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Old 03-23-2010, 04:11 PM
gbw gbw is offline
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Default Model 59 and +P ammo

I have a mint condition M59 no dash, nickel.

Lately I've seen a good bit of +P 9mm ammo at shows but I've hesitated to buy any and shoot it in this gun. I'd hate to damage it.

Does anyone know the company line on 9mm +P in the M59? Occasional or continuous use?

Thanks for your help//
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:37 PM
hhb hhb is offline
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Default Mod 59

Model 59 made before introduction of +P ammo. I believe S&W's stock answer is; "No" unless it's marked on the handgun.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:42 PM
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While it's true that the Model 59 was made before "+P" ammo, probably millions of +P rounds have been fired from the 39/59 series guns. Illinois State Police even used +P+ ammo in their alloy frame Model 39. I had a nickel Model 59 and a blue 459, both alloy frames, and didn't worry about shooting +P. I wouldn't make a habit of it, just for the price of the ammo, but I believe the gun would handle it all of the time.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:44 PM
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S&W is staying on the safe side. If you shoot nothing but +P+ your gun will wear out faster, but for occasional practice with your self defense rounds, I wouldn't worry about it. I think it would be hard to find a manufacturer who officially accepts +P or +P+ rounds. The S&W semi-auto's have been nothing but reliable with everything I have asked them to do so far.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:36 PM
Racer X Racer X is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdV8 View Post
S&W is staying on the safe side. If you shoot nothing but +P+ your gun will wear out faster, but for occasional practice with your self defense rounds, I wouldn't worry about it. I think it would be hard to find a manufacturer who officially accepts +P or +P+ rounds. The S&W semi-auto's have been nothing but reliable with everything I have asked them to do so far.
Ruger does with my KP-95DC, and so does HK with my USP 9. KelTec says some use of +P is OK in my P-11. It will wear out faster, but has a lifetime warranty.

I ask S&W about +P in my 439, and they said not approved. The guy did say it won't cause it to fly apart with the first round fired though. VERY ocassional use is fine.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:20 PM
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For at least the last twenty years S&W has pretty much said something like; Use commercially loaded ammo, not non-standard or reloaded ammo which has not been subjected to internal ballistic pressure testing.

Factory +P ammo has been tested. I use it in my 459 and 5904 but because they have an aluminum frame I don't want to fire only +P or +P+ out of it. I'm not going to find out how much it would take to damage it but so far it hasn't.

Honestly, if I had a mint 30 year old Model 59, I'd probably limit the +P. But, that's me.

Last edited by snw19_357; 03-23-2010 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:28 PM
cwt7691@aol.com cwt7691@aol.com is offline
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we shot Federal 9PBLE +p+ for years then went to the 5906 then shot the same Ammo in that
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
Ruger does with my KP-95DC, and so does HK with my USP 9. KelTec says some use of +P is OK in my P-11. It will wear out faster, but has a lifetime warranty.

I ask S&W about +P in my 439, and they said not approved. The guy did say it won't cause it to fly apart with the first round fired though. VERY ocassional use is fine.
I have not seen the Ruger manual you are talking about (it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong though or haven't seen something). The P95 manuals posted online basically say that if it is loaded to factory/SAAMI/NATO specs it will be fine.

To clarify my earlier response, I believe S&W is being cautious with this warning. The 59 series has been proven to be reliable with any ammo fed to it. However, the ultimate answer is up to each person shooting. I am willing fire +P+ on occasion, but is not usually every session and not a lot of rounds. For full time range work I, personally wouldn't shoot only +P and +P+ rounds. I think I would stick with about 5% or less being a non-standard pressure. This is mainly to keep it runing longer, kind of like not running a car constantly just below its red line. Sure, it can take it, but it will reduce the mileage.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:18 PM
BLACKHAWKNJ BLACKHAWKNJ is offline
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I think a stronger recoil spring is one way to reduce wear using +p ammunition.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snw19_357 View Post
Factory +P ammo has been tested. I use it in my 459 and 5904 but because they have an aluminum frame I don't want to fire only +P or +P+ out of it. I'm not going to find out how much it would take to damage it but so far it hasn't.

Honestly, if I had a mint 30 year old Model 59, I'd probably limit the +P. But, that's me.
Sounds like good advice. The gun is mint, but I like shooting it.
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Model 59 and +P ammo-ximg_0751_1-jpg   Model 59 and +P ammo-ximg_0756-jpg   Model 59 and +P ammo-ximg_0757_1a-jpg   Model 59 and +P ammo-ximg_0760a-jpg  
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:22 PM
BLACKHAWKNJ BLACKHAWKNJ is offline
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What you really need is a 659.
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:04 AM
gbw gbw is offline
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Possibly, I really do enjoy this M59, and I've got loads for it now that print 3"-4" groups at 27 yards so it's a shooter. The 659 would be stronger/tougher. We'll see. I've really been pondering an FNX 9mm when they come out. Never owned a polymer gun yet, I'd like to try one. I'll also pick up a good M39 when I see one. And of course S&W revolvers of just about any stripe, so long as they're pinned, can never have too many. I'm just an old fashioned dude with it comes to S&W. It was sad you see, but that fine old firm ceased when they deleted the pinned barreled revolvers and then sealed it by changing the profile. Good Lord, what were they thinking!
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Old 03-24-2010, 02:28 AM
Racer X Racer X is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdV8 View Post
I have not seen the Ruger manual you are talking about (it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong though or haven't seen something). The P95 manuals posted online basically say that if it is loaded to factory/SAAMI/NATO specs it will be fine.

To clarify my earlier response, I believe S&W is being cautious with this warning. The 59 series has been proven to be reliable with any ammo fed to it. However, the ultimate answer is up to each person shooting. I am willing fire +P+ on occasion, but is not usually every session and not a lot of rounds. For full time range work I, personally wouldn't shoot only +P and +P+ rounds. I think I would stick with about 5% or less being a non-standard pressure. This is mainly to keep it runing longer, kind of like not running a car constantly just below its red line. Sure, it can take it, but it will reduce the mileage.
Ruger has a FAQ, and under P series pistols, it says

"Q:What type of ammunition should I use in my Ruger 9mm pistol?

A:The Ruger 9mm pistols are chambered for the 9x19mm NATO Parabellum (9mm Luger) cartridge, compatible with the U.S. and foreign military or commercial 9x19mm loads manufactured in accordance with NATO, U.S., SAAMI, or CIP standards, including high-velocity, subsonic, tracer, hollow point, ammunition loaded in aluminum, steel, or brass cartridge cases, +P and +P+ ammunition. "

With my 439, S&W just didn't want to tell me shoot +P or +P+ all you want. He said finding a reliable self defense +P round and keeping it loaded for defense with them was just fine.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:35 AM
jaysouth jaysouth is offline
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If you can afford enough +P+ ammo to induce measurable wear on you 59, you can afford to buy a trunk full of 59s at premium prices.

A non issue.
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