Pictures Of Sigma Internals?

[Kawabuggy]

I took my Sigma apart yesterday to clean it. I got carried away and decided to implement some trigger updates. I did some light polishing, swapped one of the sear springs and put it back together. Noticeable difference as the trigger is much lighter than before-BUT-I have a problem wherein the the top sear pin (the one the trigger rod pushes on) keeps falling out after repeated dry-firing of the gun. I can pull it back down and see that the top pin is physically coming out of the holes in the sear bracket. I swapped back to the factory dual spring set up, and yet the problem continues. Anybody have any ideas as to why this might be happening? There is nothing to physically hold that pin in place. Perhaps when I opened it up, there was something there and it fell out and I did not see it fall?

Otherwise, I have studied it very carefully, and cannot see what would hold it in place. I could modify the trigger rod to include a tab (tig weld) but maybe there is something obvious I am missing. If someone has a picture of their gun with the slide removed, I would very much appreciate seeing it.

Also, I see that a lot of posts state that there has not been much success at modifying the triggers in the Sigmas and yet Midway sells different springs just for this purpose???? Should I just leave it as the factory intended-or is it really possible to modify the pull? If it matters-I have successfully modified the trigger in several other guns I own. Some with more success (lighter pull, less creep) than others, but still I have achieved a level of success with each & every one. Why not the Sigma?

[Kawabuggy]

I took my Sigma apart yesterday to clean it. I got carried away and decided to implement some trigger updates. I did some light polishing, swapped one of the sear springs and put it back together. Noticeable difference as the trigger is much lighter than before-BUT-I have a problem wherein the the top sear pin (the one the trigger rod pushes on) keeps falling out after repeated dry-firing of the gun. I can pull it back down and see that the top pin is physically coming out of the holes in the sear bracket. I swapped back to the factory dual spring set up, and yet the problem continues. Anybody have any ideas as to why this might be happening? There is nothing to physically hold that pin in place. Perhaps when I opened it up, there was something there and it fell out and I did not see it fall?

Otherwise, I have studied it very carefully, and cannot see what would hold it in place. I could modify the trigger rod to include a tab (tig weld) but maybe there is something obvious I am missing. If someone has a picture of their gun with the slide removed, I would very much appreciate seeing it.

Also, I see that a lot of posts state that there has not been much success at modifying the triggers in the Sigmas and yet Midway sells different springs just for this purpose???? Should I just leave it as the factory intended-or is it really possible to modify the pull? If it matters-I have successfully modified the trigger in several other guns I own. Some with more success (lighter pull, less creep) than others, but still I have achieved a level of success with each & every one. Why not the Sigma?

[chicky77]

i believe the upper sear pin can only go in/out one way. if it were to fall out it would fall toward the inside of the frame.it should be held from falling out by the sear ramp assembly. I'd check to make sure you did'nt mix up the upper/lower pin.

[bigal_2482]

hope this helps

[Kawabuggy]

You are correct that the pin only goes in one way. It is a "stepped" pin meaning one end is smaller in diameter than the other end. Therefore, it only goes in one way-you cannot put it in backwards-you were right about that. It is in the right hole as well because if you put it in the bottom hole-the trigger rod can't be connected.

You indicate that the "sear ramp" may hold it in-what exactly is the sear ramp?????

If it matters, I can duplicate the problem with the slide removed. There is pressure on the sear when the gun is cocked (usually hammer pushes the sear towards the barrel of the gun) this releases the pressure on the top pin, and allows it to fall out. When not in the cocked position there is tension on the top pin and it can't come out. I can't see any type of retention system for this pin-and am wondering if something fell out when I was taking it apart. If anyone has a picture-please post it up! Otherwise, I will tig weld a small tab to prevent the pin from backing out-but still allow removal when/if necessary in the future.

I don't understand why S&W attempted (they missed the mark) to make it as complicated as it is. I could achieve BETTER results, with half the moving parts that they have used, and it would be of higher quality and have greater durability. The cam design of the sear riding on plastic is NOT designed for long term usage. Further, the fact that the cam portion of the sear is not finished well and is very rough will guarantee that the plastic wears over time. I have only put 150 rounds through mine and already there are witness marks & scratches on the plastic where the sear rides.

[Kawabuggy]

Thanks for the illustration. I found that last night as well. Item 12 is what I am working on but you CAN'T SEE ANYTHING IMPORTANT in that illustration. It does not show the pin in question, nor does it show any type of retention for that pin. The illustration does not go into the sear assembly-which is what I really need.

[Kawabuggy]

Solved it. Chicky77 was right about the pin being in backwards.. Well actually, I had the entire sear bracket in backwards which allowed the pin to walk out. Once I flipped everything over-the pin is now trapped against the sear ramp! Thanks for the very fast responses!

Since I got the pin figured out, I went ahead and removed the outter sear spring. Did not seem to make much difference. Seems like it is still pretty stiff. Can anyone else offer any additional suggestions on how to make the trigger softer? What about changing the trigger return spring? I would have to guess that it is adding at least 3 lbs. if not more to the pull.

[LuddhaBuddha]

Did you remove the pigtail spring, I took it off and that helped a little. I also took out the outter coil spring you mentioned but it caused the gun to fail to cock about 20% of the time while firing so I put it back.

[Kawabuggy]

This is what I can tell you that I have done that has worked very well to reduce trigger pull-I ACCIDENTALLY put the sear bracket into the plastic sear ramp BACKWARDS. Believe it or not, just doing this one simple thing made the trigger much easier to pull! Even with the pig-tail spring in place, and both springs on the sear-it was a lot easier to pull the trigger! Geometry change? Regardless, with the sear bracket in backwards-the top pin, the one the trigger rod pushes on-can walk out of the sear bracket and render the fire-arm unable to fire. Can't have that.

I pulled it back apart and put the sear bracket in the correct way, left out the pig-tail spring, and the outter sear spring-and the trigger is exactly like it was from the factory-no difference. Too hard.

If I can come up with a way to retain the top pin, with the sear bracket in backwards-even with all of the factory springs-it is MUCH easier to pull, and this would be ideal.

Instead of going through all of that trouble, I am going to first buy a softer trigger return spring from Mid-Way to see how much that helps. If it does not make a considerable difference-I will then come up with a way to retain the pin with the sear bracket in backwards as this really made a significant difference.

[gmchenry]

There are ways to make the trigger pull lighter, but I've yet to see any of those modifications that didn't come at the expense of reliability.

Smoothing some of the machine marks from parts with 1500 grit will help make the trigger pull smoother. The heaviness doesn't bother me, but the trigger pull has to be smooth.

[Kawabuggy]

I am looking for more than just a smoother trigger pull. To satisfy me it will have to be MUCH lighter, have reduced travel, and ZERO creep.

To reduce travel, I am going to weld up the slot in the trigger rod that pushes the sear pin. Then I am going to create a new slot that is very close in diameter to the pin-instead of having a HUGE slot that pushes on a tiny pin as it is from the factory! That should take out the free travel.

Next, I am going to modify the sear ramp so that it can sit lower in the housing. This will reduce creep. I will have to go a little at a time until I reach the magic spot.

I have already polished my sear where it contacts the ramp, and where it contacts the hammer. I also polished the hammer and edges where the sear & hammer meet to allow a smoother release.

I am still working on lightening the pull though. I have a trigger return spring kit coming from Mid-Way. Once that gets here, I will see how different the lighter springs will make it. If that does not do the trick, I will flip the sear bracket back over-and weld a tab to hold the top sear pin in place as I KNOW this significantly lightens the trigger pull.

[gmchenry]

Originally posted by Kawabuggy:
I am looking for more than just a smoother trigger pull. To satisfy me it will have to be MUCH lighter, have reduced travel, and ZERO creep.

Then get a different pistol.

[Kawabuggy]

Gm, while I appreciate the advise, I must tell you that I am the type of person who actually enjoys tinkering with things. I'm sure that I will be able to find my "shang-ri-lai" after a bit of searching.

Perhaps once I have proven that this can be done, others will follow. Or, I might finally give up and throw my hands in the air and say "you got me". Either way, it will be documented here for others and they won't have to walk in my shoes to know what I know.

Either way, this journey is like life in that it is all about the "trip" and not so much about the destination. Would be nice to have it my way, but if that does not happen I'll still be content in knowing I gave it my all!

[ArgMauser]

More power to you, Kawabuggy. Should be an interesting journey. Best wishes.

[99Mustang]

Kawa,

I also performed my own trigger work after having recently bought a 9VE. I used many of the suggestions on this site and others (trimmed springs, polished sliding sufaces). The pull is now much lighter than stock (about 5 to 6#). The biggest improvement is how smooth the pull is compared to stock (stock was AWFUL). I found that polishing the inside of the slot in the sear block made the most difference in smoothness.

I don't currently have a tool that can fit well in the slot so I'm not done. FYI, I used a hex key in the slot and tried to smooth down the slot. I was able to smooth out the high spots, but think I can do better.

As for Sigmas, for the price, it makes a good defense gun with a large capacity mag to boot. I don't think the design lends itself to ever becoming a target/competition gun, but with a little bit of elbow grease and time, you can definitely improve the trigger. Good luck on your "trip".

[Kawabuggy]

Mustang, I thought about polishing the inside of the sear like you did but then realized that doing so will actually add more slop to the pull. I think if given the choice, I would polish the inside uniformly from one end to the other, and then drill the sear bracket for a bigger pin to take up the extra clearance.

I just got the spring kit in from Midway and they are NOT THE RIGHT SPRINGS! For anyone else that reads this-Midway does not have the right springs for this gun! They say they used to carry the spring kit-but that it has been discontinued and they do not have a replacement kit at this time. Unfortunately, I learned this the hard way after disassembling the slide/firing pin assembly only to learn that these springs WILL NEVER WORK. Midway says-sure you can mail them back. Thanks Midway! That is very kind of you!

On their web site it lists Wolff Trigger Return Spring Pack S&W Semi-Automatics> Product #487099

I am still waiting on the Wolff Striker Spring for Sigma Product #295637. Since the name of my gun actually appears in the description, I am hoping that it will work in this gun.

[Kawabuggy]

Okay, here is the update. The striker spring came in, and it has made a very big difference.
I installed the spring, did some more polishing to the inside of the sear where the trigger push pin moves the sear (as 99mustang) suggested, and that seems to have helped as well. The gun is a night & day difference now as compared to what it was like when new. I would highly recommend this as a standard update with these guns.

There are still some other things I would like to do to reduce the amount of free play, and that will come in time. Have to break out the TIG welder to get that done.

[99Mustang]

Kawa,

I didn't notice any more slop when I cleaned out the slot in the sear, but mine could have been tighter to begin with. When I did the polish work, I actually did the rest of the sear block but not the slot. I re-installed it and while there was a slight improvement, it was still very "sticky" and rough. Only after I tried to knock off the rough spots on the sear slot did I get a significant improvement, the trigger is much smoother.

I still plan to revisit the slot as I feel I could do a better job of polishing it, but have to figure out a tool to use that will fit the slot and not take too much metal off. For now the trigger is vastly improved from when I bought it.

FYI, it was because of the bad trigger that I found this forum, so that's one positive thing about my experience with the Sigma.

[Kawabuggy]

99 mustang-I agree with you that polishing the inside of the sear did not add significantly more slop, but there was too much slop there from the factory to begin with. I think later I will weld up the slot in the trigger push rod where the sear pin rides. By tightening up that slot, the sear will begin to move as soon as the trigger moves. That is the extra slop that I want to remove. If you look at the slot in the trigger push rod, you will note that the sear pin is about 1/3 the size of the slot. Should not be that way.

I would say that polishing the sear slot definitely made the pull smoother. Before it felt like the trigger would start to pull, then bind up, then move again. It was not a smooth steady pull before. Now with the sear slot polished it feels like it is a more steady pull with little binding.

The striker spring made the biggest difference in the tension required to pull the trigger.

In case anyone is wondering I had only 1 FTF last night out of 150 rounds. There was a small ding in the primer but the shell did not fire. I put it back in the clip, loaded it again, and it fired the 2nd time. The other 149 rds. when BANG on the first pull.

I let the guy that works the counter at the shooting range dry fire my pistol. He said he was very impressed with the work. I can't say enough about how much better this pistol is now with the changes.

I hope this has been of some benefit to anyone else considering doing this. It is well worth the time to sort the trigger out. You don't have to live with it the way that it is. I have minimal $ investment so far. I think I have spent $9.31 on the striker spring. And about 2 hours polishing everything, and figuring out how it all goes back together. Otherwise, about 1 hour to polish everything if you have a better memory than me.

[Sultan]

I went to the Wolff Gunsprings website and they don't show either one of those numbers now for the Sigma 40VE. Am I missing something here? I love the weapon and it is very accurate, but I'm going to have to come up with a solution for the spring pull weight for me to enjoy shooting it. I'm leaning very heavily towards Mustang's suggestions at this point.

Also, can someone tell me how to get the plastic retainer off the back of the slide without breaking it? I wanted to polish the items in there that have been mentioned.

[Kawabuggy]

Sultan,
There is NOTHING inside the slide that needs to be polished! The firing pin guide is inside there and is made of plastic. The only reason you want to remove that slide cover is to get to the striker spring----Midway part #295637 "Wolff Striker Spring S&W Sigma 3-1/2 lb. reduced power". THIS is what will reduce the trigger pull-NOT POLISHING.

The parts you want to polish are the sear contact points with striker, sear pin cavity, striker head, and sides of sear pin body where they ride in the sear bracket. All of these items are contained in the grip body.

When you are ready to replace the striker spring, you will have to remove the plastic slide cover. My honest recommendation would be to purchase a new slide cover from Midway at the time you purchase the striker spring. They are not that expensive-AND YOU WILL DAMAGE/MARR the original one getting it out. I did minimal damage to mine getting it out. Just understand that you will have to put a screw driver between the slide and the cap and then work it down slowly. Understand that there is a great amount of spring pressure on the cap and that you must be ready to catch the ejector spring & rod when the cap finally breaks loose. The ejector spring and rod will come out with great force and you can lose them if you are not prepared to catch them with something. I put a rag over the cap and only expose the gap that I need to get the screw driver into. What I did was wrap a towel around the slide, and then put it in a vise to hold the slide while I pried the cap down and out.

If you have any other questions, post away.

[Sultan]

I see where I got confused. You are using Midway part numbers and I'm looking on the Wolff site. So sorry for that, I have it straight now.

I read another post on another site where the fix applied was to very lightly sand the bottom of the housing block where is contacts the sear, then polish it as you have suggested. Your explainations are great, by the way.

Everyone else is pretty much suggesting to dry fire/range fire the heck out of it to get the trigger to loosen up. It seems that by changing the spring and polishing - possibly some light sanding, we are doing the same thing as firing the heck out of it would do. Personally, I want the weapon to be comfortable to shoot right off and I'm like you, Kawabuggy, I like tinkering and doing the work.

I did want to ask Mustang about taking the length off the pigtail spring. Could you explain that process in a bit more detail? Did you straighten out the clipped end when you were done?

Is there a chance of getting any picture of any of this? Thanks.

[Kawabuggy]

I removed my pig-tail spring entirely.

I also removed the outter sear spring.

I'm not sure I would sand any material off the sear ramp. The reason I would not touch that plastic ramp is that it would be too easy to get carried away and remove too much material. That could alter the timing of the hammer/striker release. Any sanding that you do to the ramp where the sear touches it, will result in a longer trigger pull before striker release If you just wanted to lightly touch it though I would use 1500 wet sand paper and just lightly go over it. That would certainly smooth out any minor surface imperfections. Caution is the key there.

I did not take any pictures while I was doing the work. Had it apart last night cleaning it, but did not think to take any pictures.

If you need help with anything specific, just post back here. I get an e-mail each time someone replies and I can check it.

[99Mustang]

Sultan,

Put a cutoff wheel on the dremel and spinning at it's lowest speed touch one end of the pigtail spring to the FLAT SIDE of the cutoff wheel. Do NOT use the edge of the wheel as it's too wide for the springs and you can't control it well. You're basically shaving off the spring material. Don't hold the spring on the wheel too long, tocuh it for a second or two at a time. You want to remove only a little material at a time. It takes 2 - 3 minutes to do it right. Keep the spring perpindicular to the wheel, so the end of the spring remains flat; if you do this you won't have to straigthen the spring at all when done. I held the spring with needle nose, keeping a very gentle grip on the spring (too much and you may bend the spring). Again, make sure you have eye protection as pieces of the spring will fly off.

I took about 1/8" off both the pigtail and the outer spring.

I'll see about taking pictures if people are interested.

Kawa,

I didn't touch any plastic pieces for the same reason you mentioned. All the surfaces on the plastic where smooth, so I saw no need to modify. Besides the trigger work, I also polished the metal contact surfaces on the slide and frame, just enough to remove the matte finish, this helped to smooth out the movement of the slide when racking the gun.

[plastikguy]

very interested in see pictures

[Sultan]

I'll take some pictures this weekend and post them. I'm going back into the sear section to polish some more.

Mustang, I'm sorry to be so dense, but I still don't understand if I'm actuall shaving a coil off the pigtail spring, talking some of the tail off or removing material off the length of the tail. I would appreciate one more clarification on that.

Does anyone know what this pigtail spring actually does in the weapon? I have mine out and everything works properly, but I'd still like to know it's purpose.

I'm pretty convinced that the outer sear spring is really just there to hold the inner spring in place. It may be that taking an eighth-inch off it would do the trick.

Kawabuggy, that's a good suggestion to get another slide cover before changing out the striker spring. I'm getting at least one - I think they are $5 or so.

I'll try to have those pictures posted on Monday.

[99Mustang]

Plasticguy & Sultan,

See my post in the S&W-Smithing section. I posted several pictures of the sear housing assembly and what I did to smooth and lighten the trigger. The work was done on a 9VE, but I suspect it's the same for the 40.
Sigma trigger work (pictures)

FYI, I've shot 700 rounds through it since the trigger job and not one FTF, FTE.

[Sultan]

99Mustang,

Yes, it is exactly the same for the 40VE. Great pictures, too. Thank you for sending us the link to that. It appears from the pictures that you didn't do anything to the coiled (pigtail) spring at the bottom of the sear assembly, that you only took material off the inner and outer sear springs. Is this right?

Thanks again.

[99Mustang]

Sultan,

I left the small lower spring alone, it does not contribute much to the trigger pull. It resets the trigger sear to it's rest position and I didn't want to make any changes there. I did not want to reduce reliability.

[Sultan]

Thanks for all the great information here, especially to 99Mustang and Kawabuggy. I think I'm ready to tackle my Sigma trigger job now armed with really good information (and excellent pictures).

I'm in the process of finding the Dremel polishing kit that has the long thin polishing attachments in it. By the way, there is an excellent metal polish called Metal-Glo that will put a mirror shine on any metal. It's made for show knife polishing, but I've found it works really well on the parts of the Sigma I want to polish and it doesn't remove material that I can tell. It sells for about $5 a tube.

[Kawabuggy]

I completely removed that small spring that is wrapped around the lower sear pin and have not experienced any ill effects..... Yet.

In regards to polishing, I started with 800 grit paper, wrapped around a flat piece of plastic so that I was certain I was not introducing divots from uneven sanding points. Very light polishing with 800, then quickly moved to 1000, then final polishing with 1500 wet sand. You can get all of the sand paper at most any local Pep Boys, O'Reilly, Auto-Zone, Kragens, or the like.

[Sultan]

I finished phase one of the Sigma trigger rework this weekend and it makes a huge difference in the smoothness and the toughness of the trigger pull.

I followed 99Mustang's route and shortened the outer and inner sear springs by 1/8 inch. I left the coil spring installed at this time at the bottom of the sear assembly. I also followed Kawabuggy's advice and polished the heck out of all the sear parts. I found the Dremel Polishing kit ($20) to be a huge help because it comes with red polishing compound and great polishing attachments. I hit all the parts with 800 grit sandpaper lightly and then turned the red coumpund loose on them. I finished up with the Metal-Glo polishing paste and now everything looks like mirror finished steel. I also polished the top of the trigger lever and the slot in the trigger lever where the sear mates to it.

Now the trigger action is about half as hard as it originally was and it is glass smooth all the way through. Also, there is no more loading at the end of the trigger pull when it was stock. I also took this opportunity to polish the cartridge ramps that are cast into the breech end of the barrel assembly. Mine were really rough and very unfinished. They look like mirrors now and are totally smooth.

I'm going to shoot it like this for a while before I decide whether to change out the striker spring or not.

[EPWrangler]

Instead of the 3.5 lb Sigma striker spring I used the 4lb glock. It fits fine and works very well. I also removed the outer sear spring and the little pigtail spring below. Everything works just fine.The polishing of the striker and sear engagemnet faces does help smooth out the pull.

[mr.72]

I just got a new 9VE and we have run about 300 or so rounds through it, with the only failures on feeding with low-pressure (cheap) ammo. Last night I took it apart and removed the "pigtail" spring and the outer sear spring and I was considering testing it this weekend. However after reading the various threads on this topic I have noticed this alarming trend of these mods causing the gun to have a FTF rate of about 1 in 150 or 200 rounds and this is totally unacceptable to me so I'll be reversing these mods and returning it to stock.

[Sultan]

I've studied the design of this assembly for quite a while now. I think the outer sear spring is actually there to hold the inner sear spring in place. If you ever take them out, you'll find that the inner spring has a lot of tension on it and it tends to bow without the outer spring around it as a guide. This is why I opted to use Mustang's method of shorting a small amount off the springs and it worked very well in reducing the amount of trigger pull effort. As for the pigtail spring, I know it makes the sear stand back in position, but why it has to be such a strong spring is beyond me, and I know springs pretty well.

I have to admit that I had mine out and then after reading the threads, put mine back in as well. I think the FTFs are mainly caused by using that 3.5 lb Striker Spring mod, but EPWrangler's find on the Glock spring has me hunting for one of that strength. I still may take the pigtail spring out and test the gun for a while before I write that one off.

I did want to pass on one bit of discovery about the Sigma that I learned the last outing at the range. I started the session out slowly squeezing the trigger and let me tell you, it was a pain even with my trigger/sear mod. I discovered quite by accident that if I squeezed the trigger very quickly (more of a controlled pull), the session became really fun and I was still hitting the target accurately. So with Mustang's trigger mod and experimenting with the WAY I squeeze the trigger, this gun is starting to get really fun to shoot.

[mr.72]

OK, Mr Sultan, let me see if I concur with your assessment.

The outer sear spring is actually a much higher-rate spring than the inner sear spring. The outer spring is not under as much preload as the inner spring. The preload of the inner spring causes it to require a certain amount of static force to begin compressing it (equivalent to the pre-load force), but then it is linear beyond that point (basic spring theory not regarding their use in a gun). So it appears that the use of two springs with different rates and different preload amounts is there to give more of a progressive rate, where you have to pull with x number of lb in order to move it at all, then beyond a certain amount it becomes linear with a curve at the beginning. However it seems certain that the outer spring is most of the spring rate, and the inner spring exists either to keep the outer spring centered, or to provide some pre-load initial force, or (likely) both.

The pigtail spring is very strong because it has very little deflection. It only moves a small amount. There is a lot of leverage on it.

If you cut down the sear springs then you remove the preload. The dynamic force required to move the trigger is the same, it's just the initial force required to get it moving that changes by changing the preload. I do think that is a valid concern. However I bet part of the reason there is so much preload on the inner spring is so that it does not come off even under harsh impact. I don't know where those springs could go if they were to try to slip out of the seat but it couldn't be good for them to get crunched in the sear assy.

Regarding squeezing quickly, I noticed that if I just went "bam-bam-bam" and fired quickly that my accuracy was very good. Maybe a 2" group at 7 yards (way better than my accuracy when firing a single shot and waiting). So you may be onto something. Pull all the way when you are ready to fire. No progressive pull. My wife discovered the same thing. Pull hard and fast, you shoot this gun better. I think that's an accurate simulation of defensive firing anyway, so it makes sense.

I had a suspicion that the trigger tension was affecting my accuracy but now I do not think it is. I can dry fire it and keep the sight right on the target with no movement. I don't think it's the trigger that's pulling my groups down and to the right. I might just need to adjust the sights.

[mr.72]

by the way, cutting those springs, if you cut off any more than the "dead" coil, will not only reduce preload but it will increase the spring rate (thus increasing the dynamic trigger tension).

[Sultan]

The way the inner spring is made, if you don't take off more than 1/8 of an inch, it still seats properly in the sear parts and the outer spring still rests properly, too. My springs have been ground down, not cut. Cutting will damage the springs - grind with care so as not to heat the springs. It's up to you if you want to try any of this. Apparently, you are not happy with my explaination of the springs. Make your own decisions, I'm just reporting what I've found out from use. The trigger pull all the way through from rest to firing is much lighter, not just the preload.

I had an instructor at the range tell me that holding my head more erect during firing would change the way my round hit the target. I've always been a rifle shooter, so I'm used to holding my head snuggled down into the stock. I tried what he said and my down and to the right became bullseye. Couple that with the swifter squeeze and I'm having fun with a gun I was about to get rid of.

[Kawabuggy]

I am still shooting away with my gun-with modifications-and have no problems to report. I felt comfortable enough with my gun to use it to certify for my CHL. Not a single FTF.

I have put another 300 rounds through it since I last posted. Initially when I first made the changes I did experience some FTF's (2 in about 150 rounds) but those have since ceased entirely.

I hope everyone enjoys their new gun as much as I am enjoying mine. I got my rebate back, but am still waiting on the 2 free magazines.

[mr.72]

No point in getting defensive about it. My comments on spring rate and preload are easily verifiable since they are simply recitation of normal physics and are not related to gun performance.

One thing I did notice is that these springs load the pins in the little channel in the sear, so that whatever friction exists in this channel is exacerbated by high spring tension. I suspect this affects the feel substantially.

Mostly, for me, it is not a worthwhile tradeoff. I get better trigger feel and maybe better accuracy by an inch or two at 7 yards, and in exchange I void the warranty and potentially may reduce the reliability of a gun that is intended to be used almost strictly for self defense. Just not worth the risk. I can hit the bulls eye with the stock trigger. I can learn to do that repeatedly.

[OKFC05]

For those that wonder what the outer sear spring is for, the following is from S&W.

The outer sear spring was added to insure the sear will reset when using hot defense loads. Cutting or removing these springs may cause the gun to fail to fire due to the sear not resetting when using hot defense loads. (The slide moves faster with hotter loads)

No amount of shooting with mild loads will determine whether the gun will function correctly with hot defense loads.

[mr.72]

Now, shouldn't you shoot at least a few hundred rounds of your defense load through the gun to verify the reliability with that ammo before relying on it for defense?

Are most people really intending to use a hotter load for defense than they use for normal routine practice?

I am using Winchester 115gr white box FMJ for practice and Winchester 115gr white box JHP for defensive load, they should be the same pressure, no?

I noticed right off that the gun functions differently when shooting these WB Winchester rounds than it does with a less hot load like the Monarch from Academy. I don't want to risk a FTF under any circumstances.

[Sultan]

mr. 72, I'm merely stating what I know from my own experience. My Sigma was not under warranty, so I didn't have that to contend with. Your decision to do a spring job or not is always your decision. Our lives may depend on our decisions in a self-defense situation. I'm sure the Sigma will go bang as reliably as possible if it is left stock. I just don't like how hard it is to shoot and I can do something about it. The balance is to keep it reliable. I like to tinker and so I report what I find in hopes of helping anyone else who likes to tinker. I haven't made any physical readings on the stock sear or to the customized sear, but it feels better now and is still reliable for me.

Kawabuggy, do you still think the striker spring change made the biggest difference for your trigger pull?

Thanks

[DBell7827]

im fairly new to this site ive been shooting guns since i was 11- 12 yrs old i own a sw40ve and the stock trigger is extremly stiff at 12.5lbs i removed the inner spring from the sear block and it dropped from a 12.5lb to a steady and consistant 9.2lb draw it is very reliable ive fired over 300 full metal rounds 165 gr both reloaded and new rounds with only 1 gun jam probably due to lack of cleaning i also fired 50 ppr rounds thru it with no jams or ftf on average i put 100 to 150 rounds a week thru this firearm every wed. i go to a private range and shoot this gun it is very affordable and fun to shoot with a normal trigger pull this week after firing wed. i will do the biweekly cleaning of this gun and i will polish the sear block to try and smooth the trigger out and will repost in about 2 weeks im thinking of replacing both internal sear block springs with that of a doubled spring from 2 ball point pens ill let you know how it works in a few hundred rounds also no im not modding a firearm that is used as a carry weapon if the mods i make are good and no jams or fail to ftf's in say about 600 rds i will switch it to a carry weapon ill let you guys know

[Sultan]

I can only say the mods I've done to my 40VE have made me really like this gun - AND - it is reliable. I'm finding that how I lubricate this weapon is CRITICAL. Too much is not good - some of you probably know that. I'm looking for a good "dry slide" lubricant for it now. I know it's been debated, so I'll let you know what my search and trial reveals.

DBell, I'll be interested to hear how your experiment goes. The polishing will really smooth out the action. If you have a Dremel, I highly recommend the polishing kit they sell for it. It has everything you need to polish all the key parts. My sear has a mirror finish on it now and the action is consistant and smooth.

A buddy of mine who is a Glock gun smith took a look at my Sigma and he said that except for the sear assembly, it looked and acted just like a Glock. He said some of the parts even looked the same. We discussed why the trigger pull was so hard on it and he just laughed and said that he was sure it is because the Sigma is made in Ted Kennedy's state. Wow, did that open my eyes. I'm just throwing this out there, but it does explain a lot.

I still haven't found that Glock 4 pound striker spring that was mentioned in an earlier post. If anyone has a handle on part number, would you please post it here? Thanks and good shooting.

[Kawabuggy]

For sure-the BIGGEST change in trigger pull came from changing out the striker spring.

****I must caution however that you stand the greatest chance of experiencing an FTF when changing out the striker spring.****

Those few times I experienced an FTF it was due to a light firing pin strike on the primer. There was a witness mark on the primer, but it was not enough to activate the primer/powder in those instances. I have not experienced any FTF's since I started loading my own. The only FTF's I experienced before were using the cheap Monarch ammo. Maybe the primers are tougher in the Monarch ammo????

Since I started hand-loading I have complete confidence in my gun. I carry it every day concealed. I am currently using Hodgdon Longshot 10 grains, behind a 155 grain Speer Gold Dot bullet with a CCI primer. This is giving me over 1200 FPS. The gun has a lot of recoil with these & I think I am going to have to buy the stronger recoil spring to try and control hammering the slide back. I don't know what the hoopla is about in regards to resetting the seer, I can rapid fire through an entire clip with these hand-loads and do not experience any issues. My only complaint would be that I am not very accurate when rapid firing due to the excessive muzzle jump when firing.

[RedHouse]

Sultan...

Reduced power striker springs can be purchased here:
http://www.gunsprings.com/SemiAuto/S...NF.html#Sigma4

[Sultan]

That is for the Sigma reduced power Striker, and thank you. I was looking for the 4-pound Glock spring that worked. My thinking is if the stock spring is 4.75-pounds and the reduced Sigma spring is 3.5-pounds (and fails occasionally), if I can get a 4-pound spring, it will reduce the trigger pull and still be reliable. I just want to try that, anyway.

Thanks again for the quick response, but I'm looking for the Glock 4-pound spring.

[RedHouse]

How about these?
http://www.gunsprings.com/SemiAuto/G...ock%20Strikers

[Sultan]

Yes, that looks great. Thanks for finding that. I'll get some ordered, install them and try them out. I'll let you know if it makes a difference to the feel of the trigger, FTFs, etc.