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Old 12-27-2009, 06:10 PM
sigbear sigbear is offline
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S&W 1911 Internal To External Extractor, When? S&W 1911 Internal To External Extractor, When? S&W 1911 Internal To External Extractor, When? S&W 1911 Internal To External Extractor, When? S&W 1911 Internal To External Extractor, When?  
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Default S&W 1911 Internal To External Extractor, When?

Just curious as to when S&W went from the Internal Extractor to the External Extractor?
Is the gun now more reliable as I would expect?

The reason I ask is because the sig P220 that I traded for the new S&W 1911 had the Internal Extractor which I had some minor issues with. Sig has since gone back to the External Extractor because of the many issues people were having with their guns.

So far I have had no malfuntions of any kind with the 1911 after 500 rounds (2 outings) of various mfg. ammo.

I hope this gun continues to fire flawlessly because it is my primary HD gun.

Sigbear
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:49 PM
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Fastbolt Fastbolt is offline
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S&W 1911 Internal To External Extractor, When? S&W 1911 Internal To External Extractor, When? S&W 1911 Internal To External Extractor, When? S&W 1911 Internal To External Extractor, When? S&W 1911 Internal To External Extractor, When?  
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S&W has been using one variation or another of the external, pivoting spring tensioned extractor going back quite a few years. The M39, for example, was developed with an eye toward military submission back in 1952, for example.

The P220 originally had a pre-tensioned internal extractor held in place by the breech block. When the machined stainless slides were produced in this country they tried an internal extractor which snapped up into place inside a recessed space. It was tensioned so it could be pressured and snapped into place in the slide once, and then it was recommended it be replaced if ever removed from the slide.

Why Sig didn't adopt the same external pivoting extractor tensioned by an offset angled plunger & spring (which I thought was somewhat reminiscent of that used on an 870) they were using on their 9mm, .40 S&W and .357SIG models I have no idea ... and I asked as much in the armorer class I attended. I was told that it was an excellent question to which the instructor had no answer.

Some time afterward Sig started producing their 220's with a similar external pivoting spring & plunger tensioned extractor. Makes sense.

S&W merely went with their strong suit and experience when making their own 1911, I'd think.

The debate between the external & internal 1911 style extractor is an ongoing one. Probably doesn't help that the Colt (Browning designed) 1911 & 1935 Browning GP (High Power) designs differed.

Not everyone seems to have experienced the same success with the external extractor in 1911's as S&W has been able to achieve.

From my perspective it pretty much comes down to the internal extractor being easier to adjust and replace in the field, but more likely to require repair or replacement, especially if subjected to neglect & user abuse ... (and unless made to careful specification and heat treated properly).

The external extractor will probably require armorer/gunsmith knowledge, experience & support at the bench for replacement. S&W armorers can adjust and fit the SW1911 extractor using a bar gauge (Go/No-Go), force dial gauge (to check extractor spring tension) and have an optional extractor spring available, if necessary, for an occasional gun (or gun & specific ammunition combination).

S&W has started using an even larger (oversize) extractor in their new Pro Series SW1911's, BTW. I don't know if it's the same one used by the Performance Center (after the original SW19111 extractor was designed by the PC and then shifted over to the factory when regular SW1911 production was transferred to the factory).
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1911, browning, colt, extractor, gunsmith, m39, military, model 39, performance center, recessed, s&w, sig arms, sw1911


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