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Old 07-13-2010, 12:42 PM
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Default California gun laws

I spoke with a Remington representative yesterday and was told their new 1911 wasn't going to be available in California. Apparently there is a new California law that requires all semi-autos to have a magazine drop safety (i.e., the gun can not fire without a magazine). He also said that several manufacturers has declined sales to California law enforcement because of this new rule. Is S&W joining the "boycott"?

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Old 07-13-2010, 12:47 PM
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As with any business, the idea is to make money. If they can make good money by selling in California, then they will do that. I would like to see them boycott but doubt they will.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:03 PM
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Kalifornia sucks. Their draconian laws many times set the tone for the country.

However, it is the safest state to live......
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by watzittoya View Post
Kalifornia sucks. Their draconian laws many times set the tone for the country.

However, it is the safest state to live......
You're joking, right...about the "safest state" part? You can say a lot of things about CA but certain areas wouldn't meet any reasonable criteria for safe.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:12 PM
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watzittoya, where did you get your data that CA is the safest state to live in? We do have some of the safest cities in the country, but I don't recall the State being in the number 1 safe position. In fact, a lot of other States have shall carry laws and have had major reductions in violent crime. Some of them were very low in the crime department to start with. I'd be interested in a link to the info upon which you base your statement.

You are right on about CA's gun laws. As I recall, all the semi autos that were legal in the State before the new law are grandfathered in as being OK whether they have a mag cutoff or not.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:34 PM
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Personally, I have no problem with magazine drop safeties. Every S&W 3rd generation auto I own has this feature. I do have a problem with States acting as big brother and mandating a safety feature that may not make sense for everyone or every gun. Perhaps I need to be educated on the issue, but I'm not aware of a surge in gun accidents that would have been avoided if only there had been a magazine drop safety. I've heard some police officers like them, so they can drop the mag, and disable the gun, if there is a struggle with an assailant trying to take the weapon, but I'm sure there are other officers that don't like them. I say fine. Let everyone make there own decision. But when the State mandates only one permissible option, the freedom to choose is lost.

I guess this really isn't a new California requirement. Older models are grandfathered. I lifted this from another forum...

"In 2007, California law took effect requiring new centerfire handguns must have both (1) magazine disconnect safety and (2) live round chamber indicator. It is probably too expensive for manufacturers to make special CA handgun line with all requirements. According to Guns & Ammo, April, 2010 only 9 new models were CA approved in 2007-2009. Previously, 72 new models were CA approved per year."

Last edited by tocohillsguy; 07-13-2010 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfSwiss View Post
watzittoya, where did you get your data that CA is the safest state to live in? We do have some of the safest cities in the country, but I don't recall the State being in the number 1 safe position. In fact, a lot of other States have shall carry laws and have had major reductions in violent crime. Some of them were very low in the crime department to start with. I'd be interested in a link to the info upon which you base your statement.

You are right on about CA's gun laws. As I recall, all the semi autos that were legal in the State before the new law are grandfathered in as being OK whether they have a mag cutoff or not.
I guess my attempt at satire is lost to you.
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:30 PM
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I have never heard of a 1911 platform that had a mag disconnect, in fact other than the Browning Hi-Power and S&W pistols I don't know of any others that have them. Does that mean no new pistols can be sold in CA?
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:30 PM
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Default Drop test

California requires a very expensive drop test of pistols to be sure they don't discharge if dropped.
They also have to have a loaded chamber indicator.
Single action revolvers are exempt.
Since I have purchased several pistols since the tests were started without the magazine disconnect, I don't think that feature is a requirement.
There are plenty of pistols on the approved list at the DOJ website.

Every big manufacturer of 1911 pistols has pistols for sale in Ca.

Bruce
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:31 PM
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Speaking of boycotts, when the thugs in the Ca legislature were writing their "assault" weapons ban, the Ruger Mini-14 was on it. It was also used by the members of the prison guards union to lean on while they slept on the taxpayers dime. Ruger told them if it was banned for Ca. subjects then they (Ruger) would not sell them to the state and they could buy Colts for three times the price or some such. The Mini-14 was taken off of the list. I have no desire for semi-auto rifles other than the Garand and M-1 carbine, but I bought a Mini-14 just for fun. I still have it.

I think the best guess for compliance with the "assualt" weapons ban was about 10%. I know of at least one county where it is ignored by the sheriff.
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Lee M View Post
California requires a very expensive drop test of pistols to be sure they don't discharge if dropped.
They also have to have a loaded chamber indicator.
Single action revolvers are exempt.
Since I have purchased several pistols since the tests were started without the magazine disconnect, I don't think that feature is a requirement.
There are plenty of pistols on the approved list at the DOJ website.

Every big manufacturer of 1911 pistols has pistols for sale in Ca.

Bruce
All of the 1911's that are on the list were approved prior to the mag safety requirement. S&W has listed some models but not others, The M&P 9 is on there, but the 9L and 9 Pro are not. Since the mag safety is quite easy to add to those models, I guess S&W figured the number of sales of the long slide versions did not warrant the fees involved in getting on the list. In a big middle finger to the state, I have removed every one of the mag safeties on all the handguns I have that had them. It is a 95 cent part on the M&P series guns, and takes about 20 minutes to remove. I suspect that some manufacturers are now holding off on listing new models pending the outcome of a suit filed that was on hold pending Mc Donald.
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:42 PM
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Having started this thread I will now chime in with my new found knowledge. My understanding is that when the current California law was first enacted NEW gun models not already on the approved California list (i.e., having passed the drop test) had to have either a magazine disconnect OR a loaded chamber indicator. Beginning sometime in or around 2007, NEW gun models that were not on the list as of 2007 (i.e, guns that passed the drop test and had one of the two additional safety features) had to have both of new safety features to get on the list. If the model is already on the approved list, it is exempt from these enhanced standards. So, if a 1911 model is on the approved list before 2007, then it is okay, but what is happening is that fewer and fewer new gun models are being introduced into California.
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:00 AM
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how tough is it to put that little notch window in the back of the barrel where the rim of the cartridge is?
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:19 AM
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how tough is it to put that little notch window in the back of the barrel where the rim of the cartridge is?
Not too hard, but if you want to get a new gun model listed in California the gun must also have a firing pin safety (to pass the drop test) AND a magazine drop safety. I'm not aware of any 1911 platform guns that have a magazine drop safety, so no none of the new 1911 models are being introduced into California.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:35 PM
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I live in California and whether you think a drop safety is right/wrong/safe/not or indifferent.... the real reason California has this drop safety law is...the more mandated laws requiring specific modifications to firearms, the more firearm manufactures will not sell to California. It's a very covert way for our Politicians to say...*we don't like our citizens to have firearms*. It's a gun grab, that's it in a nutshell. More regulation the more hoops gun manufactures have to jump through. For the person that said California is a safe state....where in the world did you hear that?
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:25 PM
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I guess my attempt at satire is lost to you.
Yep, when it comes to CA gun laws and it's incompetent legislature, I don't have a sense of humor .

The reality is that the CA legislature doesn't give a darn about rational gun laws or public safety. They simply look for any excuse whatsoever to further restrict guns and those of us who are law abiding .

Maybe things will change in November or at least start moving in the right direction.
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Old 07-15-2010, 01:37 AM
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Unless a fundamental shift in the make up of the CA legislature somehow magically takes place... given the political party demongraphics in this state, I'm not holding my breath for any improvement to happen in the near future.

They've also become smarter in their tactics and have also started concentrating their attentions away from the gun and onto things like ammo, not protected by the 2nd Amendment. "Sure... have your guns, but we'll turn them into paper weights by restricting the **** out of ammo sales, gun stores, shooting ranges, safety requirements, etc, etc, etc.

Ever look at a Sportsman Guide catalog, with all of the footnotes on shipping restrictions on items? Seems like 80% of firearm's related items carries a "can not ship to CA" footnote.

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Old 07-17-2010, 04:53 PM
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Default Sorry California 1911 R1

Quote:
Originally Posted by tocohillsguy View Post
I spoke with a Remington representative yesterday and was told their new 1911 wasn't going to be available in California. Apparently there is a new California law that requires all semi-autos to have a magazine drop safety (i.e., the gun can not fire without a magazine). He also said that several manufacturers has declined sales to California law enforcement because of this new rule. Is S&W joining the "boycott"?
Ahhh...nothing like that NEW Pistol smell. Its great to live in a state were you can pick up a brand NIB 1911 model R1 that was mostly made in the USA (Ilon, New York) with an american name on it for about the price of an offshore clone. If your looking for basic GI 1911 that will toss JHP or hardball 45 ammo + 1 to Remington Arms Co. USA
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Last edited by 40cal; 07-17-2010 at 08:04 PM.
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