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  #1  
Old 01-29-2010, 11:59 AM
RayW9 RayW9 is offline
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Made out of both 5906 and 6906 pistols, I thought they were 6906 but see a LNIB with the box marked 5906 any help would be appreciated thanks rayw
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:16 PM
handgunner356 handgunner356 is offline
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The original Shortys were labeled as such in that they were a short version of the 5906. The Shorty-Forty is the same way, first runs were labeled 4006 Shorty. Since the PC doesn't usually mark a model number on the gun they can pretty much label the box whatever I guess.
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Old 01-29-2010, 05:44 PM
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Mark is right Lew Horton had some 2 tone full size 5906 frame guns with 3.5 in top end ,not sure the model, theses guns were not P/C gun no bushing or box cut rails, a few years later P/C and Horton put out a gun listed as a 5906 PC it was called same gun 3.5" barrel full size lower,but bushing and box rails. super hard to find. bob
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Old 01-29-2010, 05:59 PM
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Mark is right Lew Horton had some 2 tone full size 5906 frame guns with 3.5 in top end ,not sure the model, theses guns were not P/C gun no bushing or box cut rails, a few years later P/C and Horton put out a gun listed as a 5906 PC it was called same gun 3.5" barrel full size lower,but bushing and box rails. super hard to find. bob
I am looking at 2 Shorty 9's PC 1 marked 5906 and 1 marked 6906 wasn't sure thanks rayw thanks for your help ray
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Old 01-29-2010, 06:31 PM
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RayW9,
Here's my take, for what it's worth. All the "mini" guns, from the Second Gen 469/669 guns to the Third Gen guns are based on the M59/M59xx family. They are double stack guns, so the basic design starts there.
Now, the PC9 is nothing more than a PC version of the M6906 (which is a compact version of the M59xx family, see above). The interesting side note, if you are curious, is that all the PC 9mm guns are actually based on the 40 cal frames.... but I digress.....
Anyway, a PC9 is a PC version of the M6906.
Now, having said that, you also need to know that the PC has always followed their own numbering scheme, to say the least they move the bar around a bit. To my knowledge, there are no (or at the least very few) PC autos that have a frame marked model number, so any model numbers usually are what you see on the box (and through what they list on the product code lists), and there are several compact versions that they have produced that carry a full size designation for some reason. This is just a numbering scheme that they utilize, for instance - the Shorty 40 is box marked as a M4006 from what I recall, which is an all steel full size model number, but the Shorty 40 is a compact model that has an alloy frame. I believe also that the .40 Limited is also noted as a M4006 on the box, but while the gun is a full sized steel gun (that part is right), the gun is a SA gun, while a traditional M4006 is a TDA gun.
There seems to be no reason or rhyme in this respect (from the PC), so my advice is to not get too wrapped up about it. On the two guns you are looking at, my suggestion is to note the product code (should be a 170xxx number) and cross reference to the published reference materials to tell you what the gun should be.
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Old 01-29-2010, 06:37 PM
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Old 01-29-2010, 06:45 PM
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My 4"barrel pc 5906 has amodel # on the frame, idp5906.My 3.5" barrel, two tone, bobbed hammer, nrc01xx serial# .9 Recon is a 6906 frame in alloy.9recon on the frame.

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Old 01-29-2010, 07:05 PM
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greengael,
I knew someone would have one model marked....
Didn't know about the IDPA model, so I'll give you that.
On the others, of note the Recon series, the big banner markings (like the CQB), in my opinion are actually names, not Model numbers, but that's splitting hairs, but I did say "frame mounted model number".....
As you note, the Recon 9 is marked as such, but it's actually a PC6906 model, with embellishments. Is yours actually framed mounted or slide mounted?

So, I should maybe have noted that the early PC autos didn't have a Model number.
Oh well, I know that someone would come along with good data....

Anyone want to guess about the .40 Cal frames.?
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:38 PM
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My PC-9 is this one. It is marked 5906 on the box. It always seemed to be inaccurate to me as it more closely appears to be a 6903 following their own designation system.
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:46 PM
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Smith nut, my post was for purely informational purposes, not for corrective or debating reasons.[smile]I will let you know whether the 9 recon is frame or slide based. My point was that the alpha prefix for the serial # was rcn.,that being the model.I'm on pins and needles about the 40 frames![smile]
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Old 01-31-2010, 04:11 AM
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While I personally have no knowledge of the 5906 series shorties, I have a 5903 SSV with a full size 15 round alloy frame, blue/black 3 1/2" Slide and barrel, and the first model trigger guard. The original mags were 14 round, but I changed out the black followers to orange ones. As I prefer a real hammer on my guns, it now has a full spur hammer. Maybe not original, but I like it. -Ed.
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Old 01-31-2010, 02:22 PM
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Every now and then you see the serial prefix fit the gun. There is PPC06xx on PPC9s', TSW03xx on the the first run 356TSWs', my Recon9 is NRC02xx. It seems like they try to fit the P&C in there somewhere in the prefix but other than the IDPA which has a DPA00xx serial and a PC5906 model number on the frame, none of my PC guns have a actual model number on the frame.
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Old 01-31-2010, 06:59 PM
greengael greengael is offline
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Handgunner, perhaps you know this?is the "0" in your NRCO2xx a zero or an"Oh"[kind of a hooked on phonics explanation I know sorry]. Do you happen to know how many were produced? Thanks.
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Old 01-31-2010, 07:56 PM
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Well since they have always used the the three alpha/four digit serial numbers on the PC guns I'd have to say it's a zero. I believe there were two runs of the Recon9s', one that came with a matching numbered knife and the aluminum case. I'm guessing maybe 500 on each run but I can't say for sure, PC guns are always hard to track.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:24 PM
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Understood, and thanks. Mine was the Aluminum case matching serial #'ered knife run."A sure sign of quality" as my smartass LEO glockhead nephew observed[HEHEHEHE!]
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:37 PM
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I used to have a 5903SSV (short slide variant) that was basically a 5903 frame with a 6906 slide, nice gun, they didn't make many of them.
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:08 PM
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Here is one P/C model WITH a Model #, but I think there are only 20.
I know the P/C 9mms frames are wider than regular model 5906/6906, So my guess would be to accommodate the rail system, OR because S/W had more 40 frames sitting around..02
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:43 PM
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I have records of 2 Shorty 9s of the 1st 1993 run Performance Centers which are model PC5906 but the size of a 6906 with Serial Numbers in the PCV05xx range.

It was a limited run and sold out very quickly however there may have been more than just 20 or 40.
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:27 PM
James&theGiant1911 James&theGiant1911 is offline
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Shorties in 40 and 45 were all limited to 500 pieces not sure why the 9mm would be any different. I have a shorty 40 almost bought a 45 but the statement of the best 9mm ever out of the box is lol.

Since when did the 3rd gen 9mm smith become a BHP... because that is the best 9 ever made, it could make sense for you to say there are only 20 of them or so. Maybe you can be the first to get 2 grand for a shorty recon 9 mm super tactical performance center super special 9mm
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Old 03-28-2018, 12:46 AM
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James:

It is widely agreed that S&W put out some of the most accurate 9mm PRODUCTION guns ever. Although I will concede the point that Performance Center guns MIGHT not be considered production guns. Examples of those are the 952 and PPC9. Sig P210s and some CZ variants can give them a run for their money. The Sig X5 or X6 might be in there too but I have seen comparison tests showing the P210 and the Smiths I mentioned are more accurate. Browning High Powers do not even enter the discussion. If you are talking about modified guns then most any gun can be made extremely accurate by a super high end gunsmith. Not just my opinion though. Go look on Glocktalk or 1911 forums. There are some folks there (and here) who have tested the most accurate 9mm semi autos they could find and the Smiths came out on top.

I think I have heard your claims on this forum before about BHPs but the guns you mentioned appeared to be all non production guns.

But I am willing to be enlightened. Show me some links to tests of production BHPs doing better than 1.5 inches at 50 yards and I will be impressed.
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
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Shorties in 40 and 45 were all limited to 500 pieces not sure why the 9mm would be any different. I have a shorty 40 almost bought a 45 but the statement of the best 9mm ever out of the box is lol.

Since when did the 3rd gen 9mm smith become a BHP... because that is the best 9 ever made, it could make sense for you to say there are only 20 of them or so. Maybe you can be the first to get 2 grand for a shorty recon 9 mm super tactical performance center super special 9mm
Actually, while there were 3 runs of approximately 500 Shorty 40 MK1s each (1583 in total from 1992-95), there were only 220 of the MK2 2 tone produced in 1994. Additionally there were 653 of the black MK3 in 95-96 and 612 of the stainless MK3S produced in 1997. There was also a Shorty 40 2000 produced in, funnily enough, 2000 with a run of approximately 500 and an export version run a year later (though still marked Shorty 40 2000) that I'm not sure we have exact numbers for but it's thought to have been around 200 units.

The Shorty 45 was also not limited to 500 as 662 units were produced of the MK1 with fixed sights in 1996 and 179 of the MK2 with adjustable sight a year later.

The PC9/Shorty 9 was likewise produced in a couple runs of odd numbers of 611 and 345 from 93-97.

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Old 03-28-2018, 08:30 AM
James&theGiant1911 James&theGiant1911 is offline
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Two things stand out about the mentioned posts above. One, how many mk3 shorty 40s were adjustable vs fixed sights as mine is an adjustable model while some were fixed.

Yes, my browning hi power is a Novak custom firearm, but something that came as a practical two tone model and every bit as accurate as the 3rd gen custom smiths. If you happen to be able to come across master gun smiths who custom the BHP then you should know what I’m talking about. It is the difference between a fine Porsche and a corvette. The both do the same thing just one does it a little better and more refined than the other.

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Old 03-28-2018, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
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Yes, my browning hi power is a Novak custom firearm, but something that came as a practical two tone model and every bit as accurate as the 3rd gen custom smiths. If you happen to be able to come across master gun smiths who custom the BHP then you should know what Iím talking about. It is the difference between a fine Porsche and a corvette. The both do the same thing just one does it a little better and more refined than the other.
Refresh my memory.....how did the HP Practical model differ from standard production models..... all I recall is ; two tone, different (Millet) front sight and rubber grips.......
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:16 AM
James&theGiant1911 James&theGiant1911 is offline
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Refresh my memory.....how did the HP Practical model differ from standard production models..... all I recall is ; two tone, different (Millet) front sight and rubber grips.......
It came with target sites, a different combat type hammer, and pachmayr grips. The trigger, iirc is a little different as well. There is also a target model, I assume to compete with the X series from Sig.

Axl Foley and Hickok can’t be wrong

Browning Hi-Power Close-Up - YouTube

And of course like everything gun wise, the BHP are bat chit crazy price wise, so I guess if your buying PC 9s for under a grand then your doing good

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Old 03-30-2018, 02:20 PM
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The gun pictured in my reply is a P/C 4566 made before the CQB's came out not a 9mm.
The P/C model 5906/6906 type guns made from the mid 90's to mid 2000, were very accurate( seen many National Championships won by them)but the big deal was that they weren't only very accurate, they were VERY reliable, and most of all they were available,to an extent, and AFFORDABLE, 600-1000.
I had friends where money was no option, Ive seen customized BHP's, 1911's, even a glock (that had 1200 worth of accuracy work) none compared to the P/C guns in value.. Some shot as well, but malfunctioned occasionally, and cost at least twice as much.
As far as the cost these days , its like any other gun, that is a good gun, made in small quantities, never to be made again, and was actually a type of production gun , not like a custom 1911.
I saw a RECON recently go for over 1800, considering the price of a souped up Beretta, or a painted whatever model Glock or a 5000 dollar 1911, I think they are a good buy. Ive carried a PC 9 for 20 years or so, it still runs great and shoots as good as ANY 4" and under gun made. Bob
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Old 03-30-2018, 03:02 PM
James&theGiant1911 James&theGiant1911 is offline
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That is a fair assessment Bob, of course I think we are all responsible for the current state of affairs in that I have really seen no reasonably priced 3rd metal Smiths besides the beaters. PC guns and rare Lew Horton pieces are bringing big money, either the economy being so good or just collectors buying them up. I have not seen many Shorties or TSWs for that matter hitting the market. I sold off a 3913tsw and brought top money. So maybe we all are responsible for the market we currently face.

1200-2000 grand for run of the mil PC and distributor models not to mention the 4-5 grand custom BHPs, and 1911s. The days of 400-700 dollar 10xx, Recons, Shorties, PC models, and TSWs are long long gone.
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Old 03-30-2018, 03:05 PM
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There is no Hi-Power built whenever, wherever, and/or customized by any legendary craftsman that I would trade my S&W 845 Limited or my S&W PPC-9 5-inch to get. No way, no how, not ever gonna happen.

That may play well to this forum, play poorly to other forums, but it's still the way I feel and I'm dead sure certain about it.

The BHP is the textbook definition of cool and iconic and it's a darn good looking pistol also. At the same time, it's a straight up silly design-- mechanically speaking (in my opinion of course) when you consider how the trigger interacts with the sear.

Knowing nothing else, if someone told me that John Browning designed both, I could only assume the Hi-Power was his early practice for a FAR better design in the 1911 or it was a late night up drinking.

Yeah, I know that the BHP is only partially a JMB concoction. That makes me feel even better about the man, because the design is silly.
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Old 03-30-2018, 03:14 PM
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The days of 400-700 dollar 10xx, Recons, Shorties, PC models, and TSWs are long long gone.
Not true, not even close, with evidence put up on this forum over and over again repeatedly. And I also continue to keep piling up 1-2-3rd Gens and PC guns, as does my buddy, all of which are under the prices you apparently only ever see.

Looks like it's just you.
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Old 03-30-2018, 03:50 PM
James&theGiant1911 James&theGiant1911 is offline
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I would not necessarily call a Smith and Wesson performance model nor distributor special a custom firearm.

If you think that the inventor of the most prefect 9mm every made was high or drinking when he made said firearm then you would be sadly mistaken. John Browning invented the Model A5, the BHP, Model 12, and 1911. He is a freaking genius and you should be ashamed for even using his name in an insulting manner.

I wish I would have had the ability to met him at one point in time.

What you just have said is the most idiotic thing I have ever seen on a message forum.

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Old 03-31-2018, 07:15 PM
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Well, I was lucky enough to have a job that called for me to shoot a heck of a lot of service type handguns, over an almost 40 year career, and I mean shoot day in and day out. At least at that time I couldn't get enough, so it was great. The thing about regular service model type gun is you never knew what you would get. Most shot around 3-4" at 25 yards, fine for a service auto. Then some (a small number) shot the 7-8 inch group. Then some (again a small number ) shot 1-1.5 inch groups, we always hated to issue those out. Beretta 92s were actually really good shooters most would go 2 to 2.5 inch out of the box at 25 yrds.
We pre sighted the guns in before issuing them , as it saved a lot of class time. As only a few guys could do it, and classes ran about 100 or more you get the idea. Good thing PPC teaches you to shoot with both hands.
2nd and 3rd gen S/W s were generally 2-3" give or take, I thought the 92 easier to shoot well because of the longer sight radius.
As for the HP , I love that gun , first semiauto I ever owned, as the Dept I was working allowed anything off duty, and SERPICO was just out, Ha...
I thought I read somewhere that the first French contract called for the P 35 to shoot 2" at 50 meters, pretty impressive. Of course all gun will probable shoot better than what humans can get out of them.
Unless your name is Hemphill, Pride, Zins, Harmon or such....mere humans not...
Take care bob

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