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Old 09-12-2009, 12:25 PM
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Default S&W CS45 dimensions and specs

Hello all,

I'm trying to find out size and weight specifications on the Chief's special 45ACP model (CS45). S&W Website lists OAL at 6.5" and unloaded weight at 24oz but gives no thickness or height dimensions. I'd like to know the thickness with and without the decocker and with Big Dog's slimmer and shorter grips. I would intend to assemble a flat mag based gun with the slimmest grips and convert to DAO. I'm trying to replicate the AMT DAO 45 backup which I had to pass on as I just couldn't rely on it. I was also wondering what the DA/SA trigger pull weights were and what to expect of the pull weight after conversion to DAO.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 09-12-2009, 01:39 PM
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I believe it was about 1.25" on the slide and/or frame but not sure of the grip, it was a good fit for me but I have big hands. My G29 grip seems small in comparison. Wish I had never traded the gun off, biggest mistake in gun sales or trades with exception of the 1006 I sold. It was excellent CCW weapon and rivals my G29 in that area.
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:09 PM
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I had an AMT .45 Backup. The size and shape was the only thing it had going for it. No sights, brutal trigger sting and finicky with ammo.

When the CS45 came out, we tried to mimick the Backup. S&W converted it to a DAO and reduced the slide lock. I then had the slide rounded off like a 1911 and shortened a couple of magazines. A pic is below.

Totally reliable and easy to qualify with, but the size was still considerably larger than the BackUp. Weight was the same.



PS: The widest part of any Smith DA .45 is the safety. If you go DAO, the widest part is the factory grip, at just a hair over 1 inch. You can shave one or two steps off the slide lock as well.

Last edited by KurtC; 09-12-2009 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 09-12-2009, 07:27 PM
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KurtC / Old Navy,

Thanks for the replies, details, and the picture. I saw it come up a number of times during my browsing, seems to be one of the regularly admired guns!



The AMT was an inch thick, 6 3/4" long and 4 3/4" tall. It weighed 24oz unloaded. I spent a lot of time dehorning it (notice the absence of the step in the slide). I undercut the trigger guard so I could inch my grip up a little which helped a lot with the trigger actuation and subsequent frame slap on the finger. I also reset the grips with flat-head screws which helped a lot with the loosening of the grips under fire. There was an immense amount of time spent getting this gun running that I never recouped after it's sale. The gun came to me brand new, unfired, in the box with the firing pin retaining roll pin driven through the firing pin! When it left my care it would fire reliably, but I just didn't trust it. I had it digesting ball ammo without a hitch but didn't feel it was worth trying carry ammo on.

Would I be asking too much to get a top of sight to heel (with mag inserted) height measurement off your gun? I've got big pockets and can actually get my Kimber Ultra CDP II, normally carried IWB, in a pocket holster to fit. It's just far too clunky to draw. The AMT would hustle right out of my pocket almost as fast as my Colt Government .380, so I'm trying to get as close to that as possible in a 45ACP making my options fairly limited (especially since I've got a list my state DOJ expects me to pick from).

Last edited by inboost; 07-30-2011 at 11:27 AM. Reason: new webhost
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:04 PM
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I no longer have the gun, so I can't take a measurement. It carried well in an ankle holster, but was still too large for a pocket. I switched to a Beretta 8045D mini cougar. It can be dropped in a pocket in a hurry, but is a bit too wide and long for everyday pocket carry.
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inboost View Post

Would I be asking too much to get a top of sight to heel (with mag inserted) height measurement off your gun? I've got big pockets and can actually get my Kimber Ultra CDP II, normally carried IWB, in a pocket holster to fit. It's just far too clunky to draw. The AMT would hustle right out of my pocket almost as fast as my Colt Government .380, so I'm trying to get as close to that as possible in a 45ACP making my options fairly limited (especially since I've got a list my state DOJ expects me to pick from).
I didn't have problem with pocket carry or IWB CCW, I ended up replacing the CS45 later on with a G29 because I could not find another CS45 and the G29 being 10 mm is a better combat round around cars and heavy clothing with better range ability. But the big deal was I had several 10 mm S&W's and reload for them so the cost saving there was a big deal and the G29 was only $500 OTD, I had wanted a 3" 10 mm S&W revolver either 610 or Night Guard but the price was a killer at the $900 to $1400 price range.

I have thought about CCW with my 610 5" or 1086 because I love the way they shoot, but they are too rare to beat up carrying or having to turn over to the cops if one ever had to be used. So I end up with a Glock with a 4 lb trigger and no safety but the user.
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Old 09-13-2009, 12:21 AM
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KurtC / Old Navy,

Thanks for the additional info.

Anyone else who still has a CS45 in their inventory willing to give me an overall height with a mag inserted?
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Old 09-13-2009, 01:29 PM
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Well, a little more investigation turned up a Gun Tests article that has the specs I was after. They have a spec sheet available here for those who are interested. Interestingly it specs length at 0.2" more than what S&W gives.

Bottom line is they give 4.6" as a height (likely minus the mag) which is roughly the same as my amiably carried Colt Government .380. It's still a long way from the AMT as KurtC explained. Due in part to the DA/SA frame and the extra round in the mag. Still, height being the critical dimension to clear the pocket aperture I think it will carry well in my intended use.
  • AMT DAO Backup 45: L=5.75/H=4.13/W=1.0, 28.0 oz loaded 5+1
  • Colt Govy 380: L=6.13/H=4.54/W=1.09 at grip, 18.5oz loaded 7+1
  • S&W CS45: L=6.5(S&W spec)/H=4.6(GT spec)/W=1.1 at grip(KurtC spec), 31.0oz loaded 6+1

I sure would prefer 45ACP over 380ACP and I'm willing to give the chunkier package a try.

I want one!
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:36 PM
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Hello,
Its G from Big Dog Grips. I think you recently sent me an email however via a small glitch with changing our server I lost yours. I am glad you got your dimensions you needed and you will not be sorry that you got you one. Fine little cannons!
G
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:58 PM
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I got to put my hands on a CS45 today. Here's probably more than you ever wanted to know...

L = Length / H = Height / T = Thickness


Last edited by inboost; 07-30-2011 at 11:28 AM. Reason: new webhost
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
I got to put my hands on a CS45 today. Here's probably more than you ever wanted to know...
Nice job. Thanks for posting that.

Bill
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:52 PM
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Just searched CS45 stuff and found your post. Thanks for the pic - it's great!
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Old 12-18-2009, 08:52 PM
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Excellent picture! The GunTests links don't work unless you're a subscriber.
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Old 01-15-2012, 07:26 AM
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Very helpful picture!! Thanks for posting it!!
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:27 AM
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I have no problem in my mind anyhow packing ball ammo.
The short barreled guns don't push the projectile fast enough to make it expand enough.
The AMT Backup with ball is after all a back up. The 45 ACP ball has has more punch than many HP rounds of lesser caliber which are promoted or recommended by the "experts".
I believe one stop shots in .45 ACP are somewhere about 65%.
I know 357 and 9MM surpass this with some good carry ammo.
The S&W 45 CS looks nice.
Wish I had one.
Sorry I got off subject here. I was searching for a 45 Backup magazine when I found this post.
Then it was "Look a chicken." Dang chickens anyhow.

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Old 02-18-2014, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibewbull View Post
I have no problem in my mind anyhow packing ball ammo.
The short barreled guns don't push the projectile fast enough to make it expand enough. ...
I'd not necessarily write off the ability of the ammo companies to make hollowpoints that offer the potential for expansion at the lower velocities usually obtained in the shorter barreled .45 pistols. This isn't the 60's-90's anymore.

It's been a while, but I loaned out my CS45 for some in-house testing when one of the local distributors offered to arrange a gel-shoot.

The round which interested me at the time was the previous generation of Winchester's T-Series (SXT/RA45T). It's been so long I can't remember whether the +P version used for the gel event was the RA45SXTP or the RA45TP (and my notes are buried somewhere in a box).

Anyway, these are a couple of the test rounds recovered from that session, fired from my own CS45, in the 4-layer Denim/Gel test. I do recall the velocities being 802fps for the standard pressure load and either 837fps or 839fps for the +P, with quite similar penetration/expansion. (Guess which is which in the pictures. )




FWIW, the loads I typically carry in my CS45 are usually the standard pressure 230gr RA45T or the Rem 230gr HPJ BJHP (Golden Sabre/non-bonded), and maybe some Speer 230gr GDHP if one of the remaining boxes I have makes its way to the top of one of my ammo cabinets ... and I don't lose any sleep worrying about it.

I prefer not to carry any of the USA 230gr JHP's, as those are old-style hollowpoints, but I've done so when the more modern HP's weren't available.

I tend to keep the +P loads I have for my larger/heavier .45 pistols, as they can be a handful in the little CS45 when it comes to producing some muzzle snap/whip. I just don't see an over-riding advantage gained from the increase in recoil.

BTW, although the CS45 uses a mag body with added indentations near the lips (to help prevent displacement of the top round under the increased recoil in the little gun), the reduced slide mass & travel and fast cycling of the little gun still requires a firm grip and locked wrist. Every now and again I've seen someone unintentionally relax at the wrong moment and experience a feeding stoppage.

There was a time when a CS45 owner told me how he had to be careful if using one of the 185gr +P loads, as the snappy recoil could cause a functioning problem if he didn't pay close attention to his grip.

I remember talking to one of the factory techs just after the stainless versions were being released, and he said that all of the R&D testing had been done with standard pressure 230gr loads, as their marketing surveys of the major ammo companies indicated that 230gr loads outsold the 185gr loads by a very significant margin, so that was their intended customer base.

Someone brought a CS45 to me for inspection a few years ago, complaining of feeding problems. Although the recoil & mag springs were several years old (and I replaced them), I couldn't find anything wrong with the gun, and it functioned normally when I fired it with budget W-W 230gr JHP's. I had a couple other instructors fire it, with similar results, until I asked them to let their wrists lightly break/flex as they fired it, while I watched ... and then the gun would have a feeding stoppage. The "problem" didn't occur when they tightened their grip/wrist.

Then again, I know another guy carrying an early CS45 and his gun has never choked on anything we've ever used for qual ammo in the years he's qualified with it ... and when I asked him about his springs one time, he said he hadn't replaced them since buying the gun.

From what I've been told by the factory and a couple of distributors, the CS45 was one of those real sleepers. It was very popular among LE shooters as an off-duty weapon, and never required anything in the way of advertising.

My own CS45 has been fired a lot. I usually replace the recoil spring either every 1-2 years of frequent shooting, or every 1-2 cases of ammo fired, and I've replaced the recoil spring at least several times. (The mag springs about every other recoil spring replacement.) Last time I asked, the normal replacement recommendation was the same 5 yrs/5K rounds as the larger 3rd gen's, but I tend to lean toward a rather conservative side of replacement with the smaller guns.

Oddly enough, I tend to prefer my CS9 to my CS45, when all is said & done. Fits my hand better, and the recoil has less snap & whip to it, even when I'm shooting issued 124gr +P or 127gr +P+ loads.
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:45 PM
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I'm looking at a CS45 online and the description say DAO but it has a Safety on both sides. I've never seen a DAO with a Safety. Would this gun be a Traditional SA/DA?
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Old 03-03-2017, 11:19 PM
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The DAO CS45 had a laser etched model designation on the left side of the frame; "CS45D". It was also a slick slide, ie. no decocker paddles on the slide.

Perhaps the seller just put up a stock photo. In any case, I'd Email for some detailed photos of the actual gun before I bid, or sent any money to the seller. Good luck! Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI
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Old 03-04-2017, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtC View Post
I had an AMT .45 Backup. The size and shape was the only thing it had going for it. No sights, brutal trigger sting and finicky with ammo.

When the CS45 came out, we tried to mimick the Backup. S&W converted it to a DAO and reduced the slide lock. I then had the slide rounded off like a 1911 and shortened a couple of magazines. A pic is below.

Totally reliable and easy to qualify with, but the size was still considerably larger than the BackUp. Weight was the same.



PS: The widest part of any Smith DA .45 is the safety. If you go DAO, the widest part is the factory grip, at just a hair over 1 inch. You can shave one or two steps off the slide lock as well.
That is the most beautiful 3rd gen smith I've ever seen ....

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Old 02-27-2018, 06:10 PM
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I have carried mine, bought new, for over 20 years. Still works great. It is a DA/SA SS model.
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