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Old 01-16-2011, 08:08 PM
Bwelte01 Bwelte01 is offline
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Default 1911's and California

Hello all, I am new to the forum. I have been researching handguns and have come across this site on occasion while doing so. I recently went to my local gun store and was ready to purchase a brand new S&W model 1911, item#108299. The guy helping me said they didn't have any in stock and went to check if he could order one for me. He said he found one with Davidson's, but couldn't order it because it wasn't on the California approved list. The reasoning, according to him, was that it was because it didn't have the Picatinny rail. I was completely outraged. He showed me an approved model, item# 108293. Other than that he said there was one other S&W 1911 that was CA approved. Both are very nice but not what I wanted. Can anyone give me any advice? Anything I can do? Thank you for your help!
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:12 PM
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If you want to know what you can and can't get in CA, go here:
Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale - Firearms Division - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:31 PM
Wee Hooker Wee Hooker is online now
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I feel your pain. We have similar "list" restrictions here in MA.
While I suspect the reason the model you want isn't on the Ca list has nothing to do with the "lack of rail", I'm betting ( like us) , there is no legal way around it . ( Other than to wait for updates to the list.)
That said, I see the full sized stainless version is on your list. That gun should be the same minus adjustable sights and blued finish. It would be simple to change out to adjustable sights if that's what you want. As for finish, It's personal but I don't feel the finish on the blued S&W 1911's is that durable anyway. ( My nephew bought one and had holster wear on it after just a few uses. He now regrets his finish choice.) You could always buy the stainless and have it coated if it's a color thing. Personally, I like being able to buff my holster wear/dings out.
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:40 PM
Bwelte01 Bwelte01 is offline
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I just dont understand why one 1911 would be approved and not another. Is there something I am missing?While researching, I couldnt find any reasoning behind it.
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:45 PM
Bwelte01 Bwelte01 is offline
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Thank you both for your help! I really had my heart set on that particular model, but what can you do I guess. Do you have any other brands/specific models that I can look in to? Once again thanks for the help.
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:46 PM
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I just dont understand why one 1911 would be approved and not another. Is there something I am missing?While researching, I couldnt find any reasoning behind it.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:15 PM
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Depends on whether the mfg. has submitted a particular model for testing and approval. I understand this is an expensive process.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:56 PM
Wee Hooker Wee Hooker is online now
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Originally Posted by epj View Post
Depends on whether the mfg. has submitted a particular model for testing and approval. I understand this is an expensive process.
x2. Not sure how CA does it but in MA, the manufacturer has to submit 10 of each model ( read: finish, barrel length, options etc.) for testing before it has a chance of getting on the list. That can get expensive and takes time to push them through the states limited testing capacity. Usually what happens is that the most popular models/finishes/options go in first .
My guess is the model you want will get on the list eventually but only S&W or the state can say when.

As for other models, you need to watch the list or see your local shop.
Good luck.

p.s. Don't you feel safer knowing you can't get the blue one? :-(
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:02 PM
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Not sure about the particular model you are looking at, but if it doesn't have a firing pin safety, it won't pass the California drop test unless the manufacturer changes out the firing pin (for a lighter firing pin) and/or puts in a stronger firing pin spring. Some manufacturers go through that process for some of their models. Others do not. Some buyers will not purchase a 1911 that originates from California because they don't want those "safety" features. I've also heard of Californians who have been forced to buy a particular model in a particular finish, and then they immediately send it back to the manufacturer for the finish color they prefer. Thankfully I don't live in California.

Last edited by tocohillsguy; 01-16-2011 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:21 PM
Bwelte01 Bwelte01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Hooker View Post
x2. Not sure how CA does it but in MA, the manufacturer has to submit 10 of each model ( read: finish, barrel length, options etc.) for testing before it has a chance of getting on the list. That can get expensive and takes time to push them through the states limited testing capacity. Usually what happens is that the most popular models/finishes/options go in first .
My guess is the model you want will get on the list eventually but only S&W or the state can say when.

As for other models, you need to watch the list or see your local shop.
Good luck.

p.s. Don't you feel safer knowing you can't get the blue one? :-(
Thanks for your help Wee! The blue finish actually did concern but now that I read your post I will try to steer away from pistols with that finish. You would think that an $1100 gun would only offered in stainless. I really dont know much at all but maybe there is some reasoning behind it.
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:27 PM
Bwelte01 Bwelte01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tocohillsguy View Post
Not sure about the particular model you are looking at, but if it doesn't have a firing pin safety, it won't pass the California drop test unless the manufacturer changes out the firing pin (for a lighter firing pin) and/or puts in a stronger firing pin spring. Some manufacturers go through that process for some of their models. Others do not. Some buyers will not purchase a 1911 that originates from California because they don't want those "safety" features. I've also heard of Californians who have been forced to buy a particular model in a particular finish, and then they immediately send it back to the manufacturer for the finish color they prefer. Thankfully I don't live in California.
Thanks for the input Toco! I wish there was somebody or something that could tell me exactly why it is not approved. Do you have any idea of how much it might cost to have the finish and color changed? Thanks for your help.
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwelte01 View Post
Thanks for your help Wee! The blue finish actually did concern but now that I read your post I will try to steer away from pistols with that finish. You would think that an $1100 gun would only offered in stainless. I really dont know much at all but maybe there is some reasoning behind it.
The reasoning is they don't want to make it easy for you to buy a gun.

Also, they want the the gun to be SAFE in their definition. It doesn't malfunction and go off or be to easy to shoot...
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwelte01 View Post
Thanks for the input Toco! I wish there was somebody or something that could tell me exactly why it is not approved. Do you have any idea of how much it might cost to have the finish and color changed? Thanks for your help.
I suggest you call S&W and ask. My suspicion is that it isn't approved because S&W hasn't submitted it for approval. Also for finish, you could investigate purchasing the stainless and then sending it to Wilson for an Armour Tuff finish or Ed Brown for the 3rd Gen finish. There are others that will also refinish it with any number for different products. With shipping the cost isn't going to be cheap. Just doing the slide would be cheaper.
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:40 AM
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As a Retired California LE, CA gun laws suck thats the only way to put it.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
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My suspicion is that it isn't approved because S&W hasn't submitted it for approval.
You would think that, California being such a big market, they'd try to get their products approved there.
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:55 PM
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You would think that, California being such a big market, they'd try to get their products approved there.
When I spoke to a Remington rep a few months ago he indicated that Remington wasn't submitting its new 1911 to California. I believe there is a growing manufacturer resentment to the California protocol. It wouldn't surprise me if you saw fewer and fewer gun models submitted. At some point it's possible that the only gun models that will be submitted are those being used to fill law enforcement or other big ticket contracts.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:00 PM
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Default 1911's in Ca

Contact Valkyre Tactical and ask them to get the gun for you. They are a central Ca company that modifies 1911's among other guns to get them in state under the "Single Shot Exemption" in the safe roster law. Once the gun has been converted and legally transfered to the new owner, the owner converts it back and sends Valkyre back the conversion parts. Many people have taken advantage of their service on 1911's, Springfield XDm's, Gen 4 Glocks, and other "off list" guns. Their cost for the service is reasonable, and they are stocking dealers for several makes as well.

valkyrietactical.com

There is a thread on Calguns.net about the conversion process and the laws regarding it.
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:11 PM
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Default Been down the same road...

...When I wanted to buy a Colt Gold Cup Trophy. It's a real annoyance.

Of all manufacturers, S&W I believe has the most listed on the roster. Colt has the least.
For anyone in CA. that isn't exempt, always check the roster to make sure the handgun you want is listed.

Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale - Firearms Division - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General

After paying the certification fee, the manufacturers also must pay a yearly re-listing fee or the handgun will be dropped from the roster.

The 2 major prerequisites to be added to the "safe" list for an auto are a magazine disconnect and a loaded chamber indicator, the rest is passing drop and other tests.
Don't forget about the CA. ban on internet/mail order ammo that goes in to effect on 2-1-2011.

Quote:
As a Retired California LE, CA gun laws suck that's the only way to put it.
As a Californian, that's actually a nice way to put it, I wouldn't have been as charitable.
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:52 PM
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I use to think the California gun laws were ridiculous, but given the many nutty loons in that state, I'm beginning to think it's wise. In fact it's probably best that the Burkeley crowd not be allowed weapons of any kind. Better that they stay huddled in their homes and wait for Govenor Moon Beam and other government authorities to save them from all the many dangers they fear, including global warming and the Happy Meals they seek to ban. My apologies and sympathies to the sane ones that remain in California.
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:42 PM
Wee Hooker Wee Hooker is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwelte01 View Post
Thanks for your help Wee! The blue finish actually did concern but now that I read your post I will try to steer away from pistols with that finish. You would think that an $1100 gun would only offered in stainless. I really dont know much at all but maybe there is some reasoning behind it.
Don't get me wrong, I like blued / black guns allot. It's just that some finishes are better than others.

Just noticed the Sig 1911 Targets are on the CA list. You can get those in Black Nitron finish for about the same $ as the S&W you picked out. I have one and it's a Fine gun.

Sig Products & Services
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:09 PM
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After you figure out what is "approved" in Kalifornia, maybe you and all the other good gun owners of that state should start calling your represenatives and congress men and women. You want your rights, as we all do. You have got to be active and make your many voices heard. I am on a personal rampage here in Iowa, and we just got the "right to carry" law passed here. I gaurantee the folks representing our state know who I am. Do the reps in your state know you????
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:14 AM
UCLALAW UCLALAW is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Kalsem View Post
After you figure out what is "approved" in Kalifornia, maybe you and all the other good gun owners of that state should start calling your represenatives and congress men and women. You want your rights, as we all do. You have got to be active and make your many voices heard. I am on a personal rampage here in Iowa, and we just got the "right to carry" law passed here. I gaurantee the folks representing our state know who I am. Do the reps in your state know you????
We're actually very active in California, we have to be. Many anti-gun bills have been defeated due to the efforts of the NRA, state organizations like CRPA and through the labors of dedicated gun owners on an individual level, you just don't hear about it.
Before the new ammo bill regulating ammunition sales was signed, individual gun owners literally jammed the governors phone line with calls and emails asking him not to sign the bill in to law, and there are currently three lawsuits, one active and two waiting for legal "ripeness," asking the courts to overturn AB 962, the bill regulating ammunition sales.
These lawsuits were all sponsored and funded by the good gun owners of California.

"Do the reps in your state know you????"
They know us, I can guarantee you that, the difference is for the most part they just don't care.

I grow weary of non-Californians criticising good CA. gun owners for not being proactive enough, it's just not factual. Go here and you'll get a small glimpse of active Californians:

2nd Amend. Related Legal & Political Discussion - Calguns.net

I offer this advice to anyone wanting to help California gun owners; we welcome your help and advice, but please be aware of the ongoing fight that California gun owners battle on a daily basis.

This isn't Iowa, it's a huge populous state and gun owners are staggeringly out numbered.

Sorry to smith-wessonforum for the somewhat off topic reply.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:40 PM
UCLALAW UCLALAW is offline
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Thumbs up CA. AB962 overturned.

UPDATE

Don't be so quick to sell us short, we are actively defending our 2nd Amendment rights.
Today was a victory for all good law abiding California gun owners.

Court Grants NRA/CRPA Foundation Motion, Invalidates Unconstitutional Ammunition Regulation Statute That Would Have Banned Mail order Ammo Sales & Required Ammo Sales Registration
1/18/11


In a dramatic ruling giving gun owners a win in an National Rifle Association/California Rifle and Pistol (CRPA) Foundation lawsuit, this morning Fresno Superior Court Judge Jeffrey Hamilton ruled that AB 962, the hotly contested statute that would have banned mail order ammunition sales and required all purchases of so called "handgun ammunition” to be registered, was unconstitutionally vague on its face. The Court enjoined enforcement of the statute, so mail order ammunition sales to California can continue unabated, and ammunition sales need not be registered under the law.

Full text:
CRPA

Again, apologies to smith-wessonforum if this is somewhat off topic, but this is an important development for all gun owners.
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