Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-31-2010, 06:30 PM
xzhync xzhync is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Default Can Bodyguard 380 take "+P"?

All,

At the risk of getting yelled at, I am going to ask the question...Has anyone heard if S&W has a stance on using +p in the Bodyguard 380? I just traded my LCP for the BG and would like to know. Over on the LCP forum they get very testy when someone asks about +p. Ruger has stated that the LCP is not suitable for +p. I also know that there really isn't a SAAMI spec for 380 +p, but I am referring to such ammo as Buffalo Bore (self proclaimed +p) and other "hotter" loads like Doubletap, etc. I would like to get the most out of the BG 380, but also don't want any problems. Hopefully, Wolff will come out with beef'd up recoil springs soon, which would probably help with +p loads. Any thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-01-2010, 01:30 AM
Goffman Goffman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

I'm looking at the manual for the BG 380 right now. It implies that using +P ammunition is not a good idea, but it doesn't say that it is absolutely prohibited. I've handled a few polymer frame 380s in the past few weeks, and the BG 380 is the beefiest of the bunch. If there is a polymer 380 that can handle +P, it's this one.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-01-2010, 04:48 AM
SMMAssociates's Avatar
SMMAssociates SMMAssociates is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Liked 54 Times in 43 Posts
Smile

xzhync:

(OK, how do you pronounce that? )

Unless you see a specific prohibition, it's probably safe to assume that a given modern firearm will handle +P, at least well enough to put a few practice rounds through it, and "in extremis" should you actually need it.

I would NOT plan on putting more than a couple magazines worth through the gun initially, nor doing more than just burning off the carry ammunition each year.

There are some out there where it's just not safe, of course. Either the manufacturer says not to do it, or it's just kinda old. My old PPK/S will handle about anything, but I'd be afraid to put +P in my P3AT. I prefer to avoid the +P in the Walther even so - it's a circa 1968 gun....

Philosophically, other than better penetration of hollow points against winter clothing, I'm not sure it really matters.... But that's just me....

Regards,
__________________
Stu.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 08-01-2010, 05:52 AM
tpd223 tpd223 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times in 9 Posts
Default

You can't make a .380 into a 9mm no matter how hard you try.

Just sayin.


While I understand the sentiment, and have been in your same position before, I have also learned over the years that reliability trumps FPS every time.
Often (more so than not IMHO) with smaller guns the hotter ammo abuses the gun and/or effects reliability rather badly.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 08-01-2010, 09:16 AM
Loco Weed Loco Weed is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 277
Likes: 3
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

I've never seen .380 +P... who makes it?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:48 AM
conchmariner conchmariner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco Weed View Post
I've never seen .380 +P... who makes it?
IIRC there's no SAAMI designation for +P .380 ammo, so the technically correct answer is no one makes. However in the vernacular I guess people consider stuff like Buffalo Bore .380 to be +P. Some of the gun makers that make small .380 guns advise against using Buffalo Bore, although I've never seen that prohibition specifically in an owners manual.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-01-2010, 06:53 PM
xzhync xzhync is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMMAssociates View Post
xzhync:

(OK, how do you pronounce that? )

Unless you see a specific prohibition, it's probably safe to assume that a given modern firearm will handle +P, at least well enough to put a few practice rounds through it, and "in extremis" should you actually need it.

I would NOT plan on putting more than a couple magazines worth through the gun initially, nor doing more than just burning off the carry ammunition each year.

There are some out there where it's just not safe, of course. Either the manufacturer says not to do it, or it's just kinda old. My old PPK/S will handle about anything, but I'd be afraid to put +P in my P3AT. I prefer to avoid the +P in the Walther even so - it's a circa 1968 gun....

Philosophically, other than better penetration of hollow points against winter clothing, I'm not sure it really matters.... But that's just me....

Regards,
Thanks. Ya, I know my user name is strange. It is an old logon id from a previous job. I just use it because I am sure no one else has. Anyway, I haven't tried any Buffalo Bore yet, but I did try a few rounds of Doubletap ammo. I don't believe it is as hot as the BB, but a little hotter than, say, Speer Gold Dots, etc. I really didn't notice more recoil. Not sure I will try the BB, but I am gathering that, in very, very limited usage, it probably would be ok. I am just working off of the approach that greater fps equates to greater eneryand greater penetration and (hopefully) greater expansion. I also realize that hotter rounds cause greater recoil and slow down subsequent shots, so ther is a trade off. I believe Mag318 said he will be using CorBon in his BG 380. I may try some, since they are within SAAMI spec, but probably on the hot end of the spectrum.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-09-2015, 10:38 PM
JohnnyREB_ JohnnyREB_ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Georgia
Posts: 16
Likes: 5
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default

My M&P Instruction manual says "+P ammo generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety. Use of "Plus-P"ammunition may result in the need for more frequent service."
Their stand on +P+ says "Must not be used"

You can interpret those for what they are. I say they are just not endorsing +P use because of legality and wear and tear on their "Lifetime" warranty products, but it can shoot +P rounds.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-29-2015, 03:29 PM
Driverjoe Driverjoe is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Last week I tried the buffalo +p ammo in my wife's bodyguard and personally I would suggest not doing it. It kicks hard and with such a small grip it did hurt some. I fired 5 rounds and stopped. Can't imagine this being safe in the long run.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-29-2015, 04:41 PM
Old cop Old cop is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,150
Likes: 523
Liked 4,580 Times in 1,548 Posts
Default

I'm using the HPR 90 grain hollow point in my BG b/c it feeds reliably, shoots to point of aim and has greater penetration than other hollow point ammo. As to the +P stuff in this caliber, not for me since there is no SAMMI standard. These little guns are a last ditch, easy to carry option for folks who do not normally go in harm's way so I chose to avoid extra hot rounds that may or may not have the desired effect.
__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-29-2015, 04:46 PM
12string's Avatar
12string 12string is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 143
Likes: 11
Liked 93 Times in 40 Posts
Default

Used Buffalo Bore in my wife's Sig p238. It is snappy that's for sure, she could handle it but not for target practice. She uses FMJ standard pressure for the range, Buffalo Bore for self defense.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-01-2015, 11:06 AM
db4570 db4570 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Default

Since it looked like S&W doesn't have a real problem with it, I was going to try the Underwood +p stuff.

What's cool is that they offer it loaded with the Hornady XTP, Gold Dot (chronically out of stock) and Golden Sabre (don't like personally).

David
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-01-2015, 11:30 AM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 6,348
Likes: 1,089
Liked 2,159 Times in 1,072 Posts
Default

There is NO SAAMI STANDARD for +P in .380.
S&W specifically states the warranty is only good for SAAMI standard ammunition.
So what is being asked, and talked around, "If I use .380 ammunition that is over SAAMI pressure standards, 1. Will it blow up the gun? and 2. Will the warranty still be good?"

1. What is the pressure? Chances are, the currently sold "+P" is about the same as a .380 Proof Load, so probably "No." Certainly continued shooting of proof loads carries risk.
2. It shouldn't, but a dishonest person might lie about the ammunition and get something.

I have tested .380 handloads in a SIG right up to max as listed in an old Hornady manual, to the point cases had obvious damage including loose primer pockets and case splits. The gain in speed over a few tenths less powder (that did not damage cases) was not worth it.
Ballistically, it was still a 9mm Short, not a 9mm Luger.

It is not the first time I've seen max loads that gained little by going over the limit.
__________________
Science plus Art
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-01-2015, 11:42 AM
brentb636's Avatar
brentb636 brentb636 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Holland, Mi
Posts: 193
Likes: 166
Liked 178 Times in 94 Posts
Default

I have had a number of 380's and wouldn't put hi pressure in any of them. The current guns aren't made for it. My all steel Makarov pistol ( basically a .380, but a 9x18 ) is another story. +P Hornady XTP hollow points shoot well in these milsurps, developing Muzzle energy over 300 ft-lbs , which is definitely 9mm Luger class. That, however, is a different subject. The point is that older all steel 380's can probably handle high pressure just fine, while the little shirt pocket 380's would not be a good choice.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-01-2015, 11:51 AM
colt_saa's Avatar
colt_saa colt_saa is offline
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 5,080
Likes: 184
Liked 5,330 Times in 1,785 Posts
Default

No it can not
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-01-2015, 01:32 PM
cmj8591's Avatar
cmj8591 cmj8591 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 510
Likes: 56
Liked 352 Times in 159 Posts
Default

The manual says use only ammunition that is in "strict accordance" with SAAMI specifications. Pretty simple. If there is no SAAMI specification for +P 380's or you are using ammo that is not approved, you are on your own if something goes wrong. If your that in need of higher velocity or more stopping power, don't carry a 380! If you need a hammer, don't use a screw driver!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-01-2015, 02:16 PM
Florida J Frame Florida J Frame is offline
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 909
Likes: 233
Liked 638 Times in 280 Posts
Default

With all the good .380 XTP rounds out there why bother? They are so close in performance to a short barreled 9mm they get the job down without beating up your gun. Check out the Freedom munitions new .380 XTP. It runs over 1000fps and sells for $15 per box of 50 on sale. Just my opinion but it runs great out of my G42.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 12-06-2015, 12:32 AM
db4570 db4570 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Default

The manual says a couple somewhat contradictory things:

" “Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety. Use of “Plus-P” ammunition may result in the need for more frequent service."

Which means to me they don't really recommend it, but don't prohibit it, either. Like a car manufacturer is not going to recommend you drive over the speed limit.

But then they mention the SAAMI thing that cmj8591 brings up:

"Use only commercially manufactured ammunition with internal ballistic pressures which are in strict accordance with the specifications of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute (SAAMI). If you are uncertain, contact your ammunition supplier for verification."

I have always heard that there is no SAAMI spec for 380+p and assume that's correct. So this seems like a prohibition.

A little confusing, but still tempting. What's the worst that could happen...?

David
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-02-2016, 02:38 PM
DonD DonD is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central TX
Posts: 1,421
Likes: 71
Liked 297 Times in 164 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driverjoe View Post
Last week I tried the buffalo +p ammo in my wife's bodyguard and personally I would suggest not doing it. It kicks hard and with such a small grip it did hurt some. I fired 5 rounds and stopped. Can't imagine this being safe in the long run.
I don't have a Bodyguard right now but have an itch for one. My CCW guns are a Ruger SR9C 9mm with +P (authorized) and a Ruger SP101 .357 with some hot Buffalo Bore 158gr JHP (VERY stout).

Having said that, the Buffalo Bore 380 +P (yes I know about SAAMI) seems too hot in my opinion. It runs at least 100fps beyond anything I've seen from any of the major manufacturers (Rem, Winchester, Speer etc) produce.

If I get one, I won't run BB in it. Don
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-12-2016, 01:01 PM
JohnnyREB_ JohnnyREB_ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Georgia
Posts: 16
Likes: 5
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default +P or not +P that is the question

I have shot +P and standard ammo of course in both my Sig 938 (9mm)and BG 380. As far as kick goes the +P is not a choice of mine, the extra does not warrant the pain in my hand for me at least in my opinion.
As far as daily carry guns, I switched to my BG 380 as my daily carry and I forget I'm carrying it except for the reminder of the dual magazine pinching me on the other side. Total of 21 good reasons a BG 380 is effective, if I cant stop em' in 7 shots I don't need to be carrying my gun for what it's intended for DEFENSE.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-12-2016, 01:36 PM
W.E.G.'s Avatar
W.E.G. W.E.G. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 10
Liked 659 Times in 322 Posts
Default

When you start running some type of ammo that is significantly hotter than ALL OTHER AMMO in a bitty semi-auto pocket pistol, you should expect problems.

You don't need a warning from the builder to figure that out.

I carry Hornady "Critical Defense" ammo in my BG380.
It works fine.
.
.
.
__________________
WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

Last edited by W.E.G.; 02-12-2016 at 01:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-14-2016, 12:54 AM
db4570 db4570 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Default

Quote:
When you start running some type of ammo that is significantly hotter than ALL OTHER AMMO in a bitty semi-auto pocket pistol, you should expect problems.
Why? Because that's your (probably uninformed) opinion?

Quote:
You don't need a warning from the builder to figure that out.
But a warning from some know-it-all on a forum should be taken as gospel? In fact, S&W doesn't conclusively warn against +P in the BG380.

Quote:
I carry Hornady "Critical Defense" ammo in my BG380.
It works fine.
So? What?

It works fine at what? Exiting the end of the barrel? Congratulations on you liking your pet round. Let me guess. You've never used it in a defensive situation, so actually know absolutely nothing about how it "works". In fact, your choice of ammo suffers from some serious performance flaws in some very critical tests and reviews.

People are interested in learning about options, and your post contributes nothing.

David
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-14-2016, 01:19 AM
arjay's Avatar
arjay arjay is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,213
Likes: 31,328
Liked 9,617 Times in 3,762 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by db4570 View Post
Why? Because that's your (probably uninformed) opinion?







But a warning from some know-it-all on a forum should be taken as gospel? In fact, S&W doesn't conclusively warn against +P in the BG380.







So? What?



It works fine at what? Exiting the end of the barrel? Congratulations on you liking your pet round. Let me guess. You've never used it in a defensive situation, so actually know absolutely nothing about how it "works". In fact, your choice of ammo suffers from some serious performance flaws in some very critical tests and reviews.



People are interested in learning about options, and your post contributes nothing.



David

Go for it,let us know if it breaks down early lol
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Tags
380, bodyguard, polymer, ppk, ruger, walther

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SOLD (2) "NEW" SMITH & WESSON BODYGUARD 380 MAGAZINES wdy Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 2 01-17-2011 02:44 AM
"NEW" SMITH & WESSON BODYGUARD 380 MAGAZINES (2) slo2171 Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 1 01-16-2011 01:54 PM
new "bodyguard" feed back??? mike56 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 26 12-22-2010 08:57 AM
"new" grips for my 649-nodash Bodyguard northslope S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 2 08-10-2010 12:05 PM
Bodyguard J Frame "Plug" removal? evanrn1983 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 3 03-09-2010 08:53 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:28 AM.


© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)