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06-10-2010, 08:53 PM
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Anyway to Switch Decocker w/ safety to Decokcer Only?
Anyway to switch a decocker/safety model like a 5906 to a decokcer only model? If so are new parts needed or do some just need to be removed? Is it cost prhobitve cheap mod or expensive job?
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06-10-2010, 09:50 PM
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Anything can be done, it just comes down to who's writing the check. But unless you have certian models of TSW series guns, it is cost prohibitive.
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06-10-2010, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Anything can be done, it just comes down to who's writing the check.
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And how big it is!
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06-11-2010, 12:13 AM
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I have heard that S&W will not do that job because it involves removing a safety already on the gun. But it won't hurt to ask them.
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06-11-2010, 12:28 PM
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You can buy the part from Midway and do it your self. To myself the worst part was removing the rear sight. The part only comes in silver.
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06-11-2010, 02:13 PM
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When the spring-loaded, decock-only option was first introduced it was made available mostly to LE customers. Existing 3rd gen slides had to be sent to the Performance Center to receive a couple of machining steps to accept the optional decocker assembly in place of the standard manual safety assembly. This also usually required that a new sear release lever be fitted since it indexes off the bottom of the manual safety/decocker body, and installing one new part often required installing the other part so decocking timing remained within the normal spec.
A few of us sent back some slides to have the machining work done and the new assemblies installed. The cost back then was about $105 per slide, which included the new part. As armorers we were able to check our own guns for proper decocking timing and replace any sear release levers as needed. I have no idea what the current cost might be for machining older 3rd gen slides.
The more recent production TSW models (and the 4040PD, oddly enough) have slides which are already machined to accept the optional spring-loaded, decock-only assembly. The machining can be seen under the front edge of the left-side lever when it's in the down position, as a recessed cut and a hole within the lowest part of the cut. (My original 4013/4513TSW's lacked this new machining, along with lacking the accessory rails & loaded chamber inspection ports in the barrel tabs.)
Installing the spring-loaded assembly in a slide already machined to accept it requires knowing how to detail strip and assemble the slide, as well as how to anchor the end of the spring wound around the new decocker body in the hole in the slide. It also requires knowing how to check for decocking timing and possibly fitting a new sear release lever. It's best left to someone who has the training and experience to do it.
The cost of the parts might reasonably seem to be considered prohibitive to some folks, especially if it involves an older 3rd gen slide which has to be machined by the factory.
Since the remaining 3rd gen production capability (LE/Gov customers) has been moved from the headquarters plant to the Houlton plant, and I don't know if the PC is still offering the modification, you'd have to call back and ask about the availability of the work for your 5906.
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06-11-2010, 02:17 PM
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Not sure what part you are looking at but you don't need to mess with the sight. The TSW models that can be switched over will have a small hole drilled at the rear of the vertical slot that is milled into the slide behind the the safety lever. When you lower the safety lever you should be able to see it. That is where the decocker return spring seats, and if the slide is not already milled for the decocker parts I don't believe S&W will do it.
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06-11-2010, 08:55 PM
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Oh yeah, they discovered one other thing about installing a decock-only assembly in the 9mm guns ...
The ambi lever in the 9mm guns had to be switched to the .45 ambi lever. The reason was because the .45 lever has added material on the back side of the lever in the way of a 'tab' which rests against the slide and prevents the assembly body from shifting too far to the left. (The 9/40 ambi levers are still different part numbers from the .45 ambi lever.)
Too much lateral (left) movement can result in some unwanted contact and interference between the firing pin and the decocker body when the firing pin moves forward to contact the primer.
I learned about this in my second armorer class, after I'd already installed a decock-only assembly in my 3913 (using the 9mm ambi lever). After learning of this change I checked my field-stripped 3913's slide and found I could gently push against the right end of the decock-only assembly (in which the ambi lever is pinned) and feel it shift a bit leftward. When I used a pin punch to push against the rear of the firing pin in my (EMPTY) 3913, checking for freedom of movement while holding the firing pin safety plunger depressed, I discovered I could feel some contact between the firing pin and the decock assembly. Not good.
While I never experienced a failure-to-fire with that early combination of decock-only assembly and standard 9mm ambi lever, I could see why S&W had changed their armorer manual and what they were teaching in the armorer class. When I called and ordered a .45 ambi lever I also found that not all of the customer service people were apparently aware of this requirement to use the ambi lever with the extra tab with the decock-only assembly ... and that the ambi lever cost about as much as the decocker body itself.
When I received and installed the .45 ambi lever with the tab I found the lateral movement in my 3913 decocker was gone.
Anyway, here's a couple images of the decock-only assembly, a slide which has received the machining necessary to accept this option and the required ambi lever with tab. The #1 arrow points to the end of the spring which fits inside the hole (from the inside of the slide) indicated by arrow #2. The TAB arrow points to the tab present on the ambi lever. The second image includes a pair of ambi levers, with the standard 9/40 lever on the left and the .45 lever on the right. You can see the difference in regard to the extra tab present on the back of the .45 lever.
You'll really have to call back and see if they're still offering this service, though, at either the main factory, the Performance Center or perhaps the Houlton plant (once the 3rd gen production capability transition has been completed). I haven't asked about it (other than parts) for some time.
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Last edited by Fastbolt; 06-11-2010 at 08:57 PM.
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06-12-2010, 09:46 AM
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Once again an outstanding reply from FastBolt (with photos!) to a good question. Thank you sir for the valuable knowledge you selfless share with all of us here on the S&W Forum. I always learn something new reading your posts. I really appreciate your contributions.
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06-12-2010, 11:20 AM
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I contacted S&W a year and a half ago about this conversion. At that time their price was $125.
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06-12-2010, 08:52 PM
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You're welcome.
I became interested and a bit familiar with it when it was a new feature, and tried it on a couple of my 3rd gen guns.
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09-15-2014, 06:52 PM
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I've had my 915 and 3914 done with the spring-loaded decocker assembly. Neat option to have.
Alas, they don't do it anymore. Today (9/15/2014), I had the pleasure to again speak with Jeff Whitehouse at S&W. Jeff tells me that the company's thrust right now is with the M&P line and that the option (even though I provided the part) is no longer offered.
I did speak to my gunsmith Karl Sokol who said he can most likely drill the hole and machine away the small step inside the safety aperature and fit the decocker lever. Just need to provide him with the 915's slide as an exemplar.
I plan to ask him to do my "915/06", 5906 and 6906 for the modification. I like the option of the spring-lever. Easy.
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09-15-2014, 07:06 PM
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As long as you have the safety parts, once you get it set up, it's easy to do.
I've done several of mine on a $50.00 HF drill press, a $15.00 HF drill press vice, an $8.00 1/8" end mill (cutter bit), and a $3.00 1/16" drill bit.
John
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09-15-2014, 07:27 PM
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I always liked the idea of the spring-loaded decock lever.
I wish all Smith 39/59/45 series had it from the factory.
I would think an LEO would like it. I can see why it was offered to agencies.
The last thing you want is to have to fumble with a slide-mounted safety if you need to shoot.
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09-16-2014, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtoppcop
I've had my 915 and 3914 done with the spring-loaded decocker assembly. Neat option to have.
Alas, they don't do it anymore. Today (9/15/2014), I had the pleasure to again speak with Jeff Whitehouse at S&W. Jeff tells me that the company's thrust right now is with the M&P line and that the option (even though I provided the part) is no longer offered.
I did speak to my gunsmith Karl Sokol who said he can most likely drill the hole and machine away the small step inside the safety aperature and fit the decocker lever. Just need to provide him with the 915's slide as an exemplar.
I plan to ask him to do my "915/06", 5906 and 6906 for the modification. I like the option of the spring-lever. Easy.
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I too own some TDA Gen-3s that I would like to have converted to "decocker only". The only "decocker only" S&W I have acquired is a surplus Kentucky State Police 4566TSW. For me, the spring loaded "decocker only" version of the TDAs is highly desirable for defensive use.
I am certain that many forum members would appreciate it if you would report back and let us know if Mr. Sokol is able to provide the conversion service to your satisfaction.
Thank you,
MB
Last edited by muzzleblast; 09-16-2014 at 02:47 AM.
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09-16-2014, 02:44 AM
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Kudos to FastBolt
Quote:
Originally Posted by DASA
Once again an outstanding reply from FastBolt (with photos!) to a good question. Thank you sir for the valuable knowledge you selfless share with all of us here on the S&W Forum. I always learn something new reading your posts. I really appreciate your contributions.
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Well said DASA. I wholeheartedly agree.
The "Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols" forum should have a "sub-forum" dedicated to FastBolt's armorer contributions.
MB
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09-16-2014, 02:49 AM
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Jeff Cooper wrote of the dangers of the safety/decocker being in the down (safe) position. He referred to the safety/decocker lever on any of the pistols, whether it be the Walther, the Beretta or the S&W as a "dingus." He thus coined the phrase, "don't get caught with your dingus down."
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09-17-2014, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzzleblast
Well said DASA. I wholeheartedly agree.
The "Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols" forum should have a "sub-forum" dedicated to FastBolt's armorer contributions.
MB
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While I appreciate the sentiment, I'd just as soon not see that happen.
That sort of thing might create too much of a radar profile, especially if I found myself in the position of maybe working for them someday. Thanks, though.
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01-11-2015, 09:26 PM
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All,
I was able to buy several of the spring-loaded decocker levers and ask the lovely Roz Sousa (CS Rep at S&W) if she can ask the artisan, "Vito" at the factory to perform the modification to the slide.
Since my last post above, I have done my spare 5906 slide, my 6906 and my 5906 (pictured).
I really like the option of the decock-only mode. If need be, one can simply replace the decocker lever with the traditional safety lever.
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01-11-2015, 09:49 PM
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It's cool to have the option.
I've done a bunch of mine.
How long does S&W take to do it and is the price reasonable?
Who reshaped your trigger guard?
They did a good job.
John
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01-11-2015, 09:58 PM
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John,
They take about 3-4 weeks. Not bad. They quoted $75, but charged me $49. Again, not bad.
Karl Sokol (Chestnut Mountain Sports in West Rutland, VT) is my "go-to" guy for all things 3rd Gen.
He's in the process of finishing up my custom 39-2 and my 659. The 659 will also be modified (by him via use of my 915 slide as an exemplar) to decock-only.
As you can see, he sculpted the rear grip tang, rounded the trigger guard, stippled the front strap as well as the underside of the trigger guard. He's an artist with the 3rd Gens.
My only thing left on this 5906 is a trip to "Titus" at Novaks. He will mount a 1911 dovetail front Triitium sight. His work is MAGNIFICENT! Better yet, the turn-around time is about 5 days!
-Greg
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01-11-2015, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtoppcop
John,
They take about 3-4 weeks. Not bad. They quoted $75, but charged me $49. Again, not bad.
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I agree. That's a great price. It's a quick job once you get it set up. I'm surprised they were able to squeeze you in, based on the chatter I've heard around here.
BTW Roz Sousa is a real asset to S&W and their customers.
Quote:
Karl Sokol (Chestnut Mountain Sports in West Rutland, VT) is my "go-to" guy for all things 3rd Gen.
He's in the process of finishing up my custom 39-2 and my 659. The 659 will also be modified (by him via use of my 915 slide as an exemplar) to decock-only.
As you can see, he sculpted the rear grip tang, rounded the trigger guard, stippled the front strap as well as the underside of the trigger guard. He's an artist with the 3rd Gens.
My only thing left on this 5906 is a trip to "Titus" at Novaks. He will mount a 1911 dovetail front Triitium sight. His work is MAGNIFICENT! Better yet, the turn-around time is about 5 days!
-Greg
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Looks like he did a fine job.
And when you get all the pieces back, if you haven't already tried it, that 915 slide would look real sleek on either the 659 or the 5906 and vice-versa!
John
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