely correct. A "vehicle" gun must be trustworthy and easy to use. And I think you've nailed the target market

I bought my SD9VE because it is 1) reliable, 2) had good accuracy, 3) inexpensive, 4) easy to use, and 5) doesn't have a lot of sharp edges that can catch on clothing etc like the XD series.

While I take good care of my guns, the SD may get a few scuffs and scratches as it gets carried or rides in a vehicle so as to be readily available.

I wouldn't keep a gun that is unreliable or I didn't trust would perform when needed.

I am not a big fan of the Tacticool thing. Really I think the SD is a better looking pistol also.

I still liked it best in all-black. I wish they would bring back a black slide model that I could buy here in moonbat MA.

Why? becuase it is cheap (inexpensive) and they have to sell lots of them to pay of the lawsuit from Glock

Plus it helps Apex sells tons of trigger upgrades and you end up spending what a MP would have cost,

Why not buy a Glock it has better resale (no I am not a Glock fan) and it also has a crummy trigger.

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Still Running Against the Wind

True, the SDVE series will make APEX BOOKOO $$$$. But, the trigger and spring kit are what, $75? Add that to the low selling price of the SDVE (About $269) and you are over $100+ BELOW the cost of an M&P (About $475).

Rather than swapping out the triggers and barrels and gripping about the sloppy the action. Learn to shoot what you have. How many of you military or LEO got to change out the trigger cause you didn't like the feels when quals came along. I don't think so. SD9VE right out of the box is one accurate semiautomatic pistol right out of the box.

This...it took me a few hundred rounds to learn to shoot mine accurately; but, now I am very happy with it.

Thing is....I am not in the military any longer and I am not a LEO , so rather than "learn to shoot what I have", I can fine tune my firearm to what I want it to be. Of the 7 I own I have done one mod to one firearm....an Apex trigger in the SD9VE. The CZ P07 may get a few things more from kits I get from CGW.....maybe!

Are you suggesting that one should stick with a gun that they can't shoot well? Doesn't sound like good advice to me. I really tried to shoot this pistol well and after about 5000 rounds I decided to try something else and what a difference that made.

Unfortunately I chose to buy a SD40 as my first handgun so I never realized how bad they really were because I had nothing to compare it to. When I traded (upgraded) to a 4006 I went from a 4ft grouping to a 5in at 7 yards! I honestly almost gave up on handguns because I thought I was just a terrible shot but now I actually enjoy going to the range. If someone doesn't feel comfortable or enjoy a particular gun I would suggest to try something else. I now have 20-25 handguns and I have never had the accuracy problem that I had with my SD40. On a positive note, out of all the rounds I fired through the SD I never had a single jam or failure of any kind.

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Useless political propaganda

I have never shot a firearm that was well built, and could not shoot accurately. Most revolvers have a longer, heavier trigger pull than a SD. Our Colt Police Positive(1911) has a 17# trigger. Both the wife, and I can shoot 3 inch groups off hand at 10 yards with it double action.

I don't golf, but I have been told by many golfers that buying $10K clubs will not make you a better golfer.

Why does S&W still make the SD/ SV series?

Because people buy them and they have contracts with Middle eastern US allies.

I am a hack golfer and if you hand me a more expensive club my hit will be just as marginal as my discount specials.

I am just getting back into shooting as a hobby, you put a different pistol in my hands and there can be different results. I just posted how I shot a G19 much better than my SD9VE. I really like my S&W so it bummed me out a little.

I plan on working on my shot with the SD9VE, but I am frustrated by my results and I am considering going to Apex for triggering and spring upgrades. I need to shoot an M&P again, maybe the hinged trigger is what I am having difficulty with. I don't think it is the weight of the pull so much but maybe it is. When you think of it, it doesn't take much of a twitch to land your bullet inches off your target.


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I didn't read the whole thread sorry if anyone else mentioned this. I had one when they first came out (Sigma 9VE) It was my first firearm and was a nice gun for the price. I still feel they fit that type of buyer. Ended up selling it for my old MP40c which I also no longer have. I wish I kept it though (the Sigma). I had the side redone (rounded and coated) by Bowie Tactical curious before cerakoting was cool. It was a nice looking gun.

Secondly, didn't Glock win a lawsuit against SW for royalties on the Sigma's? Maybe that's still in effect as long as they're selling so Glock is still getting paid too?

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Semper Paratus

Just my opinion, but shooting a revolver will help your semi auto skills. I grew up on revolvers, shooting semi autos is a breeze, even the military triggers on the old soviet semi autos.

Just a suggestion, but forget the sights, forget the target, just work on grip, and trigger pull while keeping the firearm from jerking. To be honest a person can shoot millions of rounds, and still jerk when they shoot. Because of the recoil they never see/notice it, the only way to find out is dry fire. The person must be watching the gun during the dry fire, they will instantly be able to see their problem. Another solution is dummy rounds randomly in the magazine with live rounds. Don't forget the quarter drills also, don't work as well on a semi that has to be reset, but they do work. The quarter drill in the academy was the first drill when I went to the academy, after safety training.

Another problem is having a less than brisk trigger pull. Early Colt revolvers were designed for such a pull, that is why the heavier pull does not affect the accuracy with a skilled shooter. The Colt lock work is designed for a very positive pull.

All I can say is it is a good thing there is not an auto Pinocchio emoji in this forum when BS is posted.

Smith and Wesson also sells this pistol line to less developed countries Military and Police.