952 vs PPC9 Is there a clear cut accuracy winner

[SW CQB 45]

I have never held either, but if I had to guess

they are basically the same gun, except for sights and frame allowing for single and double stack mags.

Yes there are going to be other differences, but the action should be the same, same barrels, same fitted slide to frames.

so accuracy should be the same.

I was told by a SW CS that the PPC9 has more hand fitting than the 952.

correct me if I am wrong...
both are made by the PC
both are hand fitted
both have the same barrels
both have the same actions

for those who have both and have shot them, is one more accurate than the other.

This may be difficult to answer due to the PPC's sight, however I will take a stab at it.

At 25 yds, 15 yds, which holds a tighter group?

I bet they are the same, its just the grip and sight differences.

Of course the price of the 952 will exceed the LEO price of the PPC (another guess)

thanks in advance

[SW CQB 45]

I have never held either, but if I had to guess

they are basically the same gun, except for sights and frame allowing for single and double stack mags.

Yes there are going to be other differences, but the action should be the same, same barrels, same fitted slide to frames.

so accuracy should be the same.

I was told by a SW CS that the PPC9 has more hand fitting than the 952.

correct me if I am wrong...
both are made by the PC
both are hand fitted
both have the same barrels
both have the same actions

for those who have both and have shot them, is one more accurate than the other.

This may be difficult to answer due to the PPC's sight, however I will take a stab at it.

At 25 yds, 15 yds, which holds a tighter group?

I bet they are the same, its just the grip and sight differences.

Of course the price of the 952 will exceed the LEO price of the PPC (another guess)

thanks in advance

[Jim Watson]

Will you take a second hand (but eyewitness) report as a single data point?

Friend of mine is a Governor's 20 PPC shooter. He was in the market for a S&W automatic, largely because he could not get (would not pay for) the combination of accuracy and reliability he wanted out of a 1911 pattern gun. He was able to borrow a sample of each, M952-1 and PPC-9 for several weeks trial.

In his hands, with the several brands of ammo shot, the PPC-9 was noticeably more accurate than the M952. Also the 952 did not have enough range of sight adjustment for a neck hold.
Which he considered a pity, he really preferred the single stack grip of the 952.

[WaterburyBob]

I was under the impression that the PPC guns use the same double-stack 5906 mags; they are just blocked to 10 rounds like those during the AWB. So you can use 15-round 5906 mags in them. I recall threads where members who bought PPC guns recalled their "arguing" with S&W about this - wanting 15-round mags sent instead of 10-rounders.

[SW CQB 45]

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
Will you take a second hand (but eyewitness) report as a single data point?

Friend of mine is a Governor's 20 PPC shooter. He was in the market for a S&W automatic, largely because he could not get (would not pay for) the combination of accuracy and reliability he wanted out of a 1911 pattern gun. He was able to borrow a sample of each, M952-1 and PPC-9 for several weeks trial.

In his hands, with the several brands of ammo shot, the PPC-9 was noticeably more accurate than the M952. Also the 952 did not have enough range of sight adjustment for a neck hold.
Which he considered a pity, he really preferred the single stack grip of the 952.

Jim, thanks for the info.

I wonder if the sights make it not a fair challenge.

definitely when it comes to distance (50yds) shots.

I really believe they are the same, just dbl and single stack with different sights.

I bet a 952 with aristocrat sight set up would be just as accurate.

this style of shooting requires 6 round stages, so mag capacity is a non issue,

however I bet single stack 952 mags are outragiously priced...

more opinions appreciated.

[lah1940]

FWIW I have both and I find the PPC9 to be more accurate. S&W also includes a test target for the PPC9 pistols not so for the 952.

[SW CQB 45]

lah, thats what I am looking for.

do you have the 5" or 6" or both?

if so, which do you prefer?

[lah1940]

I have 2 and both are 5". I did have S&W send me new front sights that are not as wide as the one that comes installed from the factory. I like more daylight on the sides of my front sight than the factory setup provided. The PPC 9 is less expensive than the 952. I think I paid $1125.00 each back in 2004. Only catch is you have to be LEO or know one that will place the order for you which is what I did.

[SW CQB 45]

LAH, thanks for the info.

what is the front sight width on a standard PPC?

and what do you have on their now (width)?

also the rear notch, .90", .100" or .110"?

thanks in advance

[lah1940]

Rear width is .110. My pistols came with .125 width front sights and I changed them out to .110 width that S&W sent to me free of charge. I just called the performance center and spoke to Tom Gordon, however I don't believe that Tom is still there.

[SW CQB 45]

thanks again LAH

.125" front...could you see any light with the .110" rear?

I am assuming you have a sight tool?

[lah1940]

Very little. It would be better with a 6" barrel. Sight tool? Yes, a padded vise, a brass punch and a small ball peen hammer. I actually did a better job than the factory did. Just go slow and be very careful. Oh, I also took a small amount of metal off of the bottom of the new front sight and liberally lubricated the sight and dovetail.

[SW CQB 45]

OK, good deal.

I guess I need to invest in a heavy vise.

what pad inserts do you use?

thanks in advance

[lah1940]

2 soft wood blocks that I cut out to fit the slide. Works very well.

[Ultima-Ratio]

Convince me!

Having only owned and fired two examples of the old blued 952s that equaled and even surpassed T/Cs and S&W 41s, it's hard to imagine a more accurate handgun.

Minute of angle was easy, will the newer six inch give half minute? What ammo?

[fire952]

Very little. It would be better with a 6" barrel. Sight tool? Yes, a padded vise, a brass punch and a small ball peen hammer. I actually did a better job than the factory did. Just go slow and be very careful. Oh, I also took a small amount of metal off of the bottom of the new front sight and liberally lubricated the sight and dovetail.

__

Hello, the mine of 5" when firing dryfire, the hammer falls fully but after bouncing back to half cock. I don't have a problem when shooting, but because this happens?
Thank you very much advance

[Karl in NY]

I was under the impression that the PPC guns use the same double-stack 5906 mags; they are just blocked to 10 rounds like those during the AWB. So you can use 15-round 5906 mags in them. I recall threads where members who bought PPC guns recalled their "arguing" with S&W about this - wanting 15-round mags sent instead of 10-rounders.

Both my PPC9s shipped with 15-round magazines, LEO marked (before the sunset of the AW ban). Which technically means I have to dispose of the magazines before I retire next year, in order to remain NY legal. BTW, the 5906 magazines are the correct ones for the PPC9, and they are cheap and plentiful on the used market, unlike the 952/639 magazines.

[Exiledviking]

According to Mas Ayoob, the PPC9 is the most accurate, guaranteed to shoot 1" at 25 yards from the factory. He also stated that the PC5906 aka DPA5906 is the next most accurate and then followed in 3rd place by the 952.

IF I could just get a hold of a PPC9 I would have the trifecta...

[Grinder]

ss,
I have a used 5" on the way, bought new this year, and the pics look like the configuration of lah1940's. It came with 3 - 10 rd.mags and S&W is no longer supplying test targets, according to the previous owner

[mososodbob]

My apologies if this is off topic.

I came into possession 3 magazines which is now clearly identified as magazines for M39s. Are these interchangeable with the 952s?

I shoot a Model 52-2 for Bulluseye and can't use them. Please see previous posting for more info.

Can I use my 52 if the iron is put back on for PPC? Like to use what I have for more than one "game".

http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/for...4&m=1021039623

Bob

[first325]

I got both the 5 and 6 earlier this year, both are as the pictures show, the 6 shoots the best, the 5 and my new 5906DPA shoot about the same, could be sight radius, as I hav'nt ransom rested any of them

[Karl in NY]

Originally posted by ss:
Is the one that Karl in NY has the 6" model?

Does S&W build all PPC9s without the dreaded front cocking serrations?

My posted photos are of the 6" barrel version, generally called the "PPC9 Longslide".

I have never seen a PPC9 with forward slide serrations, hope to never see one...

These are very low-volume production guns, never even cataloged, never advertised, with sales limited to LEOs.

That said, though, the PPC9 is esentially the same gun as the 9mm "Target Champion" for European export sales, but with totally different sights, and generally a different slide contour, but still 5906-based and with the Briley bushing.

There was talk that the original PPC9/Target Champion concept came from Wischo, the European S&W importer, and that Wischo demanded that the design be exclusive with them, with USA LEO exceptions only. This may be just urban legend stuff, though.

If you have a badge, the PPC9 is one hell of a bargain.

[Grinder]

Originally posted by first325:
I got both the 5 and 6 earlier this year, both are as the pictures show, the 6 shoots the best, the 5 and my new 5906DPA shoot about the same, could be sight radius, as I hav'nt ransom rested any of them

first325,
Were test targets included?

[first325]

There were no test targets, ten rounders with the 6" and 15's with the 5", two mags with each gun

[SW CQB 45]

Howdy Yall!

QUESTION?

I have no time behind a 9mm 1911 that will be set up for PPC.

is there a specific load for PPC in 9mm?

my gun will be a 5" with a Nowlin barrel.

thanks in advance

[first325]

What bullet weight? I use ww 231 and montana gold 124gr for indoor and outdoor at 7, 15, and 25 yards, and xtp at 50, find a load heavy enough to cycle reliably, a new gun will sometimes will take a pretty stiff load at first

[SW CQB 45]

Originally posted by first325:
What bullet weight? I use ww 231 and montana gold 124gr for indoor and outdoor at 7, 15, and 25 yards, and xtp at 50, find a load heavy enough to cycle reliably, a new gun will sometimes will take a pretty stiff load at first

first325,
I have no time behind a 9mm in a match gun. I agree that I will have to shoot some ball ammo to get everything working at first.

can you give me your recipe with 231 which is my favorite power. I have bottle of other stuff that I got when my dad died but I keep buying 231 as it works for me in 45acp, 35sp and now 9mm.

I plan to buy Dillon dies for my 550 and since some of the matches that I will attend require new factory ammo, I will use Precision Delta for those times. I just need to find what everyone uses and then fine tune after that.

thanks in advance

[firewire01]

Originally Posted by SW CQB 45

first325,
I have no time behind a 9mm in a match gun. I agree that I will have to shoot some ball ammo to get everything working at first.

can you give me your recipe with 231 which is my favorite power. I have bottle of other stuff that I got when my dad died but I keep buying 231 as it works for me in 45acp, 35sp and now 9mm.

I plan to buy Dillon dies for my 550 and since some of the matches that I will attend require new factory ammo, I will use Precision Delta for those times. I just need to find what everyone uses and then fine tune after that.

thanks in advance

I would suggest 147 lead round nose with 3.5 of Bullseye. Mine are loaded on a 550 but have added a Lee factory crimp die. Have tested slightly better than jacketed factory 115, 124 and 147.