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  #1  
Old 04-19-2011, 06:26 PM
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Default PPK yes or no?

I did a search and did not find a PPK thread. Please pardon me if this has been done recently.

New production S&W marked PPK buy or no buy? My wartime production version has become a safe queen but I still need to get my Bond fix in once in a while.
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:47 PM
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My two cents, look for an Interarms stainless. I've owned several of 'em, never had a bad one, still have a PPKs. The S&W made ones have had a lot of problems, & that extended "beavertail" is a deal breaker for me.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:54 PM
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I think you would be happier with a Sig Sauer P232. Pro-slicker more modern pistol with the Walther lines. Con- non-Amercan (if that bothers you). I an make exception for German products.
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:08 PM
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I recently purchased a lightly used S&W PPK/S. It has been flawless and I'm very happy with it.
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:11 PM
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I bought a PPKS about a month ago and have fired about 400 rounds without a single jam or any problem. That includes JHP's and flat nosed FMJ's. The trigger pull is very smooth. Nice DA shooter. It's still a very collectible pistol plus they're about $100+ less than a SIG 232. Just clean 'em good when you get 'em and blaze away.
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:18 PM
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I bought a PPK/S in .380 a couple of years ago just before the recall. I didn't even have a chance to shoot it before I sent it east.

It came back to me cleaner than it was when I got it and with some additional action polishing above the recall repair. It has worked without problems every time I have taken it to the range.

I know there are people who reported problems or bad experiences with the Smith PPKs, but I'm not one of them.
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:26 PM
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Default S&W PPK/s

I know that they are pretty cheap around these parts and don't have a very good reputation.

Drew
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:30 PM
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I would recommend a Kahr P380
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:39 PM
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Mine has been completely flawless. I couldn't get rid of my Interarms fast enough (stovepiped on FMJ and horrible DA trigger). I use it as a sample pistol for training classes. Not a bad word from first time shooters about it or the alleged "excessive recoil" I sometimes hear about on forums.

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Old 04-19-2011, 09:15 PM
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Run the other way...PPK is a dated design for those with a James Bond fetish. They seldom feed modern ammo and have sharp edges that do not work well towards concealment.

Never mind a terrible trigger pull..

If you need an auto..look towards a compact 9mm, or for self defense..look at a j frame snub.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:19 PM
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Since you asked . . .

Nope. It's a .380, not a 45. It is virtually the same overall size as my Kahr PM 45 but weighs more. And the PM is a 45.


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Old 04-19-2011, 09:20 PM
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If you must have a PPK I'd second the suggestion for an Interarms PPK.

My shooting partner had two of the S&W versions. He sent them back a few times and dumped them both in the end. He is a PPK fan too. Good luck! Regards 18DAI.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:23 PM
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Interarms...Yes.

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Old 04-19-2011, 11:01 PM
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Thanks for all the suggestions,BUT I have a J, and a BG380, and a M&P9c and a few others for "pocket carry". Oh and a real Bond-ish PPK. A 42+/- built PPKin 32acp. It stays in the safe now for a couple reasons. The main being it has a primo set of original, difficult to replace, brown mottled grips. The grips are likely worth as much as the pistol by themselves.

The local shop has two stainless PPKs ( that being the plural of PPK not a PPK/S) in stock that I could get for cost and 10%. It would not be a EDC but a tool to reduce the temptation to do something foolish with the real one.

Would be better to find a used 32 but I can't afford the ones I would have and wouldn't have the ones I can afford at the gun shows in the area. For example a 80% Manurhin with replacement grips and one no name non-finger rest mag for $450. The local shop had a 95% Walther 32 and sold it for $700

But I will keep looking even if I should do a deal for one of the new ones.
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:36 PM
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Last Thursday found my wife gazing at the S&W revolver section in my local pusher... or so I thought. She had zeroed in on a new PPK/S - engraved and wearing a nicely carved wood grip and residing in a mahogany presentation case. She, who must be obeyed, had it under her arm as we left, leaving me feeling weird - I am an S&W revolver nut - who secretly likes the PPK series, even if my personal rude-case-tosser count is still at zero. The new S&W PPK/S joined a P22 she has - a gift from a friend.

Yesterday found us at the range - and the new S&W PPK/S hiccupped once in two boxes of FMJ - PMC Bronze and CCI Blazer Brass. Actually, despite my instructions, she rode the slide home with her hand, jamming a new mag's first round. Drop the mag, rack the slide, down drops the scarred round (... and titewad me picks it up! I fired it singly... yeah, I shot a bottom-feeder - gasp!). Reload the mag, properly rack the slide, and back to shooting - totally uneventful - and a nice trigger! She did think the recoil was a bit more stout than she was accustomed to - she had a 9mm CZ-75 for years - and carries a Seecamp .32 as a CCW - which she loves. It was a great range day - I had my PC627 UDR, 60 Pro, & 3" 63, too.

This is just proof that some really fine guns still come from S&W - even the PPK/S.

Stainz
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stainz View Post
This is just proof that some really fine guns still come from S&W - even the PPK/S.
What I don't get is all the recommendations for the Interarms version. When they were out people complained that they were made by some unknown company and were inferior to a real Walther.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellD View Post
Run the other way...PPK is a dated design for those with a James Bond fetish. They seldom feed modern ammo and have sharp edges that do not work well towards concealment.

Never mind a terrible trigger pull..

If you need an auto..look towards a compact 9mm, or for self defense..look at a j frame snub.
I'll argue those points.
I bought my PPKs brand new in 1974, way back when legal concealed carry would have been laughed at.
So if you wanted to carry a defensive pistol, you DAMN sure didn't want to be seen with a bump under your shirt.
The PPKs is very slim, although heavy being made from real steel (plastic guns would also be laughed at back then ).

It was so thin that I carried it for a couple of decades and never got a second look from a police officer.

No, I don't carry it anymore since it's been replaced by lighter and smaller pistols (my smallest carries are a Rohrbaugh 9mm and an LCP .380), but I wouldn't hesitate to stake my life on it again if the need arose.
Yes, the trigger is heavy, but it's about right for a defensive pistol.
I wore it so much that the blue wore off so I had it refinished in satin nickel so that it now looks like a stainless pistol, and hasn't shown a bit of wear since.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:33 PM
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DON"T BUY S+W PPK........Lots of problems
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:06 PM
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Cruiser,
Do you have first hand experience with the current/post recall PPK or are you repeating old opinions you read on the internet?
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:19 PM
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Check out a Bersa Thunder .380 and you might like it just as much for way less. Mine has run flawless for a few years now.



Same idea as a PPK but it actually works all the time.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:50 PM
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I also vote for the Interarms PPK version. I carried one as a BUG with 110% confidence. My only issue with the Walthers is that damned heavy trigger pull. Otherwise, I love them!
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:13 PM
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I have had a few of them over the years, starting with an Interarms stainless PPK that I had some reliability work done on right away. I also had a German PP .22 that I also had some action work and sights done on and it was great. Next was an Interarms .380 that was great. I foolishly traded it to a local pusher for a new S&W version .380 PPKs. It was a ***! I had sold it to a friend who had nothing but trouble with the gun.

they have sharp edges, they have very stiff springs so they are hard for a woman to operate the slide for jams etc.

I love the design but there are many more modern guns out there that have better reliability and do not have some of the Walther quirks.

Tom
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Old 04-21-2011, 04:06 AM
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I have a stainless Interarms PPK. Had some trigger work and pollishing done at Cylinder and Slide when stationed in Nebraska. Very nice little weapon. It likes Gold Dots and Fiocchi ball ammo the best. Also have the permanent scar on my right thumb from repeated love bites over the years. I'll be keeping it, because it works. It's also very accurate. I don't know much about the S&W version, but I don't like the look of the "beavertail" at all. I prefer the original look. Actually, the little love bites are not painful at all, just enough to let you know it's there every once in a while.

Last edited by CDawg; 04-21-2011 at 04:17 AM.
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:41 AM
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Default Some clarification on Walther PPK and PPK/S's

With all the questions on the Walther PPK and PPK/S's,
I figured I would add some of my findings.
Please correct me if any of this information is incorrect.

All my little Walthers are Stainless and are from Interarms of Alexandria VA, PPK-.380, PPK/S-.380 and TPH-.22LR and work flawlessly.
If it is a Stainless, it was made in the USA.
Blued Carbon Steel were from W. Germany

I may stand to be corrected here,
But I don't think Smith and Wesson ever picked up making the TPH after Interarms went out of business.

The findings:
From 1953 until Samuel Cummings (the owner) death April 29, 1998 @ 71 in Monaco, Interarms of Alexandria VA imported firearm models from multiple foreign manufacturers.
The Gun Control Act of 1968 limited the size and weight of handguns that could be imported - hence the Walther PPK was barred because it was too small.
To comply with GCA68, imported handguns have to score a minimum number of points.
Walther was able to accomplish this by combined the frame of a Walther PP with the slide of a PPK, and thus the Walther PPK/S was born.
Walther manufactured the PPK/S in Ulm Germany until the mid-70's when economics and a licensing agreement with Interarms moved production to the USA.

From 1978 to 1999, USA Walther PPK/S were manufactured by Ranger Manufacturing in Gadsden Alabama and distributed by Interarms(Formerly Interarmco).
The Ranger Manufacturing Co. was once Black Creek Manufacturing Co.
Swith & Wesson began manufacturing the Walther PPK and PPK/S in Houlton Maine in 2001.

Just in, adds to the confusion:
Interarms had a license from Walther Germany and the PPK/S was made by Mid-South Industries in Gadsden, Alabama for Interarms.
(See page 110 of the great coffee-table book "Walther, A German Legend" by Manfred Kersten).

Here is a cool link, scroll down to Ranger Manufacturing Co., Inc., Gadsden, AL - page 139:
http://www.vpc.org/graphics/prod2002.pdf

Try an internet search "Sam Cummings, 71, Trade In Weapons on a Grand Scale" to find the obituary and there is also some wiki info out there.
Regards,
BM1
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximumbob54 View Post
Check out a Bersa Thunder .380 and you might like it just as much for way less. Mine has run flawless for a few years now.



Same idea as a PPK but it actually works all the time.
I have the PPK and my Dad has the Bersa. Both are fine. Some people like to rag on a gun based only on what they "hear" about them and I wonder if they ever shot or owned one. My PPK has been a great performer and it is my main carry due to it's easy conceal and I trust it. I own over 30 guns and am a proud owner of a PPK.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:57 PM
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you might try to find a walther ppsuper. a little larger but most are 9x18 ultra. some are a little pricey too. great concealable gun.
also the kahr cw9 is a very nice carry gun. the trigger takes some getting used to.
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Old 04-26-2011, 05:36 PM
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(Quote)
If it is a Stainless, it was made in the USA.
Blued Carbon Steel were from W. Germany

I Think thats incorrect
While most of the Interarms made in USA PPK guns that I see are stainless
I have a blued PPK that sais made in USA under license to Walther and is stamped Interarms,
has an AO25xx serial, looks identicle to my Stainless one.

I carried them and loved them until I bought my HK version of the Mauser HSc called the HK4
It is much lighter than both and can interchange to 4 different calibers including .380, 32, 25 and 22lr.
but thats another story.

Just wanted to add that on a side note Nazi Waffenampt PPK s do pop up for like $2500 on occassion,
I used to see Manhurins on occasion but they seemd less attractive somehow even though almost identicle .
Probably the rollstamps that turned me off.
Had a coworker show me a NIB Manhurin PPks the other day in deep blue.

Also had another show me an older Interarms import made post war in Germany with the mottled brown grips.

I wouldnt hesitate to carry one and never had any issues with my Interarms guns.
They are kinda retired and so are safe guns now.
Maybe its time to pull them out for some pics.

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Old 04-26-2011, 06:41 PM
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The Blued Carbon Steel were from Walther's original factory which was located in Zella-Mehlis in the state (Land) of Thuringia.
As that part of Germany was occupied by the Soviet Union following World War II,
Walther was forced to flee to West Germany, where they established a new factory in Ulm.
However, for several years following the war, the Allied powers forbade any manufacture of weapons in Germany.
As a result, in 1952, Walther licensed production of the PP series pistols to a French company,
Manufacture de Machines du Haut-Rhin, also known as Manurhin.
The French company continued to manufacture the PP series until 1986.
In fact, all postwar European-made PP series pistols manufactured until 1986 were manufactured by Manurhin,
even though the pistol slide may bear the markings of the Walther factory in Ulm.

The State of Thuringia was restored with slightly altered borders during Germany's reunification in 1990.

(See post #24 of this thread)
In 1978, Ranger Manufacturing of Gadsden, Alabama was licensed to manufacture the PPK and PPK/S;
this version was distributed by Interarms of Alexandria, Virginia.
This license was eventually canceled.
Starting in 2002, Smith & Wesson (S&W) began manufacturing the PPK and PPK/S under license.
If it is a Stainless, it was made in the USA.

Check out Earl's Repair Service, Inc.
437R Chandler Street
Tewksbury, MA 01876
Phone: 978-851-2656
Earl's([email protected])

He is the importer for the real German Walther's, not the S&W's.
But do not mention the words "Smith and Wesson" around him...............

Regards,
BM1

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Old 04-26-2011, 11:18 PM
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The PPK is an 80-year old design that is large and heavy for the magazine capacity and power. They are blow-back and recoil is sharp for only a .380.

Many compact 9x19 pistols are smaller, lighter, have equal or greater magazine capacity and recoil less. Most any modern locked-breech .380 will be much smaller, much lighter, have equal magazine capacity, may have better sights and many will cost less.

My current .380 of choice is a Kahr P380, but a Kel-Tec P3AT will do fine for half as much. Stay away from the blow-back tiny .380s. They are brutal to shoot.
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:26 PM
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Somewhere in the story of Walther is the Manhurin connection. In the late 1980s PPK/s models in .22 and .380 started showing up marked Manhurin, Made in France. At least one article I read claimed that Manhurin had been making all of the Walthers since after the war that were marked "Made in Germany". The story being that guns are marked made in whatever country that final finishing and proofing is done in.
I actually put some credence in this because I saw a "Walther" .22 target model PPK/s, in the Walther box, marked "made in Germany" on the slide but it had a frame marked Manhurin.
In any case I have two Manhurin PPK/s pistols, one .22 and one .380. They are finished equal to what I was seeing in the 1970s-80s era Walthers, shoot wonderfully. Sometimes you still see a Manhurin here and there and people are leery of them because they're not used to the name, a real bargain potential exists with them if you're not hung up on names.
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Old 04-27-2011, 12:24 AM
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I own an early model Walther ppk in .32 acp. It is the Thuringia made Walther. Nice bluing and brown mottled grips.
Mostly a safe queen now.

What was the last year these Walthers were made in Thuringia before they moved their operation to Ulm, Germany?

-Bearman
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdh View Post
I did a search and did not find a PPK thread. Please pardon me if this has been done recently.

New production S&W marked PPK buy or no buy? My wartime production version has become a safe queen but I still need to get my Bond fix in once in a while.
All I can tell you is that I had an Interarms PPK/S long enough for one trip to the range. Due to its so-called "classic" design, it did its level best to chew my hand off. I now have a Smith & Wesson PPK (with its "abomination" beaver tail) and love it!
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeColt View Post
The PPK is an 80-year old design...
Of course it is BUT, you do understand the significance of the design in firearms history don't you?
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:26 AM
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Why is it invariably that when someone asks an opinion about a certain pistol, many chime in and reply, "Why don't you get a Kahr, Sig, etc...". If you don't know anything about the pistol in question, in this case the PPK, why don't you KEEP QUIET-READ and you might get informed about something!
Oh yes, I have the InterArms version, know nothing about the S&W, so I really can't say anything like many of you....
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:08 PM
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I'm only talking bad about the Interarms PPK's since that is all I have stove piped. I mean double feed. Oops, I mean next round won't feed. Darn it, I mean how did this unfired cartridge get stuck pointing out of the ejector port??? Fudge this thing. Take this back and don't ever let me "shoot" it again. Sorry, but that was my experience with one and some UMC FMJ from Wally World. I watched as different mags were tried, it was field stripped, a drop of oil on the rails, gentle pull to stretch the spring out of desperation, and the poor guy never could get it to run right even when he bought some of the range's ammo. But my cheap-o Bersa gobbled up all that UMC and I went home smiling.
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:45 PM
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I have both Interarms PPK & PPK/S in stainless.
No problems with either other than sharp edges and underpowered, although the blowback operation gives a sharp recoil for the .380 which makes it feel like you're shooting something larger.

I've quit carrying either and now carry a S&W 642 in .38 and sometimes my Glock 26 Neither of these are as flat and concealable as the PPK but they are better equalizers.
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:01 AM
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I love my PPK's & PPKS, but none of them are S&W's:
Interarms PPKS 380:



ULM 380 PPK with Robar plating & Tulipwood stocks:

ULM 22 PPK with S&W sight, widened trigger, Nill stocks. I love this little gun!!:


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Old 05-12-2011, 02:01 AM
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i just bought a s&w walther, very happy. just make sure the recall has been done. my dealer had it done before he put it out for sale.
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Old 05-12-2011, 06:14 AM
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Due to the widely differing experiences of PPK/S users, I did not
buy one. There isn't anyplace around here that I know of to rent
firearms, so if I wanted to try one for myself, I'd have had to buy
one, and if it was a loser, try to recoup my loss.
However, I did eventually end up with a MPA380, that is a little
snappy at 11.8 oz., and as mentioned above, has "character".
It does go "bang" every time I use it though. Good enough for me.
Glad this thread came up, it puts my mind at ease about the PPK/S.
TACC1
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:58 AM
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Smile PPK yes or no?

Six months ago I would have said, Avoid the S&W like the plague but I recently bought a S&W PPK very, very cheap to try to resell it. I decided to give it a try at the range and was very surprised to find it didn't jam, fed properly and was quite accurate so I have given it a go. Still for resale at least in my part of the country, they are slow to sell. The Interarms version goes for $450 to $600 and are usually gone the next day when advertised on KSL classifieds. If I planned to keep it, I would not be afraid to own one or else I just got a hold of a good one.
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:56 PM
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If you like the PPK get it, if you have problems send it back to S&W and they will fix it (make sure you wring it out before carry though). That said, I have shot a few of the S&W marked PPKs and have not had a problem with them, nor the pre or post war PPKs (although I do prefer the old blued ones).
As far as design, functionality and accuracy though, I have never understood the aura that surrounds the PPK as compared the the Mauser HSc, I have always had better performance from the Mauser, but you rarely hear about them anymore.
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Old 05-12-2011, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximumbob54 View Post
Check out a Bersa Thunder .380 and you might like it just as much for way less. Mine has run flawless for a few years now.



Same idea as a PPK but it actually works all the time.
Of all the pictures using various items as a prop rod, I believe that you are the first to use a razor!

Actually, I have read many good reports about the Bersa, and very few negatives. I've handled them at gun shops, but never fired one. How is the recoil? Some say it is sharper than a similar size 9mm (like the M&P9c for example.)
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Old 05-12-2011, 06:00 PM
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Well update time.

Bought the stainless 380. Haven't made it to the range yet.

Two days later picked up a TPH Haven't made it to the range yet.

The 40s vintage 32 PPK has the original grips reinstalled and now has a retirement home in the safe.

I'm not scheduled to work and the weather is supposed to be nice this weekend. We'll see what happens.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:26 PM
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I too have a very nice pre war PPK that I wanted to put away before something happened to it.

I bought and sold 2 Interarms PPK .380's that would not feed anything other than ball reliably.

I bought and sold 1 S&W PPK that had variouis issues and went back to Smith twice before I sold it.

I bought a used SIG P232, runs great. That was my backup for a while.

About 6 months ago I stopped at a little country shop to look in the used case, and there was a 1968 Walther PPK in .380 with high edge blue wear, heavy use shown on the right grip panel, and the LCI was flopping around freely.

I took the top off and it was obvious from the inside and the wear mentioned above that it had been carried a lot by a right hander, and shot, but certainly not a lot.

It was marked $475 consignment. I offered $400 cash, the shop owner called the gun owner and I got it for $428 with tax. It came with the original Alligator box, only one (flat bottom) factory mag, cleaning rod, factory target, no book, and the original paperwork showing it had been sold in late 1968 to an "Inspector" on a nearby large city PD. That explains the wear outside and the lack of wear inside.

I got an LCI spring from Numrich for $4, a set of factory replacement grips for $25, and a recoil spring replacement for $7. Now the LCI works again, and it has a fresh recoil spring even if the one that came out was ok. I never shot it before I replaced it.

I also picked up a couple of Walther magazines with the finger rest. I only use two different HP loads in .380 and it ran like a top through a couple hundred rounds of each of those, and naturally it runs with ball too.

OK, it's a little bigger and a little heavier than the LCPs that my two sons carry strapped to their body armor, but I like it, and now it is my backup.

The SIG is now cowering in the safe between my primary 1911 and my favorite 3" model 65. I should sell it, but it really is a pleasure to shoot and I have a feeling I have a daughter in law that might want it if I ever get around to offering it to her.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:54 PM
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If you can find a Manhurin, Walther, or Gerrman police issue, they are great. the one I had would feed WW Silvertips like a house afire, both .32 and .380.
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senecaap View Post
As far as design, functionality and accuracy though, I have never understood the aura that surrounds the PPK as compared the the Mauser HSc, I have always had better performance from the Mauser, but you rarely hear about them anymore.
I haven't seen an HSc in years...
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:17 AM
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I've always thought the PPK was one of the all-time sexiest designs of a pistol. One day I'd love to add one to the stable.
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reloader View Post
If you can find a Manhurin, Walther, or Gerrman police issue, they are great. the one I had would feed WW Silvertips like a house afire, both .32 and .380.
Since he beat me to it, This^^^^^^^^!!!! Sorry but the S&W versions just are not up to standard!!!!
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:25 PM
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Nope..

Well, at least "nope" for me..

There are many, MANY other choices on the market now in compact, & sub-compact pistols that are cheaper, smaller, of larger caliber, and RELIABLE.

I think the Walther (or Smith) PPK is one of the most beautiful pistols ever made, but it's too large for the caliber (now), offers the potential for slide bite (on the Walthers), and has the "reputation" for less than absolute reliability..

The reputation for less than stellar reliability is a deal breaker for me.

But, that's just my old fart opinion, yours may vary.

Best Wishes,

Jesse
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Old 05-16-2011, 01:59 AM
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Jesse as long as you can hit your target where you want to pretty much any gun will do and in addition to the Smith 645 project and this whole deal with the P38 I'm going replace the new beretta 85 that broke on me with one of these (or a P230 with a proper blueing job)

although not a Smith Made one and not a ppk/s but a german made PP since they are cheaper (half the price for the same gun basically) and less sought after than the PPK and I've never heard anything bad about them unlike the american PPK's and PPK/s

plus I have a theory that because of the spring tension from the magazine and the shorter barrel of the PPK/s that smith and wather were not using the right kind of recoil springs when they first made the PPK/S (hence that series' reputation) or atleast not with the right tension for it to operate a 100% of the time with the PPK/S series in general.

and save for the PPK/S series and the Smith made ones Jesse I've never heard anything bad about the german made PP/PPK's and you gotta remember people like to screw with things and they typically screw them up when they do so theres alot of BS going around.

FYI I'm just glad I got rid of my Smith PPK that I won at a raffle before the whole recall thing, I did have an interarms PPK before that, that never gave me any trouble but I wanted something that fit my hand better hence why I got rid of it (and why I'm going for a larger PP instead of a PPK) and I dont really like stainless guns to begin with save for the Bren Ten.

Plus it seemed wrong to have a PPK with an ugly stainless finish, I should have gone for one like this instead:
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/2303450...x937445631.jpg

but the price for one is just too much.

Basically dont underestimate the PP/PPK series' if there german made, after all Just 'cause something's old or slightly overclassed doesn't mean you throw it away.

Last edited by Kavinsky; 05-16-2011 at 02:21 AM.
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