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  #51  
Old 12-16-2007, 03:58 AM
robertgreen robertgreen is offline
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Wonderful review i bought my sigma as my first smith and wesson weapon. I picked it up on clearence at local candy store for a mere 256.35 nib otd. I love it! I have since then bought a M&P IN 9mm i carry for work but somtimes i reach for the sigma instead it is just a reliable well shooting weapon. It has in fact sold me on S&W products now if i could just stop sending so much money down range and save a bit more for one of therre 1911's...........
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  #52  
Old 12-16-2007, 06:33 AM
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Thank you for the kind words. I'm hoping that the weather permits me to take my Sigma back to the range next Saturday . . . when I return from Cancun!
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  #53  
Old 12-16-2007, 04:21 PM
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This is the best review I have read about any handgun. Its honest, and as a Sigma owner I agree with everything you said.
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  #54  
Old 12-22-2007, 01:09 PM
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Well, dang! Thanks, man!
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  #55  
Old 12-30-2007, 04:34 PM
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So, finally got back to the range today (37° F, 5950' above sea level, chrono at 20 feet from bench), and did some more chronographing.

Winchester's RA9TA 127-gr +P+ load
M 1400 fps/ES 90.50/SD 37.02 (the first round was way slow compared to the others, that were bunched up nicely)
Speer's Gold Dot 115-gr +P+ load
M 1430 fps/ES 73.68/SD 31.35
Speer's Lawman 115-gr FMJ practice load
M 1324/ES 48.24/SD 20.17

Just to ensure the chrono was working properly (these numbers seemed high), I re-chrono'd two loads that I did last month (and decided the chrono was fine):

Winchester's "personal defense" white box 147-gr JHP
M 1027/ES 34.23/SD 14.10 (last month 995.0/38.51/14.24)
Winchester's NATO 124-gr FMJ
M 1289/ES 20.00/SD 9.32 (last month 1251/36.63/16.64)


Just to show that a Sigma has decent accuracy, look at the target on the top left (5 rnds Lawman, 10 yards) - this target also demonstrates how my Sigma always throws the first round to the left (this is probably due to the difference in force and seating between a hand manipulated slide and the gun loading as it fires):



I think this gun is an unreasonable value, and I really like it a lot.
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  #56  
Old 12-30-2007, 07:17 PM
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In your opinion, is the M&P worth the extra $250 or so over a Sigma? I am trying to decide right now between getting a Sigma now while the rebate is still available or waiting a few months until I can afford the M&P.

Does anyone know if there is a good laser made that fits the Sigma's rail? CTC doesn't make lasergrips for it like they do for 3rd gens and M&Ps.
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  #57  
Old 12-30-2007, 07:37 PM
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I would say no to the M&P and get the Sigma. I had a MP 9MM and sold it. It had some trigger creep that I just couldn't get use to.
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  #58  
Old 12-30-2007, 08:37 PM
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Matt, I can't say: the M&P is ergonomically wonderful and does have a better trigger than the Sigma. I started this thread only because I was psyched at what a great gun the not-well-regarded Sigma turned out to be!
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  #59  
Old 12-30-2007, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Erich:
Matt, I can't say: the M&P is ergonomically wonderful and does have a better trigger than the Sigma. I started this thread only because I was psyched at what a great gun the not-well-regarded Sigma turned out to be!
I was also impressed by the one I had the chance to shoot out at S&W the other day. I also like the fact that pre-ban magazines exist for it, which would allow me to have full capacity in Massachusetts, which is impossible with an M&P.
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  #60  
Old 12-30-2007, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bwh:
I have to wonder just how much time and effort it would take S&W to change the mold to create an industry standard accessory rail. Maybe a day or so...
Probably two. One day to mill out square the portion of the mold that make the rail and to machine an insert to mold MIL-STD-1913 rails and one day to fit them up.
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  #61  
Old 01-03-2008, 06:14 PM
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I'm new here but I feel compelled to reply to Erich's review. This is the best most comprehensive, honest review I have read...and I have been trying to read everything I can on the Sigma. As I said in the new members introduction I recently bought a Sigma 9 for my wife...ultimately it cost me $210 from Cabelas which was the main reason I bought it. However after examining it and shooting it...wow! I like my 1911 but from a pure practicality standpoint I'm not sure this pistol can be beat. Inexpensive, reliable, accurate, simple, easy to clean, light and easily concealable. Only wish I had enough for two of them...that 1911 gets heavy after a day. Maybe someday I'll get the M&P 9. If the Queen gets in maybe that day will be sooner than later!
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  #62  
Old 01-03-2008, 08:29 PM
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I have 6 Sigma's now with another on the way. With the rebate and mag deal you can't go wrong. I look for these to up in price not from S&W but demand and supply. 1911's are pretty but I have had nothing but trouble from every 1911 I've owned.
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  #63  
Old 01-03-2008, 08:33 PM
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Brian, thanks so much for the kind words. My head's swelling up.
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  #64  
Old 01-04-2008, 05:05 AM
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For the price, I'm almost tempted to go buy a
9mm version also... :/
I too kind of expect the prices to creep back
up on those, unless they discontinue them..
That may not happen too soon if they keep selling
a lot of them.
MK
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  #65  
Old 01-04-2008, 05:56 PM
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awesome review, keep up the good work
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  #66  
Old 01-04-2008, 06:05 PM
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Thanks! I think I'll go shoot the Sigma some more tomorrow.
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  #67  
Old 01-04-2008, 09:34 PM
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Erich - What a well-thought-out and informative review. In about 1996 a local sporting goods store brought in factory reps from nearly all of the big firearms companies and, for a modest fee, we got to shoot any / all of them. This was a really big deal for Central Oregon at the time. I remember that I hit the clay pigeons with the "brand new" Sigma better than anything else I shot and I shot at least 20 different handguns throughout the day. The Sigma just felt "right" and now I understand why. I never did buy one as a striker-fired gun just didn't/doesn't seem as safe to me as traditional sa/da. My 3913 is a better choice for me. Thanks again.
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  #68  
Old 01-06-2008, 02:52 PM
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I was at the range/shop yesterday and saw the sign advertising this deal. I took note of it, but thats about it - I'm a revolver guy at heart.

But upon reading this thread and doing some research into prices, I think I'm sold - I can throw one of these into my collection for a few hundred bucks and enjoy!

I have one question for those more enlightened/experienced than myself. Personally I'd rather go for a 40S&W model because it's a little higher up on the stopping-power scale over the 9mm. But how different are the ammo prices? This is going to be 99% a range gun, so if 9mm prices are notably less than 40S&W, I'll be sold on the metric variety.

And as a corollary to the above question - what's your favorite online source for current ammo prices? I haven't found one I've liked or that can give me a definite answer what relative prices between calibers are.
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  #69  
Old 01-06-2008, 03:52 PM
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Hummm. With the usual 9mm FMJ vs .40 S&W,
I'd say 2-3 bucks more per 50 rounds using
the .40 ammo.
Some variation with the hollowpoints, etc..
IE: 20 rounds of Gold dots for 9mm is $19
at one inline source.
The same for .40 is 3 bucks more at $22.
So a bit more, but not a huge increase.
I had a hard decision when I got mine.
I knew I could get ammo cheaper for a 9mm, and I
knew that you can get some pretty stout stuff
for 9mm.
But... Being I'm using mine for possible animal
problems, I decided I would be better off with
the bigger heavier slug, being it's moving at
a usually equal or faster rate than the equal
9mm version with it's lighter slug.
After all, I would really be better off with a
.357, .41, or .44 magnum to really get serious
with larger animals.
So I thought I better get the .40 s&w.
With just off the shelf FMJ's, the 180 gr from
the .40 is moving slightly faster than the
147 gr from the 9mm with most loads.
I can get hotter P+ loads for the .40 that
approach "standard" .357 magnum levels as far as
stopping power. IE: they register "11" on the
Taylor scale.. I know of no 9mm load that can
reach "11" on that scale. Maybe not even "10".
A standard 147 gr 9mm doing 950 fpm only rates
a "7" on that scale.
A standard 180 gr .40 doing 975 fpm rates a
"10". Of course , velocities will vary..
Anyway, if I had to ward off a mad hog/dog, with
a choice of the 9mm, or the .40, I'd want the
.40. The wider blunt slug is going to make a
bigger hole.
So that's the route I went.
For plinking, I actually like a 22LR, either
rifle or pistol.
Pretty accurate, and cheap to shoot.
BTW, I think I find cheaper ammo deals at the
local stores, than I do online.. As an example,
the box of 50/ win white box was about $12.99
where I bought the pistol at. I assume 9mm was
probably in the $9.99-10.99 range just
guessing..
Thats not too bad.. I also have Wal marts
close by.. But I think the sporting goods place
"Academy" was actually cheaper than wal-mart.
MK
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  #70  
Old 01-06-2008, 06:37 PM
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S&J;
Regarding ammo price difference between the 9 and the 40, yesterday at the local Academy I checked them out and the Remington 250 round box of 9mm is 10 bucks cheaper than the 40 S&W of the same ammo maker. Like the previous poster said, about 2 bucks per 50. To me, that is significant.
Ed
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  #71  
Old 02-05-2008, 08:26 PM
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I picked up a first gen sigma 9f with 3 17 round mags for next to nothing. I had seen the reviews and bad coments from many people online, but I also saw the same gun being offered for much more than I paid for it. I figured that if I did not like it, I would not be out a lot of money and might actually make a few bucks. I have never liked the glocks. They do not fit my hand. I mostly shoot my colt 1911A1. The 9F works wonderfully. It does not have a rail but I do not have a need for it anyway. The only thing is, I am having a hard time finding a holster currently available for it. Most available around here fit the VE and does not work with the 9F.
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  #72  
Old 02-05-2008, 09:03 PM
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Welcome to the hangout Jayaustin. You bought yourself a fine pistol with a Sigma. At one time I had seven of them. The one I keep in my vehicle has seen the most action but only maybe 500rds or so throught it. I have not had a single FTE, FTF. They are the most under rated pistols out there IMO.
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  #73  
Old 02-07-2008, 01:05 PM
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I have a 1994 vintage SW9F that's still ticking. It has been to S&W for upgrades and checkups 3 times. No problems with anything I feed it.
Also have an SW9VE that runs fine, although not as many rounds through it.

-BUD
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  #74  
Old 02-07-2008, 01:14 PM
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Don Hume still lists the 9F:
http://www.donhume.com/Products/ProductsList.cfm?action...yWeapon&WeaponID=214
Galco does, too.

-BUD

Quote:
Originally posted by jayaustin:
I am having a hard time finding a holster currently available for it. Most available around here fit the VE and does not work with the 9F.
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  #75  
Old 02-08-2008, 11:26 AM
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Erich,
Great review. I just acquired the 9SVE and was in need of some background. I was very impressed with both the history info and your range chrono reports.
The guy that I got this gun from I don't think knew that you are actually suppose to clean guns, argh! Kind of like asking a youngster how often they change the oil in their car and receive that blank look.
That being said, before I dig into this, any special cleaning and lubing suggestions? Also, any recommendations on tune-ups and/or problems to look for such an abused Sigma.
I'm considering this as a truck gun, any concerns with +P+?

Tim
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  #76  
Old 02-08-2008, 11:29 AM
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It's not approved by S&W, but that's what I carry in mine (Winchester's 127-gr +P+, which does 1400 fps from the Sigma).

Thanks for the kind words; I'm glad this was of use.
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  #77  
Old 02-08-2008, 08:28 PM
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I don't care what the 1st gen Sigmas were like. My 1st ever new pistol was an SW9VE . I got it just about a year ago. I've put about 1000 rounds through it and never...had...a...jam. I've never had a misfeed. I've never had a FTF. I shoot it, clean it and shoot it some more.

It's my bedside gun. It's my carrying in the woods gun. I can't imagine anything being more reliable than this weapon. The DAO trigger helps ensure that a rookie like me fully intends to pull that trigger.

I recommend them to anyone who will listen. You want to win a pistol match? Buy something else. You want to hear a pop when you pull the trigger? EVERYTIME you pull the trigger? Get a Sigma.
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  #78  
Old 02-10-2008, 12:18 PM
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Well it has been two months since I bought my wife her Sigma 9. Cabelas is running a sale on Sigmas again for 299.99 and S&W has extended their $50 mail in rebate plus two mags so I bought another one. As I said in an earlier post my 1911 gets heavy after a day. I think I just bought my primary carry gun. For those of you looking for a good deal... I don't think the Cabelas sale can be beat. If you start a Cabelas credit card they will give you an additional 25-40 bucks off as well. That puts the price of the Sigma to low to pass up. I know I already did it once, and no I am not in any way affiliated with Cabelas just want to pass along info on a good deal!
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Old 02-10-2008, 02:56 PM
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I'm going to go check one of these out... sounds like a good gun at a great price. Let's see....$250 (after rebate) w/4 high-cap mags. I know it's not a Glock, but sounds very worthwhile...particularly at half the price.
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:54 AM
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Erich, I'd like your opinion on another point. I've read a few reviews online...and one of them contends the trigger has a "flimsy" feeling. This is not regarding the trigger pull, but the actual trigger component, as if it's prone to being easily broken. I'm heading over to check one out, but will probably be late in the week.
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:12 PM
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Thanks Erich,

So much for your validation that I made the right choice in a first gun. This is my home defense gun and to my pleasant surprise, my wife even likes it. (at 7 yards, 1st time she ever picked up a gun- all center mass within 5 inches- which is good enough for me for home defense scenario) Now Im gonna get her smaller caliber (9mm Sigma VE) I just cant go wrong. Again much thanks Erich and I hope I can come to ya for some advice in the future.
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Old 02-11-2008, 03:20 PM
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I've never noticed the trigger being flimsy
on mine. Being plastic, it *looks* like it should
be flimsy, but it actually has no flex that I can
see or feel. BTW, it's a two part trigger.
Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it.
I've heard lots complain about the pull, but
I haven't seen a single claim of a broke trigger
yet. And even if it did, S&W will fix it.
BTW, I just whipped out my .40 and dry fired it
just to test... Nope.. The trigger does not flex. At all..
It's pretty hard and wide..
Myself, I wouldn't worry about it.
MK
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  #83  
Old 02-11-2008, 03:31 PM
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Thanks, ricdoc66 - nice of you to say so. Please feel free to email anytime you want to talk. I'm usually either here or over at the ProGuns Forums.

22lover, I have to admit I'm somewhat perplexed by that comment (I saw it, too). I suppose it was just a subjective impression that someone had, because - like MK - I've never heard of anyone breaking a plastic trigger (on a Sigma, Glock, XD or anything else).
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Old 02-11-2008, 04:44 PM
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That was one of the things I read too was about the trigger and how it was split. The gun shop told me that it was somewhat of a safety feature. (equal pressure had to be placed on the trigger in order for it to fire) Ive tried dry firing with my finger on the very lower portion and it fired. So im perplexed to it. To be honest, from a guy who is a rookiew when it comes to guns (sad to say, but I still dont know the real difference between DA and SA- but im sure I will learn) I guess what it comes down to, no matter what safety mechanism, SW- split trigger or Glock trigger within the trigger, when you put your finger on that trigger, you better be ready to pull it! Every is great on this website! Im so glad its here. Im gonna learn lots! BTW- on my way after work to get the 9mm Sigma for the wife. Wish they had it in .380 but oh well, she will most likely be able to handle the 9mm lugar.
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ricdoc66:
That was one of the things I read too was about the trigger and how it was split. The gun shop told me that it was somewhat of a safety feature. (equal pressure had to be placed on the trigger in order for it to fire) Ive tried dry firing with my finger on the very lower portion and it fired. So im perplexed to it. To be honest, from a guy who is a rookiew when it comes to guns (sad to say, but I still dont know the real difference between DA and SA- but im sure I will learn) I guess what it comes down to, no matter what safety mechanism, SW- split trigger or Glock trigger within the trigger, when you put your finger on that trigger, you better be ready to pull it! Every is great on this website! Im so glad its here. Im gonna learn lots! BTW- on my way after work to get the 9mm Sigma for the wife. Wish they had it in .380 but oh well, she will most likely be able to handle the 9mm lugar.
I have also heard that the trigger config is some type of safety measeure. It will fire by either pulling on the lower arm of the trigger or evenly in the middle. It will not fire though if you pull on the top half of the trigger. There is a arm that you can see if you look behind the trigger that prevents it from firing when pulling on the top half.
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Old 02-12-2008, 02:45 AM
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Yep, the lower part has to be pulled in before
the upper can travel very far. If you look behind the upper trigger you will see a little
tab that sticks out.
That tab is part of the lower trigger.
If you try to pull only the upper, the little
tab hits the frame of the pistol, and it can't
travel far enough to fire.
When the lower is pulled in, that little tab
ducks in up inside the upper trigger, and the
whole thing can do the full travel.
Myself, I'm not sure if I really see the point,
but that's how they do it. The reason I wonder
is if the trigger is pulled by some accidental
reason, it seems to me, the chances of the snag
being on the lower part are just as high as the
upper.. :/
So anyway, yep it will fire just pulling the
lower part, and the split between the upper and
lower do not matter. If the lower is pulled,
and enough strength is used to pull it all the
way, it will fire. There can be 0 strength on
the upper, 1/4 , or 1/2 , doesn't matter...
If the lower is pulled far enough, kabang..
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  #87  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:37 PM
bigal_2482 bigal_2482 is offline
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I have the 40ve with the m4 attached. Now if I could just find a holster for it. Any suggestions would be helpfull.

Allan
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  #88  
Old 02-13-2008, 09:55 AM
99Mustang 99Mustang is offline
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My understanding of split trigger (trigger safety) is that it minimizes accidental firing if the gun is dropped when cocked. The idea is that in order to release the firing pin, the sear has to be rotated sufficiently, the trigger safety prevents sufficient rotation unless the trigger is pulled back and therefore less likely to fire if dropped/shocked.

Ricdoc's comment about SA/DA, the Sigma is often described as a DA or DAO (DAO in 2006 S&W brochure), but I would describe it more like SA (you have to manually cock it after a dry fire) except the trigger pull is more like a DA. How would others describe the action?
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  #89  
Old 02-13-2008, 11:27 AM
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It's a one-and-a-half action.

On an ordinary double-action, the trigger (1) lifts and then (2) drops the hammer/striker. On a single-action, the trigger merely (1) drops it.

A Glock-type "Safe Action" (of which the Sigma and Kahrs are other examples), partially lifts and drops a partially pre-cocked striker.
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  #90  
Old 02-15-2008, 09:02 PM
bullitt1668 bullitt1668 is offline
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I don't know if this question has been answered but, how can I tell if I have a 1st gen or a 2nd gen sigma?
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Old 02-15-2008, 11:17 PM
MattB MattB is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by bullitt1668:
I don't know if this question has been answered but, how can I tell if I have a 1st gen or a 2nd gen sigma?
The 1st generation is the SW9F/SW40F. 4.5 inch barrel, no accessory rail. The 2nd generation is the SW40C/SW40V/SW9C/SW40C/SW357V. 4 inch barrel, no accessory rail. Some SW40Vs and SW9Vs have a grey polymer frame. The third and current generation is the SW9E/SW40E/SW9VE/SW40VE/SW9P/SW40P/SW9G/SW40G/SW9GVE/SW40GVE. They have 4 inch barrels and accessory rails.
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  #92  
Old 02-16-2008, 07:54 PM
roccoracer roccoracer is offline
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I picked up a 40ve about a month ago and have put about 200 rounds thru it already. I love this pistol, It feels better then my Gov issued Berretta did. I got mine for $280 with the four mags. I purchased the allied forces model (all black).

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  #93  
Old 02-16-2008, 11:14 PM
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VonFatman VonFatman is offline
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Mr. roccoracer,
First of all WELCOME to the Forum!! Stick around. Lots of smart folks here...I learn something every day.

VERY nice gun...I like the looks of your gun. I can see why you bought it.

Enjoy.

Bob
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  #94  
Old 02-17-2008, 06:10 AM
jeepguy jeepguy is offline
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How rare are the grey framed sigmas? One of my "students" has one. He didn't realize that there was anything different about it.
Just picked up my 40ve yesterday. It still seems like a magic trick to get 15 round mags in a grip that feels as thin as the one my 8 round single stack 4053 with hogue rubber grips had.
All it needs is the trigger from my XD9.
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:19 AM
MattB MattB is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeepguy:
How rare are the grey framed sigmas? One of my "students" has one. He didn't realize that there was anything different about it.
Just picked up my 40ve yesterday. It still seems like a magic trick to get 15 round mags in a grip that feels as thin as the one my 8 round single stack 4053 with hogue rubber grips had.
All it needs is the trigger from my XD9.
I've only ever seen a few SW9Vs and SW40Vs with the grey frame. I don't know if the SW357V was available in grey.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MattB:
Quote:
Originally posted by bullitt1668:
I don't know if this question has been answered but, how can I tell if I have a 1st gen or a 2nd gen sigma?
The 1st generation is the SW9F/SW40F. 4.5 inch barrel, no accessory rail. The 2nd generation is the SW40C/SW40V/SW9C/SW40C/SW357V. 4 inch barrel, no accessory rail. Some SW40Vs and SW9Vs have a grey polymer frame. The third and current generation is the SW9E/SW40E/SW9VE/SW40VE/SW9P/SW40P/SW9G/SW40G/SW9GVE/SW40GVE. They have 4 inch barrels and accessory rails.
Thanks for the info! Here is pic of mine with a hogue grip!

[IMG][/IMG]
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  #97  
Old 05-13-2008, 01:34 PM
enrique enrique is offline
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I need the striker for Sigma SW40V the striker is broken, Where I can buy this parts???
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  #98  
Old 05-13-2008, 03:46 PM
Double-O-Dave Double-O-Dave is offline
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RE: Sigma reliability - I just completed my CHL class over the weekend and the instructor's wife had a Sigma 9mm as one of her personal weapons, and she also used it as a loaner gun. The instructor said that he deliberately failed to clean and oil the weapon just to see what would happen. After more than 3000 rounds with multiple students, he indicated that there were no FTFs or FTEs. In fact, several students tried to buy the piece from him. No sale - wonder why?

Regards,

Dave
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Old 05-13-2008, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by enrique:
I need the striker for Sigma SW40V the striker is broken, Where I can buy this parts???
Seems like you can't get that part judging
from other posts.
You'll probably want to send it into S&W.
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  #100  
Old 10-07-2008, 07:27 PM
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I was fortunate enough to purchase a complete set of SW9VE parts (but for the frame) from a chopped police-seized gun for under $55 - now I've got all sorts of back-up parts should I need them.

PLW45 was kind enough to remind me of this thread, so I just wanted to update it with some new pix. I recently put a xenon-bulbed cheapie on my Swock (an expensive Surefire would have embarrassed the gun), and I find it to work quite well.









Obviously, we're not talking about a holster gun here, but this thing is great for around the house. I was talking to a cop friend last night about these tactical lights: he's usually pretty darned traditional, but he told me how helpful he's found these to be in house-clearing exercises - said there are tons of uses for a free hand in such events. Now he has rails on every duty gun he carries, and he uses them.
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