I read on another board where LAPD's firearms training unit was offering S&W 45 Decocker school again. I'm wondering if this is true.

My understanding is that if you were originally qualified on the S&W 45, you could still carry one on/off duty. But if you were originally qualified on another platform, you could not carry the S&W.

Is this true, or just another internet rumor? Regards 18DAI.

I'm digging around on LAPD's website:

- official website of THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT

Let us know what you find out.

It is not a rumor. I confirmed it with some folks out there.

Officers currently issued and qualified on Glocks can take the one day S&W 45 decocker school and transition.

Having qualified on the 4566 and having previously shot the Glock 22 in a T&E, as well as the Glock 21 on my own time, my preference for a duty gun is the S&W 45. Nice to see others being able to make that choice.

In handguns, one size does not fit all. Regards 18DAI.

BTT. Saw we have some LAPD guys around here now. Regards 18DAI.

Don't tell me the fascination with the European squirt gun is starting to wane!

Is S&W making 4500 series pistols for LAPD?

If not, where would you get them?

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N.R.A. BENEFACTOR Member

If I were to carry a S&W .45 it would be the midsize M&P.

Evidently, there are a large number of LAPD officers, who not being enamoured with striker fired polymer pistols, are switching to the S&W metal framed 3rd generation pistols. Who can blame them? Morale being low out there, this decocker school reinstatement is seen as a bone being thrown to the rank & file by the chief.

Glocks - love them or hate them. Theres not any in between as far as I can tell. I'm neutral. The Glock 23 isn't a bad duty gun......if you like that sort of thing.

M&P? I've shot a bunch of them and participated in a T&E of the M&P 40. Universally lousy triggers. I voted for the Glock 23 in the T&E. I've no use for an M&P and prefer my 4566 and 4513TSW to plastic guns.

AFAIK S&W was still making 3rd generation 45's for LEO orders as late as 2008. 50 pistols was the minimum order. I don't know if they are still doing it - they should! Regards 18DAI.

I think they're still making the 3rd gen. guns for LE orders of 50 or more. I had to wait a while, but got a new in box 1006 "Revision 3" for duty use from S&W. It's not like any other 1006 I have. It has the black MIM hammer and trigger, and the 4506-type rounded beavertail. It's basically a 10mm 4506 in appearances, and quite different from my older 1006s.

May we see a photo please?

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N.R.A. BENEFACTOR Member

Sure. I'll take some for you in the morning. I just pulled it out and the beavertail isn't quite as round as the 4506, but it's not quite as squared off as my other 1006s. It's also a different shade of stainless, almost having a grey tinge to it. It has the black MIM hammer and trigger, and a little R3 on the bottom of the frame. S&W explained that the R3 guns underwent the same upgrades the 4506s did over the years and actually take the newer parts.

Not too long ago I did an extradition trip to Los Angeles and there were a couple of LAPD officers picking up prisoners from the facility...both had pretty new looking 4506s.

what is decocker school?

in the holster, decocked and blocked.

upon removal, sweep the decocker off making the loud click?

Here are some photos of the Revision 3 S&W 1006. I'm sure the 4506s are the same, and this one isn't anything special, just a little bit different from the older versions.

Out of interest, I phoned S&W and asked them how a LEO could get a new Gen 3 4506. They told me they didn't do individual purchases, but that they're available from major LE distributors from time to time. Mine came from Davidson's in Prescott, AZ...so that makes sense.

In looking at mine, I saw there are multiple tags on the back of the box, so I'm wondering if mine was an agency gun that wasn't delivered, and then re-tagged for sale to a distributor.

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That is beautiful.

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

Very nice! I bet it shoots great.

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N.R.A. BENEFACTOR Member

Why can't S&W put it together and realize that there still is a market for their third gen guns? Ok, so an LE organization has to have a minimum of 50. That isn't a lot of guns to special order. I'll wager that if S&W made 1000 third gens, they would sell them all.
EDIT. BTW, sweeet gun!!!

Sniper47....this 1006 doesn't get used very often. I actually replaced it as a duty gun with that 4506 you sold me. It's the most accurate handgun I've ever owned.

To return to the topic, I think with all the 4506s floating around on the different auction sites there wouldn't be a problem with LAPD officers getting one if they really wanted to carry it. The R3 versions would be nice to have, and the only real practical difference between the R3 and the previous versions is the width of the barrel hood. As I remember, the older ones with flash chromed hammers and triggers have a wider barrel hood compared to the black non-MIM and later MIM versions.

Smith & Wesson still services all of these 4506s so I wouldn't hesitate in the slightest to get an older one off an auction site.

Hey Leiden, I am very happy I could put a tool in your hand that will allow you to do your job with confidence. I still would love to see S&W release a classic 3rd gen line, like they have done with their revolvers. I firmly believe there is a market for these guns.

If we need even 100 pistols to get S&W to make a run I'll proclaim it right here and now....I'll take three NIB 4506s at whatever the retail prices is going to be (let's say $725). That leaves just 97 to go, and I'm sure we could do that.

I would give my eye teeth for a new 4506 with an integrated rail like the CHP 4006, a loaded chamber indicator like the M&P series, and a checkered front strap. I'm pretty sure if they produced it, they would sell out.

Am I wrong?

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Un-Reconstructed Southerner

Since we're wishing; I wish they'd go back to making them with a grip like the 645. I miss wood grips

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N.R.A. BENEFACTOR Member

OK. I want three of those! I'd pay up to $1000 for one without even a second thought..at that point the price is still less than a 1911 and we know the 4506 will work.

I'd like them to be de-cock only and then have the de-cock lever pop back up like the Beretta 92Gs.

me tooooooo

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Scott from Canton Ohio

Oh yes, a pop up decocker would be the cat's pajamas!

I would buy minimum of two, easy.

S&W are you listening?

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Un-Reconstructed Southerner

I'll post pics of mine tomorrow.

Wringing hands in anticipation.

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N.R.A. BENEFACTOR Member

Make a scandium framed 4506....melonited of course....NO RAIL....checkered front strap...I'll take two.

With as much profit as they make off the tupperware guns, I don't see them bothering with any other pistols........unless a serious flaw in the M&P reveals itself.

Ruger might make something folks want though. Regards 18DAI.

I picked these up from a company called Grips4U. They are quite unique and I like them allot.

Very nice!

Has anyone ever converted a 4500 series grip/frame to 645 configuration?

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N.R.A. BENEFACTOR Member

Oh man! That is tooooooo sweeeeeeeet!

I would love a Scandium framed 645 fitted up like my Shorty 45. I would sell whatever I had to get two of those.




Cat

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Think for yourself.

S&W put all of their eggs in the polimer basket many moons ago and would prefer that demand for the 3rd generation guns would fade into the sunset. However, many police departments standardized on the 3rd generation guns and S&W is still supplying them to distributors that supply those police departments. You will find no advertisement for them and they sell for upwards of $900.00.

Great to hear, I still qualify with my S&W 4506-3, along with my Dept. Glock!
S&W should listen and bring back the 4506!

Anything new on the 4506 and LAPD!

I have not had contact with my LAPD counterparts in some time.

Our firearms guy contacted the LAPD firearms section to try and get a copy of the class syllabus. They said they would get back to him. That was six weeks ago.

Last word I heard was there were quite a few - and more than initially expected - switching to the 3rd generation pistols from the Glock 21 and Glock 22. More from the Glock 22 to the 3rd gen 45.

Of course, the Glock fanboys are calling this "a step backward." Whatever. Having shot and observed many Glocks during qualifications over the years, I disagree with them concerning "Glock perfection." Regards 18DAI.

I sure would like to see that course if you get it. We're always looking for new firearms training courses.

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N.R.A. BENEFACTOR Member

This is what happens when you drink the cool aid. In their eyes, there couldn't be any other pistol that anyone would want to stake their lives on. The fact that so many would be willing to carry a weapon that was "discontinued" years ago shows that glocks are not the be-all and end-all of pistol design.

S&W needs to wake up and listen, not everybody wants a Glock or M&P, the could still sell many 3rd generation 4506's. The should still make yearly limited runs, I would bet money the would sell out quickly!

Maybe they are being allowed to change because of problems with Glocks ? Like triggerbar/safety plunger issues,causing failures to fire, recoil assemblies needing to be constantly replaced, so the gun will function,hence the new assemblies on new glock that wont fit on the older models.Rails being torn out of the frames,barrels being shot out ,magazine follower and spring problems ,just wondering if they have had any of these type issues and of course Its probably not Glock fault.

I would pay double suggested retail for one of those as described!

I have experienced large frame Glocks that will fire all day long with a quick hammer trigger press and will fail to fire with a slow controlled press. the safety plunger is a battering ram for the firing pin!!!!

of course the fix is the +trigger bar...usually

YEP,the only problem is WHEN you experience that FIRST FTF,after 5000 rounds or when some gang member is drawing down on you,would not be good,and unlike other autos you have to do a tap/rack no ability to just press the trigger again. Even the + 1 bar doesnt guarantee it will never happen or happen again. The LAPD D/C school would just be to familiarize recruits only trained with a glock,with use of the D/C on Berettas and S/W semi auto pistols that are already approved for officers trained with those type weapons in the academy or during a revolver to Semi auto transition school years ago or from a rev to glock school.LAPD does not allow the D/C to be used as a safety,no weapons carried with it in the down position,but does teach putting it into the safe position for administrative purposes,loading /unloading/chamber checking.The school would be to ingrain those techniques before allowing the different type semi auto to be carried,slide stop usage,and also cover additional malfunctions that might occur with the non-glock pistols( FTF due to mag being unlocked) etc,also must qualify with the new pistol. Then officer probably has to qual monthly instead or every other month for 12 quals I think that would be about all that would be covered,also care and cleaning maybe.

Absolutely. I have always thought it is good to have more options, or "more tools in your toolbox"....

Some people dislike the large size, and action, of the G21 grip. Others dislike the weight, and action, of the S&W 4506. Myself, I simply want a handgun that helps me put rounds on target - and I do not want one that handicaps me. But, what do I know?

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July 4, 1776 not Jan 30, 1909

Maybe. If I heard it right they are discontinuing the P90 & P94/944.

And Rugerites have been clamoring for a Ruger 1911 for ages.

Just think. All that room on the slide for safety warnings and owner's manual...

I'll have the 4506, thank you.

I spoke to my LAPD contact.

The good news keeps on coming!!

The 1911 has been approved for those patrol officers currently shooting expert. If you currently are qualified expert - and want to carry the 1911 - you can sign up for the course which commences in March.

If you pass the course - no guarantee as LAPD firearms courses are not easy - you have to then qualify once a month for a year, then every other month for the following year.

Certain models of the 1911 from Colt, Springfield and Kimber are what can be used. There are certain features that must be present. My contact did not have all the details.

While I don't think the 1911 is the best choice for a duty pistol, it's nice that those expert qualified shooters, who prefer the 1911, can use it. Choice is a good thing to have.

Previously only members of SWAT and SIS who were qualified on the 1911, could continue to carry it in new assignments. now the mere mortals ( ) of the patrol division will be able to as well.

The new chief, Chief Beck, seems to be a cops cop. Regards 18DAI.

Folks,

I have to ask the painfully obvious question:

Why is there even such a thing as "decocker" school?

I mean, this isn't rocket..surgery... (Boy, that infinitesimal pun is going to get old fast...That'll be the only time you EVER see me use it...Promise!)

Seriously, decocking isn't that tough -- although it requires some forethought...What does this school cover -- and WHY?

(That is, unless you're Denzel Washington -- in Training Day -- and in one scene the safeties are on your 4506s -- and the next instant later -- they're not...Then, in that case, maybe Denzel needed some training -- that day. But decocking isn't that hard a thing to master -- unless somebody hasn't told me something.)

And of course, decocking a 1911 -- logically -- isn't something that should be done -- except to drop the mag and rack the slide.

That's one reason I don't love 1911s. Yeah, I've lowered the hammer carefully -- but DON'T like the suspense...

1911s are not for everyone but if someone wants to carry one, they need to show extreme proficiency to a competent instructor who can give their opinion on whether 1911 is appropriate for their level or not.

having one and being able to hit is one thing but having one and knowing all the quirks and getting it into action right away is preferred.

my 2cents

Good to hear LAPD has a Chief that understands one pistol doesn't fit everyone. I hope S&W takes note and sees that not everyone wants a polymer pistol. As its been said many times S&W could sell a boat load of 3rd generation 4506's and 4566's. S&W should put all their eggs in one basket with the M&P line!

I am guessing its for people that have been using glocks and now need to build up a different muscle memory. They're used to just putting their glocks back in the holster and if they do that with the 3rd gen Smith they will be putting a cocked firearm in their holster or conversely they may decock but not have the muscle memory to take the safety off on the draw or whenever they train to do it, since there isn't a manual safety on a glock.

Just my .02

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

I am jealous. Ours is a one size fits all, take the M&P and that is it. Heck we just got hollow points back. It would be very nice to have a choice in what we carry. Maybe one day.

I just took the LAPD decocker transition school with my 4506-1. It was 3 days long, 10 hour days. My fingers were blistered and bleeding from doing so many chamber checks! I thought it was ridiculous to have a 3 day school just to learn how to de cock but now I think it was definitely worth it. The 4506 is a completely different animal than the Glock 22 I was trained with. I shoot better (currently expert) and love the feel of the weapon, minus the high amount of muzzle flip. I never liked my Glock due to the look, feel, and the way it fired. It developed issues with failing to feed and eject rounds after 5 k + rounds fired.