Upgrade to Glock!!??

[Pasifikawv]

My regular LE/NRA Instructor keeps harping at me to "upgrade" from Sigma 40 to Glock 22/23 for my everyday sidearm.

While my everyday sidearm is primarily for concealed carry and PP, I do sometimes use it for duty (SPO/AS) carry. My instructor cringes if I tell him I used my S&W as a "duty" sidearm.

I am by no means a "Glock-hater" and certainly wouldn't dislike having one. Always enjoyed shooting them and find them more accurate than my Sigma. I typically use a Glock for my annual qualification. But is it really an "upgrade" worthy of the extra $200 to go Glock?

Should I make the trade and go with a Glock and forsake my Sigma?? I am torn...

[OKFC05]

You could upgrade the instructor instead.......
I give my fellow instructors heck if I catch them advocating only a particular brand (NRA seriously frowns on this practice)

I would put an M&P, XD, several others in the list if I wanted to consider an "upgrade" to a Sigma.

Then there is the question of what problem is this supposed to solve for you, exactly?

[Glock 'em down]

That Sigma will do everything that Glock will do.

I'm a recovering Glockoholic.

[BigRich315]

Get an M&P and tell him you went ahead and "upgraded" past the Block .

In all seriousness, I agree with OKFC05 on the instructor, if he really means it. The Sigma is an entry-level gun but very capable. I wouldn't expect NATO to purchase a number of them if that wasn't the case. Unless you personally find fault with the weapon, don't let anyone talk you out of it.

[Beauetienne]

Carry what you want but, if a friend or acquaintance asked me whether they should upgrade from a Sigma, I would say yes.

Sig, S&W M&P, Springfield XD, Glock....

Not knocking Sigma but, I have shot it and all the above (own all but the M&P). When life or death is the question, I would upgrade.

G'Luck.

[Littledragon777]

I got rid of my Glock 23 and bought 2 M&Ps a 40 and a 9 and have never looked back.

[tlen]

I sold a G23 and upgraded to a SW99C and haven't looked back.....

[Trippy]

i have fired a glock and a m&p both in .40 i then bought a m&p .40, i love it, i find it a very accurate, smooth shooting weapon i did not care for the glock, just my opinion

[1066]

I do not own a Sigma, but I have shot one and have to say it does not have the best trigger in the world. With what little shooting I've done with a Sigma, it seemed adequate for any self defense need, and is very reasonably priced.

That being said, I have to go with Beauetienne. If any friend of mine asked, I would also recommend an upgrade from the Sigma if they could afford it. I also think the Glock is just one of many options, the XD and M&P should both be considered and are both fine guns. I own some of each, and can not say any is the best. I personally prefer the M&P since I have a small hand and the M&P fits it perfectly with the small size grip insert.

Also, don't rule out the S&W 3rd Gen autos. If you search the forum you will find ample discussion - these are fine guns and I would argue superior to the Glock, M&P or the XD in many respects.

[surveyor47]

All right, I just have to stir this pot!

Somehow, I cannot get past the idea of a holster being a guns primary safety! Depress that little trigger safety and you have a trigger pull about equal to a cocked S&W revolver! How many of you semi auto guys would walk around with a cocked S&W revolver, relying entirely upon the holster to keep things from touching that trigger? Thats about how much sence a Glock makes to me.

There is just something about an external safety on a semi auto that makes so much sence to me. Grip safety. Thumb safety. Something more than a little lever on the trigger. This is why the S&W 3rd Generation semi autos make so much sence to me.

The S&W M&P with thumb safety makes sence to me. The Springfield XD with grip safety makes sence to me. Glock does not compute to my revolver brain.

[SWID]

Originally Posted by surveyor47

All right, I just have to stir this pot!

Somehow, I cannot get past the idea of a holster being a guns primary safety! Depress that little trigger safety and you have a trigger pull about equal to a cocked S&W revolver! How many of you semi auto guys would walk around with a cocked S&W revolver, relying entirely upon the holster to keep things from touching that trigger? Thats about how much sence a Glock makes to me.

There is just something about an external safety on a semi auto that makes so much sence to me. Grip safety. Thumb safety. Something more than a little lever on the trigger. This is why the S&W 3rd Generation semi autos make so much sence to me.

The S&W M&P with thumb safety makes sence to me. The Springfield XD with grip safety makes sence to me. Glock does not compute to my revolver brain.

Wasn't there some football player that ruined his whole career over this very thing?

[1911ES]

I almost bought a Glock 36 two weeks ago ....... until I looked at, and held the Smith & Wesson 1911 Compact ES .45
That pistol was perfect .......... End of story

[sonny]

Originally Posted by Pasifikawv

My regular LE/NRA Instructor keeps harping at me to "upgrade" from Sigma 40 to Glock 22/23 for my everyday sidearm.

Should I make the trade and go with a Glock and forsake my Sigma?? I am torn...

If your Sigma has ever ONCE failed to fire, sell it.
My son-in-law police sergeant is a 20-year departmental weapons trainer and supervisor and runs SWAT. His department upgraded from Glock 22 to Glock 35, and he carries a model 27 backup inside his vest.
I've owned about eight of them. I don't remember ever having a single malfunction. My 27 once digested a friend's double-charged reload of Bullseye and kept on running, once i picked up the blackened mag, reinserted it and cleaned the black **** off of my hands and fingers.
My 26 is the most accurate of my five present Glocks, but I'd go to the line with any one of them.
Yeah, my friend,...make the trade. This is not the time to be loyal to any particular company.
Sonny

[81jasonG23]

I actually traded my glock 26 in for a 5903, some ammo and mags. I have always loved the look of the smiths. After I refinished it , installed a new spring kit and aligned the sights it shoots like a dream.

Around here a sigma can be had for around $300 new in box...glock...not quite

[d625]

I don't know anything about a Sigma, but I can give you an opinion regarding Glock v M&P

I shot various Glocks in local competition for five years or so, and got interested in M&P's after handlining one. So I bought an M&P9, and very quickly found that I liked everything about it better than a Glock.

So I bought an M&P9L Pro, and in the process ended up with no Glocks and two Smiths. I have about 3500 rounds between the two, and still like them better. The longslide Pro is as accurate or better than my G34 was, the ergonomics are better, it points better, etc.

I had to send one Glock back for a minor problem which I don't remember, and one M&P back for an ejection problem. (Ejection problems have been a problem, but seems to show up from round one)

Only remaining question is reliability, and that will take some time for me to know. I accumulated something more than 20,000 rounds on Glocks with NO failures of any kind. NONE.

This has nothing to do with Sigmas, so take it for whatever it's worth.

[Aglifter]

Glocks are good in that there have been so many of them made, the problems are well sorted, and there's a great deal of choice for holsters, etc. The main fault w. them, IMO, is terrible ergonomics.

Personally, I don't like the M&P trigger, so I haven't bought one yet -- I'm sure it works, but it just doesn't feel right to my finger.

I've been very happy w. my XD45 5", and have been thinking about picking up an XDm - but I gave my XDSC to my sister-in-law. I carry a G29 at times, I think Glocks feel OK in the sub-compacts, but I despise the full-size ones.

My Sig P226 is very well made, after it had a trigger job done on it, it felt as good as the W. German models. A DAK sig would basically have a very nice double-action revolver trigger on it, and may be a good choice.

[d625]

Originally Posted by Aglifter

Personally, I don't like the M&P trigger, so I haven't bought one yet -- I'm sure it works, but it just doesn't feel right to my finger.

Good point about the trigger. It's likely that if a gun "feels good" when you're thinking about a change, it will work for you when you shoot it. As an ex-dealer, I couldn't count the number of buyers who looked at several guns to find the one that felt the best, but never pulled the trigger on any of them.

All of us have an idea about what is a "good" trigger. I personally like the M&P trigger better than a Glock when I shoot it, and better than an XD when I dry fire it (I've never shot one).

Last club match I attended, I talked to one shooter who traded his XD for an M&P because of a better trigger, and one who traded his M&P for and XD because of a better trigger.

I guess the point is to make sure you put the trigger pull into the equation when you are making a change

[G-Mac]

Originally Posted by surveyor47

Depress that little trigger safety and you have a trigger pull about equal to a cocked S&W revolver! How many of you semi auto guys would walk around with a cocked S&W revolver, relying entirely upon the holster to keep things from touching that trigger? Thats about how much sence a Glock makes to me.

If I cock the hammer on a S&W revolver, I don't have to pull the trigger very far to make it go "bang". Maybe about a millimeter?

If you have a holstered Glock, with one in the chamber, doesn't the trigger have to move a lot farther to make the weapon discharge?

I'm just not sure if you're comparing apples to apples.

For those who feel the need for a Manual Safety on their Glock, you can always have a Cominolli kit installed...

www.cominolli.com

[C/O]

If you like the gun, keep it. I recently sold a Sig P229 so I could get a S&W 3913NL. With the left over cash I used it to help buy a new computer. My friends think I was nuts, but it works better for my needs. Do what is best for you.

[M29since14]

Originally Posted by OKFC05

You could upgrade the instructor instead...

Just how much experience with the Sigma does this instructor actually have?

Without some specific reasons that you can get your hands on, especially if you are concerned about the money, why change?

I agree with the poster who said the Sigma is adequate. The Glock may be a marginal upgrade in terms of a somewhat better trigger action, and may stand up to more use/abuse. Other makes/models offer additional improvements. If these factors are not important to you, there is no need to change. JMHO.

[surveyor47]

All that it takes to fire a Glock is 1 finger to depress the safety and trigger. I love them on the range, where their consistent single action trigger leads to good grouping and magazine capacity completely outclass my J-frames. Hard to beat from that standpoint.

Real world 24/hour per day handling is where the revolver has an edge, which outweighs the firepower of a semi auto. The gun rides a pocket holseter, in and out of the pocket, lives loaded for months at a time, gets checked regularly. Those are circumstances which could easily lead to an accidental discharge. And yes, I do use a pocket holster. The primary safety of a DA revolver is its long heavy trigger pull, not some ditsy little lever that one tends to forget even exists. You touch the trigger of a Glock and it goes off. That is what it is intended to do. If you dont want it to go off, you keep it inside of a protective holster, designed to prevent accidnetal discharge and keep your finger off the trigger. Its a fine point, but one which requires special training. The strong point of a DA revolver is that it requires a deliberate pull of the trigger in order to fire the gun. I believe that a DA revolver or a S&W 3rd Generation semi auto is better in surprise close quarters situations, being less likely to go off accidnetally. That trigger can become awful light when the adrenalin starts pumping.

[toocool]

I've had Glocks, Sigmas, XDs, an XDm and a few M&Ps. Currently I have a 3913, Ruger SR9, S&W model 39-2 and a Ruger P345. I actually went out last weekend and looked for another Glock, 'cuz I feel left out not having one, but they just don't "feel" right to me...the grip frame on the 19/23 just feels too short, the full size felt fat and blocky to me. I think I'm going to get a 5" XD .45 if I can find a black one around here...lately all I find are the tan and OD frames, and I'm sorry, but guns shouldn't be tan or green...

[Tim Nagel]

I had bad luck with a Sigma, I would either go with the S&W M&P, Glock, or the Springfield XD, I have carried a Glock 22 both on and off duty for 10 years, I really like the Glock, but that said I really like the S&W M&P in both 40 and 45!

[Pasifikawv]

Thanks to all for the feedback. Much appreciated.

I have been weighing this decision for several months and while I like both the Sigma and the Glock, I prefer the Glock - but the Sigma is a awesome product for the price.

I think it comes down to the dollars and the deal for me. If I can find a good deal for a good trade, I'll make the switch. But I won't overpay for what seems to be only a slight upgrade at bests.

Have had no luck finding a decently priced used Glock at local retailers or the area trader rag. Did see some decent police trades from internet sellers, but the trade terms were poor. There is a gun show nearby next weekend that I will attend. If there is a reasonable trade to be made, I'll go for it. If not, I am content with my S&W.

[Titan]

I'm quite sure you won't find a 'decent' trade even-up, so you'll likely have to spend $50-$100 to get into a used Glock.

For that money, you could also trade into an M&P or, for a few dollars more, maybe even find a new one on sale.

From my perspective, I believe the M&P is a clearly superior gun to the Glock. I've bought four M&Ps and love them all.

Do yourself a favor and check out the ergonomics and performance of the M&P before going Glock.

S&W service is also a difference maker.
.

[Pasifikawv]

Originally Posted by Titan

I'm quite sure you won't find a 'decent' trade even-up, so you'll likely have to spend $50-$100 to get into a used Glock.

For that money, you could also trade into an M&P or, for a few dollars more, maybe even find a new one on sale.

From my perspective, I believe the M&P is a clearly superior gun to the Glock. I've bought four M&Ps and love them all.

Do yourself a favor and check out the ergonomics and performance of the M&P before going Glock.

S&W service is also a difference maker.
.

Almost got a M&P 40 about 2 weeks ago. Saw it on Friday, went back for it on Monday and it was gone....

If I can find a decent trade for a Glock 22/23 at plus $50 - $100, I'll jump on it. Most likely have to be a private seller for that amount. Most dealers want closer to $200 - even for 2nd Gen police trades. That doesn't fly for me.

[Deltaboy]

Get a new instructor Send your Sigma in if your not happy with the Trigger.


Too many People forget dead is dead and it doesn't matter if the perp is shot with a Sigma , Glock or a Sig! He is still dead!

[Knightrider03m]

Originally Posted by deltaboy

get a new instructor send your sigma in if your not happy with the trigger.


Too many people forget dead is dead and it doesn't matter if the perp is shot with a sigma , glock or a sig! He is still dead!

x2

...........

[remat457]

Does the pistol function reliably? Does it meet your needs? If so, I wouldn't worry about it.

If you want to change to a different pistol (or expand what you own) go for it!

[remat457]

Originally Posted by surveyor47

Somehow, I cannot get past the idea of a holster being a guns primary safety! Depress that little trigger safety and you have a trigger pull about equal to a cocked S&W revolver! How many of you semi auto guys would walk around with a cocked S&W revolver, relying entirely upon the holster to keep things from touching that trigger?

That's not a fair comparison. The Glock striker is not cocked. It is slightly pre-cocked and uses the trigger pull to complete. There is about 4mm of slack that needs to depressed and then about 7lbs to break. None of my revolvers are anywhere near that bad in single-action. In fact, in double-action most of my revolvers are lighter and cleaner

But, Glocks are sure inexpensive, rugged, and reliable. I hope my M&P proves to be the same.

[hittman77]

Originally Posted by surveyor47

I love them on the range, where their consistent single action trigger leads to good grouping and magazine capacity completely outclass my J-frames. Hard to beat from that standpoint.

Real world 24/hour per day handling is where the revolver has an edge,

+1 and.....why not own both. Hard to have too many.

[surveyor47]

My son and I just went through that debate when he recently purchased his first handgun. He was gaga for Glocks. I insisted that it had to have some sort of safety other than a trigger lever. We finally settled on the Springfield XD Compact 45ACP, because it has a 1911 style grip safety as well as a trigger safety. It helps that this gun has an excellent reputation. The tipping point came when a friend let me shoot his XD45 at 100 yard metal plates. I hit on the 2nd shot and continued hitting about 1 to 2 rounds per magazine. Not bad for a 3.5 inch barreled gun. Since my son is in the USMC, he has asked me to develop loads for his gun, so I will get to test fire it now and then.

I have been through my semi auto phase. I now own a CS9, a CS40 and a CZ75B which largely exist as safe queens. The CS9 is an OK, but not great pocket gun, but the 642 carries so much easier. Strictly speaking, the Glock 27? 40 subcompact is about the same size as my 642, hits harder, more accurately, with more firepower. My one and only objection is the safety issue.

[Jimmymac46]

I was forced to carry a then new Glock 22 with the also new 40 S&W. The good news...it was utterly reliable. Went bang every time. The bad news....it pointed like a 2x4, and shot about the same. I had a model 27 for off duty. When I retired, I turned in the 22, sold the 27 and have never looked back.

Obviously, reliability is of primary importance so the Glock will continue to remain a viable choice. But let me throw a dark horse into the discussion. I strongly believe that the Beretta model 92/96 is the best and finest full sized auto available today. Why? It is every bit as reliable as the Glock, with the smoke stack jam totally eliminated. It will run in mud, rain, or dirt. It is a natural pointer (handle one and I believe you will agree). It is all metal, no plastic! It has a manual safety....ambi. It uses steel magazines. It is made in the USA! And, finally, it is reasonably priced.

It's only down fall is it is a large gun, and does not conceal well. I have two, but still carry my Smith 3914 as my CCW gun (will change shortly to my Smith 457) due only to portability.

In summary, try a 96, you might just like it.

[rchance]

I like all of the choices people have mentioned. If I were looking for something else to upgrade to and still use a plastic gun I would go with the M&P or the XD. Both to me have a smoother trigger than the glock but I still carry a glock for the simple reason you can do almost anything to it and it will still shoot. I have a sigma and the trigger is so stiff it doesn't shoot near as smooth as the above mentioned. No matter what others say I'd carry what feels right to you.

[jeffj13]

Originally Posted by surveyor47 View Post
All right, I just have to stir this pot!

Somehow, I cannot get past the idea of a holster being a guns primary safety! Depress that little trigger safety and you have a trigger pull about equal to a cocked S&W revolver! How many of you semi auto guys would walk around with a cocked S&W revolver, relying entirely upon the holster to keep things from touching that trigger? Thats about how much sence a Glock makes to me.

There is just something about an external safety on a semi auto that makes so much sence to me. Grip safety. Thumb safety. Something more than a little lever on the trigger. This is why the S&W 3rd Generation semi autos make so much sence to me.

The S&W M&P with thumb safety makes sence to me. The Springfield XD with grip safety makes sence to me. Glock does not compute to my revolver brain.

Reply With Quote

Originally Posted by SWID

Wasn't there some football player that ruined his whole career over this very thing?

No. Mr. Burress ruined his career by carrying a weapon in NYC illegally, that is, without having a permit to carry. He compounded this stupidity by carrying in an unsafe manner (not properly secured in a holster).

jeff

[n4zov]

Like some others, I am not completely happy with the Glock from a safety standpoint, but there are alternatives if you want to add a manual safety to the Glock:

The Glock Manual Safety

TopGlock.com: Siderlock Glock User Installed Manual Safety

[surveyor47]

To me, a Glock is strictly a holster carried weapon. It is not something to be left in a household drawer. It is not something to be slipped into the pocket, unless you have a specially designed pocket holster and NOTHING else in your pocket. It is perfect for a soldier in a combat zone, nothing better. But for a civilian CCW, I think there are much better choices, such as the S&W CS9, CS40 or CS45.

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by remat457

That's not a fair comparison. The Glock striker is not cocked. It is slightly pre-cocked and uses the trigger pull to complete. There is about 4mm of slack that needs to depressed and then about 7lbs to break. None of my revolvers are anywhere near that bad in single-action. In fact, in double-action most of my revolvers are lighter and cleaner

But, Glocks are sure inexpensive, rugged, and reliable. I hope my M&P proves to be the same.

Glocks ship with a 5.5 pound trigger.

[Old Navy]

Originally Posted by kbm6893

Glocks ship with a 5.5 pound trigger.

Last I heard they were going to bump that up for none contract civilian guns, they even had it on there website a while back. I don't think it will happen, but I could be wrong.

I like my 10 mm and 45 ACP for SD use and CCW, so I would love a 610 in 3" but the average price is about $1300 so I thought about a Night Guard 310 and again the price was a killer. So I am still pocket carrying a G29 compact 10 mm that shoots like a dream but due to trigger I can not pocket carry with one in the pipe in my pocket.

Over the last few years I have come to the conclusion that the only place for a Glock is actual combat or a range because of the lack of a manual safety. I may later buy the manual safety to install and finally be where I want to be, but just hate the idea of having to do an aftermarket mod to get the gun right.

The Slider lock for Glock's in my opinion is an accident waiting to happen or going to get someone killed when they haven't practiced enough and killed or injured when they can not get the gun to fire in time. I know a lot of people will do the slider safety due to price but IMHO you better invest in a proved safety on the frame like the other more expensive model that needs in most case be installed by someone who knows what they are doing.

[blaiwayw]

When my son wanted to purchase a centerfire handgun, I suggested the Glock 19. Readily available under $450 with multiple 15 round magazines. Reliable, easy to break down and lightweight. I offered to buy my daughter a handgun, if she completed a firearms safety course. When she completed the training, I provided her with a Glock 19 and several hundred rounds of 9mm. I have used a Beretta 92 for IDPA and have switched to a Glock 19 for that purpose. I CC a Glock 26.

[rchance]

If you don't feel comfortable with a glock then don't buy one. As for me I carry one daily and don't have problem with it. Its easy, just point and shoot. What else do you need?

[shawn mccarver]

Originally Posted by surveyor47

All right, I just have to stir this pot!

Somehow, I cannot get past the idea of a holster being a guns primary safety! Depress that little trigger safety and you have a trigger pull about equal to a cocked S&W revolver! How many of you semi auto guys would walk around with a cocked S&W revolver, relying entirely upon the holster to keep things from touching that trigger? Thats about how much sence a Glock makes to me.

There is just something about an external safety on a semi auto that makes so much sence to me. Grip safety. Thumb safety. Something more than a little lever on the trigger. This is why the S&W 3rd Generation semi autos make so much sence to me.

The S&W M&P with thumb safety makes sence to me. The Springfield XD with grip safety makes sence to me. Glock does not compute to my revolver brain.

Striker fired autos can go off if dropped on the muzzle and the firing pin safety is designed to prevent this.

Unlike an auto with a hammer, a striker fired gun can also go off if dropped on the rear of the gun. The little trigger safety is there to prevent the gun firing from an inertia action if the gun is dropped on the rear end of the slide. Without the little trigger safety, a drop on the rear from a sufficient height could cause the trigger and trigger bar to move rearward far enough to overcome the firing pin safety and the sear and let the weapon discharge.

This is the main reason for the little trigger safety.

[aterry33]

The only revolvers I own are Smiths and I love them dearly, but to be brutally honest, when it comes to autoloaders, I'll take my Glocks over the stuff that S&W makes any day.

Still, the M&P series is a giant leap forward from the autoloaders Smith was producing before.

[Vulcan Bob]

I have no brand loyalty. If it suits your needs and hand, a good gun is a good gun period. I owned three Glocks and considered them good guns, but they really did not fit my hand well. Couldent reach the mag release without shifting in my hand and they just felt blocky. Then I handeled the new S&W M&P's, with the small grip adaptor in place, just perfect. Bought a .45 with the thumb safety (old 1911 guy) then got a 9mm. They worked flawlessly right out of the box and that was that. Sold the Glocks and now my tupperware needs are satisfied!

[tlr16]

I have owned Glock, Beretta, S&W, M&P, SIG, Kimber, Ruger, Keltec, Colt like most people say try them all find out what fits in your hand and go with it. Its all your personal preference and what you feel comfortable with. Then take it out and shoot the hell out of it to learn everything about it and how it shoots.

[cotton]

My 2 cents.... my glock with 33 rd mag did what I expect all firearms to do that is go bang every time I pull the trigger and send the bullets really close to were i point it.. that said, its still ugly but so was my bull dog and I still liked him

[remat457]

Originally Posted by kbm6893

Glocks ship with a 5.5 pound trigger.

I know that's what they claim. I don't they are counting the take up slack.

[Wolfgang]

1911 style pistol and Browning High Power. You have release the safety manually. Remember also that there is absolutely nothing wrong with a good DA revolver. I have lots of different guns but these three styles are what I always turn to. There is no one best gun for every person or they would only make one kind, in one caliber. Wouldn't life be boring if that were the case! Use what you are comfortable with and can hit your target with and in a caliber that has the ability to get the job done. The number one priority is that whatever you choose, it has to be as reliable as anything made by man can possibly be. It has to go bang the first time and every time thereafter.

Best,

Wolfgang

[Arkieron]

I would sure spend some time with a Glock 22. I have a S&W 27, 17, and a 3913. The two revolvers are 3Ts. I also have a modified Beretta 92 which shoots extremely well. My Glock 34 will outshoot all of them. I don't carry it concealed because it has a competition 2 lb trigger. It shot well with a 5 lb trigger. I see the Glock 22s perform in USPSA matches and understand LE's passion for Glocks.

[nitesite]

Holsters for all the other handguns mentioned are, except for a very few, much more limited compared to what's out there for GLOCKs.