why was this model sold as part of the "value line"? what constitutes the "value line"?

what are they missing?

anyone here own one? what are your impressions?

thanx,
trailblazer

Basically it was S&Ws' attempt to bring own the costs of it's third generation pistols. If you go up to the top of the page and use the search function and put in any of the 910/915/410/411, you'll get lots of info and comments.

i already tried that....this is what i get
"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms".

Yeah, that works great. Well anyway the 410/910 are the '95up versions of the 411/915 which started the "Value Line" by using the base 3rd generation guns, plain black rear sight blade and came with one mag only to keep the retail price down. The 410/910 used simpler machine work, a few plastic parts and sights to hold down the price. It keeps the retail about $300 less then the comparable 3rd generation gun.

One of the areas of cost cutting was in the slide and frame. There are fewer operations performed and the finished product and, as a result, the slide and frame are somewhat blockier than the 3 gen guns. The slide is almost square, whereas the 3rd gen guns are radiused on the top. The frames on the value line guns are also a bit wider where the frame meets the slide. And where the 3rd gen guns had stippling on the front of the trigger guard and grip, the later value line guns were just smooth.

I need to add that these differences have no impact on the reliability, function or accuracy of the pistols. They may have a small impact on shootability - stippling is nice, but not essential. I own pistols from both lines and believe that the triggers on the value line pistols may have a slight edge on the 3rd gens for smoothness and feel. I don't know why this might be because I understood that the internals for both lines are identical.

Nothing at all wrong with the value guns. I always keep an eye open at shows for these pistols as their owners frequently under value them. Good luck with yours - if that's what you buy.

Out West

I have a 457 (the "value line" .45 they are not just 9s & 40s) I picked up at a Pawn Shop last year and love it. It is a good size, feels good in the hand, and I shoot it really well. And that last point is what really matters after all. I keep it as my "truck gun" and it is a nice complement to my 645. I actually shoot the 457 a little better if you can believe that. I think I need A LOT more trigger time on the 645. I would not hesitate to buy another S&W value line pistol based on my limited sample and will be looking for a .40 in the future.

Had one for less than a few months. Was an OK shooter but didn't really like it. Sold it and lost my shirt! Have since moved on to nicer S&W's

I bought both a 908 (9MM) and a 410 at the same time used LNIB a couple of years ago. I hope to never have to part with either one. I like them both. They are a very good combination of size, dependability and value.

Just call me abnormal I suppose. I am probably the exception rather than the rule, but I almost like the slightly blockier, less refined slides on the "value series" better than the other 3rd generations that I own.

P.S. I am looking for a 457 now to go with the aforementioned 908 and 410.

__________________
Regards,
Russell

Hi,

I am considering getting one of these as well, but I have a couple of questions for those who own the 410 model.

1- What is the action? There are conflicting reports online. Some places say DAO others say DA/SA. If you have one of these pistols, please let me know.

2- I have read that there are problems with the trigger quality and sites. Anyone know why this is being said?

3- The one I am looking at is $460 delivered (new). Is there a better price out there?

Thanks in advance.

They are SA/DA or TDA. Triggers are typical of all TDA guns, they're not a 1911. The sights are good but are plastic not steel. $460 is a good price for NIB. I have a distributor that I can get them from but they would run $470 to your FFL plus his transfer charges. Mags and springs are the same as full size 4000 series, grips and holsters are the same as full size 4000 and 5900 series guns.

Not to sound ignorant, but on a traditional double action pistol such as this, can you cock the hammer manually before the first hot? Does simply pulling back the slide to load the first round cock it? Or do you have the long trigger pull on that first shot no matter what?

You can thumb cock the gun or as long as the safety is off the hammer will remain cocked when you chamber a round. One reason some people don't like the bobbed hammers on the compacts, it makes them harder to thumb cock.

Today, Dec 2, I pick up a mod 410 like new for $295. Compared to whatI pay for my SIGs what a deal. Pistol feels good and will be a traveling piece. I am retired law enforcement.

There were 2 rounds of the value line guns. The early series was pretty much a 3rd gen with just some cosmetic machining differences in the frame and slide, plastic sites and a plastic guide rod. The later VS guns were NOT the same internally as a normal 3rd gen. Most notably they did not have the lock system between the barrel and the slide in the machined ring on the barrel that locks in the groove on the underside of the slide. IMO and through personal experience the later VS pistols are vastly inferior 2 a real 3rd gen the early ones however are a 3rd gen that is a little cruder in look but has 100% the performance.
Some where here there are a couple threads with photos showing the real differences I am talking. (Found thread look here for more detail 915 vs. 910 -- no lug on 910 barrel?)
Bottom line if looking at a Value series pistol pull the slide and look for the groove in the slide just in front of the ejection port. If it's there the pistol is a 3rd gen with out some machining in the slide and frame but the same functionality if it doesn't IMO stay clear!

I also have a 910 and picked up a 457, with orig box, S&W wax paper with bore brush at a gun show yesterday. It's the two tone dealers model. Production code 130120. Spec. Ord. 6276 if that mean's anything.
Nothing wrong with Value Line at all.

Owned a 910 at one point and it was an OK Pistol no doubt. However owned a couple other real 3rd gens also and thought it was much lesser than them. Had slightly worse accuracy and was more ammo sensitive than my other 3rd gens. I also had to run down a metal guide rod as the plastic rod in mine had a nick on the rim where it engaged the barrel and kept moving.
Prices are so low on real 3rd gen the ? is why go with a later VE gun instead of a real 3rd gen?
Bought this 4013 TSW in a local Pawn shop for example last year for $350 OTD and trust me this one is lights OUT as a shooter!

Hey, that's your opinion. I've owned, fired, sold and traded 59xx, 40xx, 45xx, 10xx 3rd gens and 2nd gen's too and the Value Line are real guns. I like them a lot.

The 910 I owned just did not group as well and was not as reliable with diverse ammo as my other 3rd gens have been and that's a fact. May have gotten a bad one don't know but do know for fact that are internal differences in the 910 in particular from the other 3rd gens i have owned. With prices in my area almost identical will stick with a 5900 series pistol.
Do own a CS 9 that is from the value line I really love however just was not fond of the 910 I owned.

I have two 411's and love them both. They have the barrel lugs and all metal sights and guide rods. My first one had TruDot night sights installed with some glow remaining. Besides the sights, the only difference between the two is that the later one (by serial number) has a narrower hood on the barrel and matching cut on the slide.

Trigger pull on both are the same as my standard 3rd gen Smiths, which is to say heavy but smooth with a crisp final break. Accuracy is more dependent on the shooter than the gun, as in all my 3rd gen Smiths including my Shorty Forty with Briley barrel bushing.

I can't speak to the 410 as I don't own one and have never even held one. I believe it's these that have the plastic parts, sights and guide rods. I'd avoid these models, and if I got one I'd be looking to replace the guide rod with the metal part.

digiroc

I have a 4013TSW and a 411 and I like both of them. I shoot the 411 more.

I think the 411 is the 1st gen is it not? I really tried to like the 910 I had but it just didn't perform like my other 3rd gens did. Sold it to buy my Shorty .40 so---
My pair of 3rd gen .40's.
TSW

Shorty .40

And gave this 4043 to my son so--.

No, the 411 is not a 1st Gen gun. The 1st Gen guns were the 39, 39-2, and 59. There were no .40 S&W guns until the 3rd Gen.

The 411 was a Value Line version of the 4013 (I think). The 410 was the same gun, but with a post 1994 AWB 10 round magazine instead of the 11 round magazine that came with the 411.

I think, but it's not entirely clear, that that the 910 was the only 3rd Gen gun that had the locking lug/slot removed during the redesign. I know that my 457 retains that set up and I'm pretty sure that the 908 does as well.

I would also, on a side note, suggest that personal comments be removed from posts. I'd hate to see anyone draw the unwanted attention of a moderator.

__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.

Actually, the Model 411 was the pre-Value Line version of the short-lived Model 4004... although most folks today don't draw any distinction between the pre-Value Line Models 411 & 915 vs. the 1994/95 and after "true" Value Line pistols (not even the new "Bible" draws that distinction).

The Model 4013 (non-TSW) is the 8-round single stack DA/SA 3rd Gen pistol.

That's just it, the Shorty 40 is on another level. Based off the 4006 it is hands down the best shooting 40 Smith and Wesson has made based on these here steel frames. I have shot guns that cost a lot more and for the value there can not be a better grouping 40 in Smith's stable. Sure you can shoot value guns well and group them somewhat well. I do that same thing with a used Sig P228 LEO trade in beater that I shoot a lot.

However, it will never group like the premium Performance Center Shorty series or even the TSW model. The TSW models just are not really enough for me, they tend to be in between models and for what they are really not a PC model or a value line yet bring a premium price. I have owned the lower tier Smith and Wesson pistols and besides the third gen 40s, all the 9mms I have owned have been too small for my hands and I did not like the grips when shooting them.

You are correct that the 410/411 was a 3rd gen variant . They are more a 4003 without the final machining than a 4013 though. I was referring to the 411 as the 40 version of the 1st generation of what became the Value line series.
Looked at a 410 last week pulled the slide and it indeed did have the locking ring so??

Yes, of the "Value line" pistols, only the 410 and 457 models retained the barrel locking lug.

All of the 9mm and CS models did away with it.

John