All,

At the risk of getting yelled at, I am going to ask the question...Has anyone heard if S&W has a stance on using +p in the Bodyguard 380? I just traded my LCP for the BG and would like to know. Over on the LCP forum they get very testy when someone asks about +p. Ruger has stated that the LCP is not suitable for +p. I also know that there really isn't a SAAMI spec for 380 +p, but I am referring to such ammo as Buffalo Bore (self proclaimed +p) and other "hotter" loads like Doubletap, etc. I would like to get the most out of the BG 380, but also don't want any problems. Hopefully, Wolff will come out with beef'd up recoil springs soon, which would probably help with +p loads. Any thoughts?

I'm looking at the manual for the BG 380 right now. It implies that using +P ammunition is not a good idea, but it doesn't say that it is absolutely prohibited. I've handled a few polymer frame 380s in the past few weeks, and the BG 380 is the beefiest of the bunch. If there is a polymer 380 that can handle +P, it's this one.

xzhync:

(OK, how do you pronounce that? )

Unless you see a specific prohibition, it's probably safe to assume that a given modern firearm will handle +P, at least well enough to put a few practice rounds through it, and "in extremis" should you actually need it.

I would NOT plan on putting more than a couple magazines worth through the gun initially, nor doing more than just burning off the carry ammunition each year.

There are some out there where it's just not safe, of course. Either the manufacturer says not to do it, or it's just kinda old. My old PPK/S will handle about anything, but I'd be afraid to put +P in my P3AT. I prefer to avoid the +P in the Walther even so - it's a circa 1968 gun....

Philosophically, other than better penetration of hollow points against winter clothing, I'm not sure it really matters.... But that's just me....

Regards,

__________________
Stu.

You can't make a .380 into a 9mm no matter how hard you try.

Just sayin.


While I understand the sentiment, and have been in your same position before, I have also learned over the years that reliability trumps FPS every time.
Often (more so than not IMHO) with smaller guns the hotter ammo abuses the gun and/or effects reliability rather badly.

I've never seen .380 +P... who makes it?

IIRC there's no SAAMI designation for +P .380 ammo, so the technically correct answer is no one makes. However in the vernacular I guess people consider stuff like Buffalo Bore .380 to be +P. Some of the gun makers that make small .380 guns advise against using Buffalo Bore, although I've never seen that prohibition specifically in an owners manual.

Thanks. Ya, I know my user name is strange. It is an old logon id from a previous job. I just use it because I am sure no one else has. Anyway, I haven't tried any Buffalo Bore yet, but I did try a few rounds of Doubletap ammo. I don't believe it is as hot as the BB, but a little hotter than, say, Speer Gold Dots, etc. I really didn't notice more recoil. Not sure I will try the BB, but I am gathering that, in very, very limited usage, it probably would be ok. I am just working off of the approach that greater fps equates to greater eneryand greater penetration and (hopefully) greater expansion. I also realize that hotter rounds cause greater recoil and slow down subsequent shots, so ther is a trade off. I believe Mag318 said he will be using CorBon in his BG 380. I may try some, since they are within SAAMI spec, but probably on the hot end of the spectrum.

My M&P Instruction manual says "+P ammo generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety. Use of "Plus-P"ammunition may result in the need for more frequent service."
Their stand on +P+ says "Must not be used"

You can interpret those for what they are. I say they are just not endorsing +P use because of legality and wear and tear on their "Lifetime" warranty products, but it can shoot +P rounds.

Last week I tried the buffalo +p ammo in my wife's bodyguard and personally I would suggest not doing it. It kicks hard and with such a small grip it did hurt some. I fired 5 rounds and stopped. Can't imagine this being safe in the long run.

I'm using the HPR 90 grain hollow point in my BG b/c it feeds reliably, shoots to point of aim and has greater penetration than other hollow point ammo. As to the +P stuff in this caliber, not for me since there is no SAMMI standard. These little guns are a last ditch, easy to carry option for folks who do not normally go in harm's way so I chose to avoid extra hot rounds that may or may not have the desired effect.

__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Used Buffalo Bore in my wife's Sig p238. It is snappy that's for sure, she could handle it but not for target practice. She uses FMJ standard pressure for the range, Buffalo Bore for self defense.

Since it looked like S&W doesn't have a real problem with it, I was going to try the Underwood +p stuff.

What's cool is that they offer it loaded with the Hornady XTP, Gold Dot (chronically out of stock) and Golden Sabre (don't like personally).

David

There is NO SAAMI STANDARD for +P in .380.
S&W specifically states the warranty is only good for SAAMI standard ammunition.
So what is being asked, and talked around, "If I use .380 ammunition that is over SAAMI pressure standards, 1. Will it blow up the gun? and 2. Will the warranty still be good?"

1. What is the pressure? Chances are, the currently sold "+P" is about the same as a .380 Proof Load, so probably "No." Certainly continued shooting of proof loads carries risk.
2. It shouldn't, but a dishonest person might lie about the ammunition and get something.

I have tested .380 handloads in a SIG right up to max as listed in an old Hornady manual, to the point cases had obvious damage including loose primer pockets and case splits. The gain in speed over a few tenths less powder (that did not damage cases) was not worth it.
Ballistically, it was still a 9mm Short, not a 9mm Luger.

It is not the first time I've seen max loads that gained little by going over the limit.

__________________
Science plus Art

I have had a number of 380's and wouldn't put hi pressure in any of them. The current guns aren't made for it. My all steel Makarov pistol ( basically a .380, but a 9x18 ) is another story. +P Hornady XTP hollow points shoot well in these milsurps, developing Muzzle energy over 300 ft-lbs , which is definitely 9mm Luger class. That, however, is a different subject. The point is that older all steel 380's can probably handle high pressure just fine, while the little shirt pocket 380's would not be a good choice.

No it can not

The manual says use only ammunition that is in "strict accordance" with SAAMI specifications. Pretty simple. If there is no SAAMI specification for +P 380's or you are using ammo that is not approved, you are on your own if something goes wrong. If your that in need of higher velocity or more stopping power, don't carry a 380! If you need a hammer, don't use a screw driver!

With all the good .380 XTP rounds out there why bother? They are so close in performance to a short barreled 9mm they get the job down without beating up your gun. Check out the Freedom munitions new .380 XTP. It runs over 1000fps and sells for $15 per box of 50 on sale. Just my opinion but it runs great out of my G42.

The manual says a couple somewhat contradictory things:

" “Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety. Use of “Plus-P” ammunition may result in the need for more frequent service."

Which means to me they don't really recommend it, but don't prohibit it, either. Like a car manufacturer is not going to recommend you drive over the speed limit.

But then they mention the SAAMI thing that cmj8591 brings up:

"Use only commercially manufactured ammunition with internal ballistic pressures which are in strict accordance with the specifications of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute (SAAMI). If you are uncertain, contact your ammunition supplier for verification."

I have always heard that there is no SAAMI spec for 380+p and assume that's correct. So this seems like a prohibition.

A little confusing, but still tempting. What's the worst that could happen...?

David

I don't have a Bodyguard right now but have an itch for one. My CCW guns are a Ruger SR9C 9mm with +P (authorized) and a Ruger SP101 .357 with some hot Buffalo Bore 158gr JHP (VERY stout).

Having said that, the Buffalo Bore 380 +P (yes I know about SAAMI) seems too hot in my opinion. It runs at least 100fps beyond anything I've seen from any of the major manufacturers (Rem, Winchester, Speer etc) produce.

If I get one, I won't run BB in it. Don

I have shot +P and standard ammo of course in both my Sig 938 (9mm)and BG 380. As far as kick goes the +P is not a choice of mine, the extra does not warrant the pain in my hand for me at least in my opinion.
As far as daily carry guns, I switched to my BG 380 as my daily carry and I forget I'm carrying it except for the reminder of the dual magazine pinching me on the other side. Total of 21 good reasons a BG 380 is effective, if I cant stop em' in 7 shots I don't need to be carrying my gun for what it's intended for DEFENSE.

When you start running some type of ammo that is significantly hotter than ALL OTHER AMMO in a bitty semi-auto pocket pistol, you should expect problems.

You don't need a warning from the builder to figure that out.

I carry Hornady "Critical Defense" ammo in my BG380.
It works fine.
.
.
.

__________________
WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

Why? Because that's your (probably uninformed) opinion?

But a warning from some know-it-all on a forum should be taken as gospel? In fact, S&W doesn't conclusively warn against +P in the BG380.

So? What?

It works fine at what? Exiting the end of the barrel? Congratulations on you liking your pet round. Let me guess. You've never used it in a defensive situation, so actually know absolutely nothing about how it "works". In fact, your choice of ammo suffers from some serious performance flaws in some very critical tests and reviews.

People are interested in learning about options, and your post contributes nothing.

David

Go for it,let us know if it breaks down early lol

Underwood ammo

I will just throw this out there to add my 2 cents worth, you can listen or flame me I do not care.
IMHO, +p & +p+ are worthless and abusive to the firearm. These high pressure round wear you pistol and lead to breakage's and inaccuracy.
Standard pressure modern defense ammo is very effective and more controllable, leading to faster follow up shots.
Which is better, one over-pressure shot or two standard delivered quickly on target?
Bottom line (And I am parroting Jame Yeager) If you need more power then a 9mm or 45, then you needed a rifle or shotgun to start with.

We will be visiting most of the national parks this summer. All four of us carry, and I really like my body guard 380. I am thinking about putting in some Buffalo bore 380 plus P rounds for bear defense, It's highly likely I won't fire any rounds at all, but just in case the bear spray doesn't work on the grissly's.
The wife has a Rugar lcp which states not to use plus p ammo, I'll have her carry FMJ standard load, my 22 yr old son will be carrying a 45 auto, and the daughter will have a 22 magnum long barrel revolver. We're gonna be wandering around all these crazy parks for a 3 months (not my idea), I just hope we don't get eaten.
Thinking about adding a 44 mag holstered (so I'll have both)
I'm most worried about Jackson hole, yellowstone, and Glacier parks, bears and wolves, but I hear there are grizzly's in Moab and Arches and grand teton parks as well. Black bears are in bryce canyon, and some of the other utah parks we plan to visit.
and wolves and mountain lions in most of the parks we plan to visit.
Any advise would be appreciated.
FE

If I was in your situation (visiting national parks and concerned about bears) I'd pack a .44 magnum loaded w/bear stoppers. Nothing else comes close and you'll need immediate incapation to survive.

__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I'd go to the bear spray before the .380, tbh. And if you can pack around a .44 Magnum accessible for bear defense, then I'd frankly either just use that for 2-legged defense, and leave the .380 for trips to town.

Although my standing policy on bears is to not be where they are.

I carry a BG, but if I was planning on going where there is a good chance of a bear encounter I would want more than a sharp stick!

Just my 2 cents.
Enjoy your trip & be safe out there.

380+P is still a 380. Bear spray would be more effective.

The manual says +P is okay but may cause more wear on the pistol. Might I ask, what's the point?

__________________
Loving retirement!

I have learned when you ask for ammo advice on the internet most people will end up more confused than before they asked the question.

Let's face it, a handgun cartridge no matter which one, is not going to be as effective as a rifle, or shotgun. Not just my opinion but the opinion of coroners, and doctors.

Truth is chances of being a victim of a crime is low, even lower with SA, and common sense. Then their is most people fear getting shot, even criminals. They see a gun, and that is enough.

IMHO shot placement is the most important if firearm has to be fired in self defense. There are cases where people continue to fight after being shot, but that has been the case with almost all calibers.

I hope the OP can come to some conclusion from the confusion. I would suggest carry what he feels comfortable with. Survival IMO is more important than warranty, but I am not suggesting +P. Not taking a stand either way.

The OP should consider the options, and one of them might be move up to a 9MM if he wants more energy.

I have been using Liberty Ammunition Civil Defense 380 in my Bodyguard 380 for years now and never had a problem. Is +p pressure but low grain 50 grain to be precise but at 1500 fps. The only problem with my bodyguard is the stupid plastic mag release that keeps wearing out and having to be replaced.

Underwood Xtreme Penetrator Bullets my work

I don't think my hand would forgive me if I shot .380+P in my Keltec P3AT.
It can't be fun.
I just use Gold Dot in it. Or ball. It's not like either one is going to turn it into a .357 Mag.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

I have the .380 "discussion" at least twice a month with friends & guys in my Gun Club. Personally I would not carry a .380 for SD even though I do own some. I bought them just because I love the design and lines of the Colt 1903 & 1908 Series M Pocket Pistols.

I'm sure you could put a few of the HOT Buffalo Bore rounds through it but would NOT make a habit of it. The gun won't blow up but will probably loosen up a bit after a while. Like someone above posted - you can't make a .380 into a 9mm and if you are that concerned with the stopping power of the .380 acp I'd simply suggest stepping up to either a 9mm or .38 Spl. J Frame. You should also consider the new Colt Cobra which will easily handle +P's and is reported to be a great handling gun that holds 6 rounds.