Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-12-2010, 05:43 PM
Model39 Model39 is online now
SWCA Member
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fairport, New York
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 111
Liked 2,862 Times in 432 Posts
Default Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment

Here is the newly acquired Model 59, I finally was able to get yesterday. The gun is an early model in the A17XXXX range. The gun has the relief cuts on the frame for the manual safety, the longer magazine release button, longer slide stop/takedown pin, and the hole in the hammer. The gun also has five very unique features. (1)The gun is Saudia Arabian marked,(2) it has curved/arched backstrap with no lanyard loop, and (3)the gun is wearing factory thin, full checkered, non medallion Rosewood grips. (4) The fourth feature is that the gun has a grooved trigger. **Interesting note** The spring issue of the 2006 S&WCA journal on page 69, section 5.13 has a paragraph and picture of a grooved trigger on a steel frame Model 39, saying that this is the only one (grooved trigger) known to exist, but since Model 39 and Model 59 triggers are the same, we now know there are at least two grooved triggers in existense, since there is one on this Model 59. (5) The fifth and best feature of this gun is that the gun is in 7.65 (30 Luger) caliber. The barrel and magazine floor plates are stamped 7.65 M.M.
There are no proof marks anywhere on the gun or barrel. The barrel is wider at the muzzle to fit/work with the barrel bushing.
I know this Model 59 does not compare to the fabulous revolvers alot of fellow members own and have shared pictures of, but I feel this Model 59 deserves an honorable mention. Please comment.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-12-2010, 06:36 PM
The Last Standing Knight The Last Standing Knight is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,171
Likes: 401
Liked 397 Times in 208 Posts
Default WHOA!

A Smith 59 in .30 Luger????????

First time I've even heard of one much less seen one.

Is .30 Luger even MADE anymore?
__________________
The Last Standing Knight
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-12-2010, 06:50 PM
Engine49guy's Avatar
Engine49guy Engine49guy is offline
Member
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,674
Likes: 1,436
Liked 6,371 Times in 2,170 Posts
Default

Awesome!...Simply AWESOME!
I will have to open the book now and do some research.
Your backstrap looks like a Model 39-2, Is your gun a 14 shot double stack?
The "hole" hammer is from the original Model 39
Is your frame steel or aluminum and is it groove or check cut at the front & back or smooth?

Always wondered why S&W didnt offer wood grips for the 59 series or a barrel chambered for 30 Mauser.

Congrats on a rare and unusual find...Can you post more pics?
If you dont mind me asking...Where did you find it...?

NOT:..Just checked the SCSW 3rd edition, page 223 says "Unconfirmed report of at least one model 39 or 39-2 chambered for the .30 Luger cartridge...Nothing found about a 59 in 30 Luger.

You DEFINATELY should get it lettered!
NEED more Pics!

Last edited by Engine49guy; 03-12-2010 at 07:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-12-2010, 07:10 PM
1066 1066 is offline
US Veteran
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Great gun! You should think about a factory letter on this one.

I think the the 30 Luger is not uncommon in export guns. Browning made some Hi-powers in that caliber also.

I will tell you I hate to load the 30 Luger - between the bottleneck case and the small bullet I've never found them easy to reload.

By the way, don't use the 7.62 Tokarev ammo in you gun. The 7.62 runs at higher pressures even though the case size and bullet are simlar.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-12-2010, 07:49 PM
45Wheelgun's Avatar
45Wheelgun 45Wheelgun is offline
Administrator
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 2,305
Likes: 605
Liked 3,469 Times in 546 Posts
Default

Way cool. Thanks for sharing. Congratulations on finding a "one of a kind". That is always a prize.
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-12-2010, 07:51 PM
handejector's Avatar
handejector handejector is offline
Administrator
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,665
Likes: 1,730
Liked 23,303 Times in 4,496 Posts
Default

That's very neat.
I had heard of them, but never seen one.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-12-2010, 07:54 PM
5906fan 5906fan is offline
Member
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 424
Likes: 405
Liked 16 Times in 15 Posts
Thumbs up

definitely worth the 'honorable mention' a rare bird indeed.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-12-2010, 08:00 PM
snw19_357's Avatar
snw19_357 snw19_357 is offline
Moderator
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: N.AZ
Posts: 3,195
Likes: 65
Liked 792 Times in 274 Posts
Default

That's one heck of a find!!! Congratulations!

I can't wait to hear more about it!

Being a 59 fan, that's beats any revolver I have, no matter how shiny!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-12-2010, 10:20 PM
mlk18's Avatar
mlk18 mlk18 is offline
Member
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 289
Liked 753 Times in 342 Posts
Default

I wonder if it was part of a special order as it does not seem to be a cataloged item. Either way it has to be VERY rare. I too would get a letter from S&W asap. More photos please!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-13-2010, 12:32 AM
Model39 Model39 is online now
SWCA Member
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fairport, New York
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 111
Liked 2,862 Times in 432 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Awesome!...Simply AWESOME!
I will have to open the book now and do some research.
Your backstrap looks like a Model 39-2, Is your gun a 14 shot double stack?
The "hole" hammer is from the original Model 39
Is your frame steel or aluminum and is it groove or check cut at the front & back or smooth?

Always wondered why S&W didnt offer wood grips for the 59 series or a barrel chambered for 30 Mauser.

Congrats on a rare and unusual find...Can you post more pics?
If you dont mind me asking...Where did you find it...?

NOT:..Just checked the SCSW 3rd edition, page 223 says "Unconfirmed report of at least one model 39 or 39-2 chambered for the .30 Luger cartridge...Nothing found about a 59 in 30 Luger.

You DEFINATELY should get it lettered!
NEED more Pics!
To answer your questions. I got this from a serious collector who has a knack for finding great guns. I knew of this gun for a while and was lucky to buy it, as the original potential first buyer's deal fell through. Yes this is a 14 shot double stack gun. The front strap is serrated, and it has a half smooth, half checkered special Model 59 backstrap, as the grip frame is wider than a Model 39. The guns frame is alloy. Early Model 59's also had holes in the hammers up until about serial number A180000, when the practice was stopped. I was also able to confirm that the S&W factory did indeed make wood grips on a special order basis for Model 59's, not a regular offered item. Having just got this, I have alot of research to do. Thank you for you comments, and interest.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-13-2010, 01:10 AM
Cyrano's Avatar
Cyrano Cyrano is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,613
Likes: 13,528
Liked 6,580 Times in 2,505 Posts
Default

I haven't had much trouble loading the 7.65mm Luger round. I fire it in a 1906 American Eagle luger. I use mostly cast bullets, and there isn't much loading data around on it.

Dont worry about a 7.62 Tokarev round finding it's way into your 7.65mm Luger chamber, the Tokarev round is about 1/8 inch longer than the 7.65 Luger.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-13-2010, 01:12 AM
john traveler john traveler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: west coast
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 30 Posts
Default

I strongly suspect that your custom M59 came out of Italy. The reason I believe that is civilian ownership of military caliber pistols are restricted, and the 7.62 Parabellum is a popular alternative to 9x19. You will also find Browning HP and various Beretta, Czech, and German pistols in that caliber.

Also, in my business trips to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, many of the rarely available (if not most) sporting arms are imported from vendors in Italy. If you think gun ownership is tightly restricted in some parts of Europe and the USA, you should look at what it is like in Saudi Arabia. If you are not authorized military, police, or have "connections", it's very difficult to own a pistol.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-13-2010, 04:17 PM
Model39 Model39 is online now
SWCA Member
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fairport, New York
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 111
Liked 2,862 Times in 432 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Standing Knight View Post
A Smith 59 in .30 Luger????????

First time I've even heard of one much less seen one.

Is .30 Luger even MADE anymore?
Fiocchi still makes 7.65 (30 Luger) Ammo. I bought two boxes of ball ammo just to have to go with the gun. It was about $50 shipped.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-13-2010, 04:36 PM
John Sobieski John Sobieski is offline
Member
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default curious caliber choice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Model39 View Post
Here is the newly acquired Model 59, I finally was able to get yesterday. The gun is an early model in the A17XXXX range. The gun has the relief cuts on the frame for the manual safety, the longer magazine release button, longer slide stop/takedown pin, and the hole in the hammer. The gun also has five very unique features. (1)The gun is Saudia Arabian marked,(2) it has curved/arched backstrap with no lanyard loop, and (3)the gun is wearing factory thin, full checkered, non medallion Rosewood grips. (4) The fourth feature is that the gun has a grooved trigger. **Interesting note** The spring issue of the 2006 S&WCA journal on page 69, section 5.13 has a paragraph and picture of a grooved trigger on a steel frame Model 39, saying that this is the only one (grooved trigger) known to exist, but since Model 39 and Model 59 triggers are the same, we now know there are at least two grooved triggers in existense, since there is one on this Model 59. (5) The fifth and best feature of this gun is that the gun is in 7.65 (30 Luger) caliber. The barrel and magazine floor plates are stamped 7.65 M.M.
There are no proof marks anywhere on the gun or barrel. The barrel is wider at the muzzle to fit/work with the barrel bushing.
I know this Model 59 does not compare to the fabulous revolvers alot of fellow members own and have shared pictures of, but I feel this Model 59 deserves an honorable mention. Please comment.

Thanks for posting about your unusual Kingdom of Saudi Arabia stamped pistol.

I imagine the only reason why anybody would go the trouble of acquiring a 7.65mm version of a perfectly good 9mm is because the local laws prohibit possession of 9mm. As john traveler mentioned, Italy is one of these countries, but not the only one.

Perhaps a Saudi acquired a 7.65mm while working in one of these countries and brought it back home to be stamped with the Saudi coat of arms and Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Please post the contents of your historical letter as an update.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-14-2010, 04:09 PM
Model39 Model39 is online now
SWCA Member
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fairport, New York
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 111
Liked 2,862 Times in 432 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlk18 View Post
I wonder if it was part of a special order as it does not seem to be a cataloged item. Either way it has to be VERY rare. I too would get a letter from S&W asap. More photos please!
Here is a photo of the left side of the gun with the slide locked back to show the exposed barrel. I removed the barrel from another 9MM 59 I own to show how the barrel differs between the two. The standard factory 9MM is blued and is straight, while the 7.65 (30 Luger) barrel is not blued and bells out at the end to fit/work with the slide bushing.
You can also see the special curved backstrap the gun has. I am reluctant to post alot of pictures, as the camera I have/use cannot give the clear sharp pictures I know all of you would like me to produce.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-15-2010, 01:01 AM
goldenlight goldenlight is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,157
Likes: 2,287
Liked 383 Times in 214 Posts
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1066 View Post
Great gun! You should think about a factory letter on this one.

I think the the 30 Luger is not uncommon in export guns. Browning made some Hi-powers in that caliber also.

I will tell you I hate to load the 30 Luger - between the bottleneck case and the small bullet I've never found them easy to reload.

By the way, don't use the 7.62 Tokarev ammo in you gun. The 7.62 runs at higher pressures even though the case size and bullet are simlar.
Tokarv and Mauser C-96 wont chamber in a 30 Luger pistol. While similar looking, the 30 Luger is case 19mm long, and the '30 cal' Tokarev/C96 Mauser ammunition is based on a longer 25mm case.

Sadly, the Tokarev/Mauser ammunition is far more common; there is military surplus on the market, due ti it's extensive use in foremer Soviet Bloc countries, as well as in China, and elsewhere in SE Asia.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-15-2010, 03:23 AM
Combat_Diver's Avatar
Combat_Diver Combat_Diver is offline
US Veteran
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 553
Likes: 46
Liked 79 Times in 34 Posts
Default

Very interesting and good find. I remember while in Germany in the late 80s, Frankoniea had Smith 659s for sale that had a three barrel set, 7.65 Luger, 9x19 and 9x21. Germans were buying alot of Smith and Wesson products then with several models not listed in the US.

CD
__________________
De Oppresso Liber
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-22-2010, 08:40 PM
surfgun surfgun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: OC
Posts: 337
Likes: 85
Liked 129 Times in 74 Posts
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1066 View Post
Great gun! You should think about a factory letter on this one.

I think the the 30 Luger is not uncommon in export guns. Browning made some Hi-powers in that caliber also.

I will tell you I hate to load the 30 Luger - between the bottleneck case and the small bullet I've never found them easy to reload.

By the way, don't use the 7.62 Tokarev ammo in you gun. The 7.62 runs at higher pressures even though the case size and bullet are simlar.
FYI: Tokarev ammo is the lenght of >.30 Mauser not .30 Luger.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-22-2010, 08:41 PM
surfgun surfgun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: OC
Posts: 337
Likes: 85
Liked 129 Times in 74 Posts
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1066 View Post
Great gun! You should think about a factory letter on this one.

I think the the 30 Luger is not uncommon in export guns. Browning made some Hi-powers in that caliber also.

I will tell you I hate to load the 30 Luger - between the bottleneck case and the small bullet I've never found them easy to reload.

By the way, don't use the 7.62 Tokarev ammo in you gun. The 7.62 runs at higher pressures even though the case size and bullet are simlar.
FYI: Tokarev ammo is the length of .30 Mauser not .30 Luger.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-22-2010, 11:13 PM
attaché attaché is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Miami, FL and Italy
Posts: 13
Likes: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I don't think that the pistol comes from an Italian importer. Every single pistol imported in Italy must have the proof marks of the "Banco Nazionale di Prova" of Gardone Val Trompia on barrel, slide and frame (Banco Nazionale di Prova per le Armi da Fuoco Portatili e per le munizioni commerciali.).
.30 Luger IMHO is a very nice caliber,although less powerfull than 9 Parabellum and actually it was used in Italy and in many countries where 9x19 was not legal as well. At present in Italy they bypass the problem with 9x21. Although reloading .30 luger could be a bit tricky, shooting it is a real pleasure and as a matter of fact, it is amazingly accurate,
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-23-2010, 12:41 AM
Cyrano's Avatar
Cyrano Cyrano is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment Model 59 7.65 (30 Luger) Caliber..... Please comment  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,613
Likes: 13,528
Liked 6,580 Times in 2,505 Posts
Default

I wonder if any 39s had 7.65mm Luger barrels?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
223, beretta, browning, cartridge, grooved, military, model 39, rosewood, scsw, serrated, smith and wesson, takedown, tokarev

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
model 640 in 9mm Luger serger Smith & Wesson - The Wish List 10 03-11-2017 06:23 PM
DWM 45 Caliber Luger Cyrano Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 7 08-30-2016 07:10 AM
Questions for Luger owners.... I got my 1st Luger!!! PICS ADDED policerevolvercollector Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 43 07-08-2016 10:16 PM
.22 Ladysmith 3rd Model For Comment weaponscollector S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 34 02-15-2016 06:52 PM
Seeking price comment on 2d model .455 HE El Biblioitecario S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 9 01-10-2014 08:49 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:53 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)