41-1 genuine or not

[Aussie Collector]

377346117 on gunbroker, is this a genuine 41-1 or not?

I have looked at this one in great details and I’m still not convinced either way. The muzzle tells me it’s a fake however there is a slim chance that S&W fitted it by mistake. The box end label looks 100% correct and would be hard to fake unless you were in the know. With bidders going up to $3500 obviously they thought it was genuine, and so did the seller thinking it was worth more as it didn’t reach the reserve.

Also the mag condition doesn’t match the gun condition. As mentioned already the barrel is either early 1960 41-1 vintage or it’s a newer one with old style 41 muzzle brake fitted. The serial number is the earliest I have seen for the ones assembled from parts in 1977 although the serial is from the correct period.

What are your thoughts?

[Peter M. Eick]

I will give you that it does not look quite right. It is a heck of a package though. Maybe a quick call to Mr. Jinks could clear up the serial number and configuration prior to bidding?

[rck281]

What do you see about the muzzle that doesn't look right? I wasn't aware that there were any 41-1 with that late a serial number but this isn't any area that I study.

[TOM BECKWITH]

Box label and the 41-1 stamp look correct. Would guess the Brake is ok as it may have been attached from any lot. Aware of an A152XXX 41-1 with 1971 ship date.

[Aussie Collector]

The box table is why I'm not sure, its 100% correct right down to the color, style of the writing and stamp. The A15XXXX serial are correct they are the last production run, then came the A303xxx assembled from parts. This one has a few questions.

Cheers

[22target]

I had one in the a293xxx range in the box. I am pretty sure I lettered it but haven't been able to find it yet. I will post when I do.
Regards
22 target

[Aussie Collector]

22target, posting the letter on your A293xxx gun will be much appreciated. I would really like to see it, thanks.

Of the 28 made in 1976 I have details on 7 of them, all their serials being in the A303xxx-A304xxx range so a letter showing a much earlier gun will be of great interest.

Cheers.

[smithfan4152]

The gun on GB is a convincing 41-1, but the gun will not letter as a 41-1.
Also the gun was shipped very late, 1986. 3 letter prefix were the norm then. I do honestly believe there are holes in the record keeping on these 41-1s. I have a 5 1/2 41-1 that would not letter, and I would bet all I have, it is 100% original and not a fake.
Another 41-1 recently sold on GB, the entry was open on that particular gun, and it could not be said as 41 or 41-1.

[Aussie Collector]

It is possible that this gun sat around for 10 years before finally being shipped.

I have a 38DA 3rd from around 1890 that was sold new to a manufacturing company in Tasmania around 1920 when the factory was built, so it sat around for 20 or 30 years. Lost on a shelf, anything is possible?

I totally agree with you, I’m not convinced the records are correct, especially with the ones made form parts in 1976.

[22target]

I haven't had time to find my letter yet but I am pretty sure it came with one from a well known SWCA member when I purchased it 20 or so years ago. I am curious why civil thinks the gun in question it would not letter. I also had a 5.5 41-1 that didn't letter but after owning a couple others and tracking the serial numbers in the archives I think there was a batch made in the A1352xx range if my memory serves me. Roy mentioned that the probable reason for the factory letter not matching was that so few -1's were being produced especially in 5.5 bbl that it was just a clerical error. Civil is your gun in that range?
Regards
22target

[toxdoc1]

Originally Posted by Aussie Collector

377346117 on gunbroker, is this a genuine 41-1 or not?

I have looked at this one in great details and I’m still not convinced either way. The muzzle tells me it’s a fake however there is a slim chance that S&W fitted it by mistake. The box end label looks 100% correct and would be hard to fake unless you were in the know. With bidders going up to $3500 obviously they thought it was genuine, and so did the seller thinking it was worth more as it didn’t reach the reserve.

Also the mag condition doesn’t match the gun condition. As mentioned already the barrel is either early 1960 41-1 vintage or it’s a newer one with old style 41 muzzle brake fitted. The serial number is the earliest I have seen for the ones assembled from parts in 1977 although the serial is from the correct period.

What are your thoughts?

A 41-1 has a loaded chsmber indicator on the rear surface. It has not the provision for factory weights to be used. Both 41-1 and newer shoot well.
Barrels are easily changed. The older ones have a compensator that is not easily cleaned.

Bill M

[TOM BECKWITH]

Have a A1352XX 7 3/8" 41-1 (not lettered but box etc). Also a 41 (no dash1) 5.5" 413XX not lettered and a 279XX 5" - will be interesting to see how they go? Agree with smithfan - S&W records are not 100% especially on the nitty-gritty. Shipping, not logging got the $$$$$$s.

[22target]

In my last post I mixed up the quote about the 41-1 not lettering as
being from Civil and really it was from smithfan4152. Sorry about that.
Tom, were all the guns mentioned in your post all .22 short?
Thanks
22target

[smithfan4152]

I also Recently purchased a 5 1/2 41-1 that is Near Mint, and perfect, and it would not letter, A1353XX , I"m very happy to have seen you having one right there with mine, same range, thanks for that info.

Originally Posted by 22target

I haven't had time to find my letter yet but I am pretty sure it came with one from a well known SWCA member when I purchased it 20 or so years ago. I am curious why civil thinks the gun in question it would not letter. I also had a 5.5 41-1 that didn't letter but after owning a couple others and tracking the serial numbers in the archives I think there was a batch made in the A1352xx range if my memory serves me. Roy mentioned that the probable reason for the factory letter not matching was that so few -1's were being produced especially in 5.5 bbl that it was just a clerical error. Civil is your gun in that range?
Regards
22target

[civil1977]

Originally Posted by toxdoc1

A 41-1 has a loaded chsmber indicator on the rear surface.

Technically this feature is a cocking indicator not a loaded chamber indicator. It only tells you if the gun is cocked or not.

[Aussie Collector]

Another 1976 41-1 has appeared and is up for auction in January which is in the serial range I’d expect to see, A304xxx.
This is a fine example and well worth a look if you are after one.
Note that the year in the listing is incorrect.
Auctionflex Lot #142.