File this one under Buyer Beware and I got VERY lucky today!

My 4046 (definitely a used police gun) arrived Friday from Superpawn in Las Vegas very dirty and I had enough time to clean her up and bring it to a gun show I worked this weekend. The man at the next table is a new friend and happens to be a very experienced gunsmith. When the slide came off, he immediately noticed the sear release lever and the ejector spring that sits under it were missing. The lever is supposed to be positioned directly next to the hammer and it fills a space next to the firing pin safety lever. So, at some point whenever a dissasembly took place, these parts didn't make it back into the gun...even though it continues to function properly for dry firing.

The gunsmith told me not to fire it until I get the replacement parts back in. I've already ordered them from Numerich. Without the parts in place the lever flops around and would definitely get torn up, plus the gun could fire out of battery!

So, when buying a used auto, definitely remove the slide and check for missing parts which I could not since I bought the gun on line! At least have it checked like I did...I got very lucky!

If I can, I will take some photos when I do the fix and post them for a show and tell!

Bob

When it comes to S&W's DAO metal-framed pistols there's something referred to as the Spring Rule.

This is because some DAO frames have space for only one lever on the right side of the hammer (firing pin safety lever), while some other DAO frames (later models) were made space for two levers on the right side of the hammer.

The Spring rule is essentially this ...
On the left side of the frame: There's one lever (ejector lever) and there must always be a spring located under it.
On the right side of the frame: If the frame has space for two levers on the right side of the hammer, a spring must be used. If the frame is of the version which only has space for one lever, a spring must not be used on that side.

The reason for this goes back to when the earlier model DAO guns had frames which were machined with only enough space to accept a single lever, the firing pin safety lever. Since no sear release lever was present a spring wasn't needed on the right side.

The frames of the TDA guns, however, had to have space machined into them for both a firing pin safety lever and a sear release lever on the right side. Two springs were required in these models (one on each side of the hammer).

At some point someone had a brainstorm and realized they could standardize how the DAO & TDA frames were machined in the area to the right side of the hammer. The Eureka moment reportedly occurred in the form of someone realizing that a frame cut with space to accept two levers could still be used for the DAO models if the 'sear release lever' was modified from the traditional design to one which lacked the lower leg (or 'foot', which is was what pushed the sear nose forward to allow the hammer to fall [decock] from the cocked, single action condition when the safety lever was depressed, but which wasn't needed in the DAO guns).

In the DAO frames which were made with space for two levers the modified sear release/spacer lever is only used as a spacer, but is needed to fill the space which would ordinarily be filled in a TDA gun with a traditional sear release lever. The DAO spacer lever is identified with two holes in the top of the lever (as well as the lack of the lower leg which engages the sear nose). Also, this DAO spacer lever requires no fitting as is needed on a traditional sear release lever (since it lacks the foot where the fitting is done).

So, whether or not a spring is needed on the right side of the frame depends on whether or not the frame was made with space for two levers. If it was made with space for two levers, then a 'spacer' sear release lever (NOT a traditional one) is needed and a spring must be used on that side of the frame.

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I had thought that my 6946 was missing something until someone here pointed out the above. Mine did not require a spring.

Fastbolt...thank you very much for your learned response...Numerich did not make a distinction (or offer) a choice for a "spacer" sear release lever as opposed to the designated sear release lever, key #63, PN # 722410, $3.50 on the schematic view for the 4046 DA.

As is, the firing pin safety in my gun has a very lightly raised circle on it's left side (as the gun points to the front) as if its function is to act as a contact point, and the part in general is now just loose and free to wiggle left and right. This part, as I gleaned from the Numerich schematic, is the firing pin safety lever, key #20, PN# 329870

According to my gunsmith, this is an early gun with a stainless frame...it is a very heavy gun and was engraved from the Caddo Parish Sherrif's Office in Shreveport, Louisiana. Someone tried to remove it, but I figured it out. The SN: is TVF7566

Therefore, my hopefully simple follow up question is this...will I do no harm to install the standard part I have coming from Numerich...and of course, with the spring too? I can easily see the empty spring seat using a flashlight.

Thanks,

Bob

Hmmmm....Interesting.

I own a 'Caddo Sheriff's Office' 4046 too.

Fastbolt and Stevie,

I'm attached 2 photos to better illustrate what I've been explaining...photo one shows the top of the firing pin safety lever just laying down in its slot unable to do its job with no spring under it and the sear release lever not present...or the spring that would be holding both of them up.

The other pix shows a knife blade holding up the lever.

Stevie, I can only imagine you have checked out your Caddo Sheriff's Dept. 4046. If so, what did you find?

I have considered calling them just to see if they have an armorer who might know something. I found them easily with a Google search, but I can't drag the link into this box...kills it! So, just search: Caddo Parish Sherrif's Office and it will pop up with a location and phone #.

Fastbolt, I will will try to call Jeff at S&W tomorrow AM...thanks for the info...

Bob

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Sent you another PM.

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Fasbolt,

Here are the pix you requested:

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Just like mine.....I don't think you are missing any parts.

My right of hammer lever has no spring, and doesn't appear to be room for another lever.

Not much to find out about Caddo Parrish, except they have a large Sheriff's department....like 600 or 700 members.

I got my 4046 in the late 1990's, so they must have traded in at least some pistols that early.

They do have a heck of a web site posted for the community, and appear to be a first rate organization.

Originaly, I thought my pistol may have came from Caddo County Oklahoma. However, I've seen at least 2 other 4046 pistols floating around marked same as mine.

My 4046 is serial THF21XX, supposidly dates to around 1991.

Hi Stevie...

Good to contact you...and glad you're out there too and saw this post of mine...if you have successfully fired your gun as is with no problems, then this is the best "proof" that the gun is complete and as it should be...I'm thinking Fastbolt will conform this soon.

As you say, you got your gun in the late 90's and mine just came up for sale probably by someone who got it back when you did. My SN: is TVF7568...is yours even close?

Thanks,

Bob

Mine works great!

If your trigger system is a bit stiff....lube it up with some 'Break Free' in the little hole in the frame. Mine was pretty horrific in the trigger pull area. I took the thing apart and cleaned the crud out, lubed it up, and it's decent now.

Not so many parts in these 4046 DAO guns as say...a 4006, 3913 or any other Smith auto with decocker and SA/DA capability. Although the trigger system is about the same

Hi Steve,

I didn't ask you about a stiff trigger on my 4046 but I do have some Break Free and had already cleaned and lubed the gun with it...I'm more concerned with the (missing) parts issue and on a call today to the S&W customer support department, a rep told me the gun "should have a spacer and spring next to the firing spring safety lever" as shown in the schematic and it would need to be fitted to the gun to reassembly and fire it safely....so, now I'm in the middle between Fastbolt and you...

Stay tuned on this one,

Bob

From the pics.....don't look like you have enough room to get another lever on top the hole for the spring.

If I recall, the sear lever on a decocker rides on top the spring too. Sort of a micky mouse system when trying to stuff all the pieces back inside in proper sequence.

I'm no expert on S&W autos, so will defer to the professionals, but I'm thinking your good to go.

Okay, I'm going to post some pics I just took out at my bench which might help in this discussion.

Please excuse the quality because I haven't upgraded our camera for a few years, and I'm trying to take the pics through the magnifying lens of my bench lamp.

The frame being used for this example is a compact alloy .40 with parts removed for different shots/angles. It's a TDA gun which means it requires the use of a firing pin safety lever and sear release lever on the 'right' side of the hammer ('right' side meaning when the frame would be held normally, with the muzzle end pointing away from the viewer, not in the reversed manner I used for taking the picture). The frame has been machined to accept 2 levers on the right side of the hammer.

See how much wider the slot on the right side of the hammer has been cut?

Here's another pic, taken from the front and allowing you to see the way the wider slot has been cut from another angle. This one shows the stepped cut to provide room for the tip of the sear release lever when it's depressed for decocking in TDA guns.


This next image shows the frame with all levers installed, along with a TDA (spurless) hammer present to keep the levers positioned and lend some perspective. I've put the levers in place without the springs under them so they'll lay flat and hopefully give you a better idea of how they fit in the machined frame cuts (instead of sticking up at an angle).

Notice how the wider slot is needed to allow room for 2 levers? (Also notice how the ejector is thicker than the firing pin safety lever?)

Here's the same thing taken from an lower angle, so you can see why the stepped cut is needed for the tip of the sear release to lever when a TDA gun is being decocked and the lever is being fully depressed within its frame cut.


Okay, here's an image where I removed the sear release lever from alongside the firing pin safety lever. Notice how wide the frame cut now appears without the second lever being where's it supposed to be when the frame is cut for 2 levers?

I apologize for not having a DAO frame of either earlier or later production vintage at hand to use for pictures, but I'm not particularly an enthusiast of S&W's DAO metal-framed traditional guns. I'm a TDA user, myself. Sorry.

However, you can see where the frame cut for the ejector is much narrower than the frame cut in the TDA frame which is intended to accept 2 levers on the right side.

The only picture in any of my armorer manuals for the TDA/DAO guns is that of a newer production DAO model which requires the use of the spacer lever next to the firing pin safety lever, and it's taken at an angle from the rear, which doesn't show the actual width of the frame cut (only that 2 levers are sticking up out of the frame to the right of the hammer). Sorry.

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Fastbolt,

I can really see now what you have been telling me...the frame of my 4046 does not have a wider step cut slot to accept two(2) levers...there is only the one slot just like the ejector's slot. So I expect that when the parts arrive, the safety lever will not fit into the slide of my gun.

And, I suppose the spring is not necessary either. Would it be harmful to install it?

Thanks,

Bob

It's the sear release lever that isn't needed in your older gun if you don't have room for 2 levers. The firing pin safety lever must be installed.

As far as experimenting with installing a part (second spring) which we were told not to install when the Spring Rule was discussed and applied to the different DAO models, depending on production vintage? Not something I thought needed to be asked. Never played around with seeing what would happen if it was in the gun, either (not to mention I don't have an older DAO gun on hand to examine ).

I'd think that if they took the time to talk about the 'Spring Rule' and include it in the armorer manuals, their engineers apparently wanted it done a certain way depending on the model involved and they must have a reason for it. I wouldn't be inclined to go against their recommendation when it comes to a working defensive gun that needs to be reliable (and safe). After all, the latest armorer manual I have states under the DAO gun Spring Rule - "Right side: If the frame has space for 2 levers, a spring must be used. If the frame has space for one lever only, a spring must not be used." I tend to err on the conservative side of safety when I see words like "must" in armorer manuals ...

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

My older 4046 just has the single lever/single lever groove frame, and no spring on the right side of the hammer.

The little lever does flop around some with the top end off the gun. But it doesn't rattle assembled. Rides on a little white plastic plunger in the slide(I think it's plastic?).

These are superb pistols if you can deal with the DAO trigger pull.

If you hold your slide above the frame as it would be oriented when installed, the plunger directly above the firing pin safety lever should be the steel plunger. The plastic (nylon) plunger is located above the ejector and can be either white or black, depending on what was being provided by the vendor when the gun was produced.

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Now you got me all paranoid....have to go pull the top back off the gun to see which side the plastic plunger is on!

Bet it's ok...I could be visually dislexic.

Yup...The white plunger is on the left side of the hammer. Can just lock the slide back and see the plungers.

It's certainly not uncommon for someone to remove the slide, flip it over, and then mix up which side is which when comparing it to the frame which hasn't been similarly flipped over.

One way to remember which side is which when the slide is flipped is to remember the extractor is always going to be on the "right" side.

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I was just looking at a few of my autos. Interestingly, neither the 1086 or the 1076 have a spring on the right hand side. My 1066 does have the spring on the right.

It looks like the frame decocker models don't need the spring either. Tomorrow I'll check some of the other frame decocking guns I have.

I checked out the rest of my frame decockers and none of them have a spring on the right except for my 4026.

Fastbolt, could this have something to do with the recall. All of my frame decockers have the double pin mark from the recall rework except for the 4026. It has never had the repair. I have shot the 4026 extensively and never had a problem with it.

Another interesting item, when I broke down my guns, I had the slide release from the 4576 and the 4026 next to each other and noticed that the 4026 was longer then the 4576. I measured the frames and the 40 caliber frame was wider then the 45 ACP. Seems backwards! Any thoughts on this?

Hey this is a great post. I don't have any like problems but I surely enjoy the informative post. Thanks to all for sharing.

I'd have to get out my old manuals which covered the frame-mounted decocker models. (Picture a mild shudder occurring. ) I have some parts from one, to keep as an example of an older model, but I haven't had the pleasure to work on one. (As I recall, even the previous senior armorer had never had one come across his bench for repair, either.) Nowadays I'd call the factory if I had to work on one for something involving the actual decocking mechanism, and cheerfully return it to them on their dime for any repair.

Are you talking about the lever's pin length? The .40 frames are thicker than the .45 frames. If I remember right, I was told the early prototype of what later became the 645 was made by cutting a 59 frame in half lengthwise to cobble together a frame thin enough for the .45 (but thicker than the 39 frame).

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I'm not sure what the part is called. It is the integrel pin to the slide release that pushes through the hole in the frame to hold on the slide. When I noticed the "pin" was longer I measured the frames and the 40 S&W frame is about 2/10" wider then the 45ACP. I got about 1.0" for the 4026, and .8" for my 645, 4576 and 4506.

Now I wonder if my 10MM frames are the same as the 40 S&W or thin like the 45ACP; I'll have to go measure some.

Most likely this is because (most of) the 40xx series pistols are double stack magazines, necessitating a wider mag well and frame than the single stack 45xx pistols. The 10xx pistols should be on the same/similar frames as the 45xx, not the 40.

Yep, wider frame required for the double column .40 mags (like with the 59XX/69XX frames).

There are some earlier single column mag .40's, like the original 4013/4014 and CS40, which are basically built around .45 frame dimensions, and then the 4040PD which is built along the dimensions of the 3913.

The width of the .40 frames matches that of the 9mm frames which accept double column mags, which is why S&W made that little bump on the .40 mags so the 9mm guns shouldn't accept them.

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Bob or Stevie, would one of you mind posting a photo of the CPSO markings? It's interesting to see a "neighborhood" gun on here.

Hello TxShooter,

The CPSO markings on my gun were not easy to read...just got lucky picking out enough of the letters with reading glasses to put it together...the "Parrish" letters were completely gone...Vanna White would have been proud of me. Surprisingly, I was just now able to get 2 photos with enough detail to pick out the "CADDO" and the "...IFF'S". Whoever did the buffout job, dropped the ball! When I get done with 3M pads, they'll really been gone for good.

Bob

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My 4046 markings are identical to Bob's guns, except just slightly more visable(not much more legible).

Looks like they attempted to buff them off, but whatever method used to letter the frame must be fairly tough.

The inscription says Caddo Sheriff's Office

What did they use to 'stamp' the frame'?

Must be laser etched or some-such. Almost looks like ink.

I have several police trade ins. All that are marked as such are stamped. This one is the only gun I have marked with this mystery method.