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  #1  
Old 01-17-2011, 12:04 PM
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Default S&W 41 vs HIGH STANDARD VICTOR .22 5 1/2

My neighbor stopped by this morning and we got to talking about plinking...he mentioned that he can pick up a high standard victory with 5.5 inch barrel and asked what I thought about the gun??? My experience with this or any High Standard is zip, zilch, nada..none. My experience with the S& W 41 is quit extensive and really enjoy target shooting,plinking etc with this semi.

My question, does anyone here have first hand experience with this model High Standard? How does it compare to the smith 41...accuracy, trigger feel, function, fit?

Thanks in advance
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:09 PM
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It should be quite a good shooter. My High Standard's shoot very well and have a nice trigger pull. I think my High Standards compare very well to my 41 in all regards.
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:12 PM
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In my bullseye shooting days I used both guns. I prefered the Victor because the grip was more like my .45 than the M41. I don't think there was any difference in accuracy, and both guns were reliable.
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snake charmer View Post
In my bullseye shooting days I used both guns. I prefered the Victor because the grip was more like my .45 than the M41. I don't think there was any difference in accuracy, and both guns were reliable.
I agree with Snake Charmer. The grip angle on the Victor is nearly identical to that of a 1911. Also, the trigger on the Victor is adjustable by a screw at the rear of the frame. I actually prefer the Victor. I don't know much about late production Victor's.
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:52 PM
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I've owned both. The older high standards were excellent guns but...

The feed from the mag lips (no ramp) so they can be jam-o-matics if the mag lips ain't tweaked just right.

Spare mags are expensive and not as available as some other models.

accessories like grips, holsters etc are slim pickings

Mounting a scope can be a project.

Watch latter production. Quality and performance vary.

All that said, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another IF the price was right. They are finely built pistols with great triggers.
Still. price being equal ( as HS are rarely cheap), I''d buy the S&W 41.
Better yet, I'd buy a Ruger MK II for 1/2 that $ for the type of shooting you describe. It will shoot up there with the others in most peoples hands and be supported by a host of inexpensive aftermarket accessories. The Ruger MK II/III/22-45's are BIG in regional competitions for a reason.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:23 PM
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Thanks for the responce...I have the mk2 govt and a 5.5 and 7.5 41 and the smiths have it all over the mk2govt..especially when it comes to the trigger...they break like a glass rod..the ruger isnt nearly as crisp.
So I guess it depends on the vintage of the HS, I should tell him to find out via the s/n when it was made and based upon this should determine if he buys it...btw the price was 650 w box. I did look on several auction sights and the prices are all over the place..is the vintage/production date the reason for the swings from 500 all the way to 900 for the same gun?
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:27 PM
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Default I agree

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Originally Posted by Joni_Lynn View Post
It should be quite a good shooter. My High Standard's shoot very well and have a nice trigger pull. I think my High Standards compare very well to my 41 in all regards.
with what she said. I go back and forth between my model 41 and my HSs. The Hamden guns seem to be the best, I'd consider them fully equal to a 41.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:39 PM
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Hamden?? was this a special production run or model?
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:30 PM
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Hamden: Production facility

High Standards were made at - in order
Hamden, CT Considered the 1st choice to get
East Hartford, CT Still pretty good, especially the earlier ones and not a bad choice
Houston TX : later - current production. I have heard both good and bad - mostly bad. would be a distant third choice for me.

My first upper end target 22 pistol was an East hartford High Standard Citation, it was very nice and shot well but I now have a S&W Mod 41 and I prefer the 41 myself.

With the Military frame (45 grip angle frame) which is used on the Victor, Trophy, Ctiation, and sharpshooter you are best to stay with std velocity ammo and it's recommended that the recoil spring be replaced every 20,000 rounds or so.
The High Standard military frames have been known to develop cracked frames ( especially if hi velocity is used but can also rarely occur with std velocity) thru the rail on the RH side at the right rear corner of the magazine well and once cracked it's a paperweight. There is also the magazine issue mentioned earlier, they need to be tweaked - tuned to the pistol. The mags are also pricey.
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:59 PM
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I believe the gun's actual designation is "The Victor", not "Victory".
I have a 1980's built High Standard Citation and also a 1980's build Model 41. Both are fine shooters but both have their quirks.
The High Standard magazines need to be lubricated lightly, and the owner's manual tells you so. If not, I found that mine would tend to not feed the rounds properly. Not so with the S&W, but they sometimes have problems with the trigger not re-setting. You must rack the slide again to make it re-set.
The High Standard's problem can be avoided if you follow their recommendation regarding magezine cleaning and lubing. The Model 41's issue is more difficult to understand. My first Model 41 was sold because even a trip to the factory did not cure it. I have known others that could not be cured as well. This is my experience and yours may vary.
Also be advised that new High Standards are built in Houston, Texas unlike those built by the original High Standard Company, which operated first in Hamden and later in East Hartford, Ct.
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:02 PM
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I shoot a Bullseye match every Saturday morning. We have about an equal amount of 41 and High-Standard shooters. I'd say both guns are pretty equally matched accuracy wise. I'd say the High Standards have a better designed iron sight set-up, but since we all shoot red dots, that is a non-issue. A big difference is in the amount of alibis. The 41 shooters are hard-pressed to get through a 90 round match without SOMEBODY having a malfunction. A 41 that was shooting fine last week becomes a problem child this week. As to High Standard's: Once you have your magazines tuned for a specific brand of ammo, these pistols pretty much go bang every time. I shoot a High Standard. The two best shooters in my club shoot Pardini's...........but that's another story.
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:19 PM
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Will "Hamden" be engraved on the frame? this will be alot easier to tell my friend to look for as opposed to look up the s/n
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:28 PM
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On the right side of the frame.
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:18 PM
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I bought a High Standard Victor, Hamden mfg., in 1983. I've owned and sold 3 S&W 41's, but have never parted with my Victor. The company logo was a symbol of a trigger breaking like a glass rod, and it does. After only about 100,000 rounds I sent it to Bob Shea, an old High Standard custom gunsmith that bought a huge amount of factory parts when they originally went out of business and was the gunsmith that finished their 10X model (all hand fitted). He still works on them and does it part time. Had mine gone through and tuned up. Been solid as a rock the last couple years.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:51 PM
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I do own both, a "A" series model 41 and a Hamden Victor. I love both guns and have had som issues with the 41. Granted the mags can be a problem with the High Standards but I have not had any problems yet. I have a safe full of Smiths, and love them to death. That being said if one would have to go, it would be the model 41. The Victor has a MUCH better trigger and groups MUCH better than the 41 I own. The Smith is very "picky" on which ammo it likes. The Victor is not near as finnicky on its diet. Both are very well crafted. But the Victor in my opinion is the better of the two. Just my 2cents worth.
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:43 PM
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I'll be the first to say I think the 41 is overpriced & IMHO not a good match quality pistol out the box . I've seen more than a few even the factory could not make shoot well , let alone dependably . The extactor is a poor design & has been so for years . Factory barrels are also problematic . Truth is some are fine & some aren't . The HS military grip Supermatics are less problematic . Magazines are the main issue . The Hamden guns are the best , have great triggers etc . East Hartford guns , like the 41 can go either way . The Houston guns are best avoided & the Mitchell's are junk . I currently own & shoot a 107 Hamden Citation & a 41 5 1/2" HB . The 41 needed a bunch of tweaks including relining the barrel to shoot as well . The 107 has a superior trigger & other than some mag adjustments has been problem / alibi free for over 43 years . Both are best with regular spring replacement & std velocity ammo . Strictly my opinion . YMMV .
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Old 01-18-2011, 07:11 PM
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I apoligize for a little thread drift but I think some of the members who replied can help me. Where can I find instructions on how to tweak High Standard magazine lips? Mine came with only one magazine. It never jammed untill the lips got bent and the gun ran perfect with a magazine I borrowed to verify that my magazine is the problem. I have not found any replacement magazines for sale.

I can't add much that hasn't aready been posted to answer the original question. Before parts for improving Ruger triggers were common, most of the better bullseye shooters I competed against were split about equally between 41s and High Standards. There were lots of competitors who loved one and swore at the other because they had jamming problems with a sample they had owned but more compititors who loved them both.

I've had better reliability with 41s but I think it's more fun shooting .22 bullseye the way most shooters did when the game started. I finished our fall league 2nd expert and 2nd overall out of 26 firing my 617 with iron sights. I think thats not too bad considering It's my 1st season after not shooting bullseye for a few years, I'm over due for new glasses, I fire the slow fire DA and the winner is nudging over the line into master class.

Whoops! I drifted the thread even further off topic. The O.P. didn't ask for a comparison of High Standards and K22s, but the same money will buy either and if you never want to have to step foward when you hear "alabi shooters to the line" ....

Thanks in advance for any help with my magazine.

Gil

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Old 01-18-2011, 08:24 PM
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K-22.............Go over to rimfire central. There is a poster named Jaybar that has some stickies on High Standard tuning and maintainence. Briefly for magazine lip tuning, you need to make a little tool to bend the lips if necessary. Jaybar has instructions for this. You have two sets of lips on your mag. The rearmost are the feed lips. These should have an inside diameter of .185". The upper front lips are the kicker lips. They should be set at .230" inside diameter. These dimensions are the baseline specs for CCI Standard Velocity ammo. If you find your lips are off, bend each side a little at a time. Its important to keep the cartridge centered with the chamber.

Funny how one poster mentioned the 41's somewhat problematic extraction. They tend to kind of kick the brass downward. I like shooting to the right of a 41 guy. You don't get peppered with brass. If the shooter is getting alibis, I don't like it nearly as much. My High Standards fling that brass with authority. If I put one down the neck of your shirt, the gun is working perfectly.........hehehehehehh!
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:40 PM
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Default Sorry....

but I'll pass on a 41 every time to get hold of one of these. I've had the HD Military since I was 10 years old. The Supermatic for the last 20 years. If there's a chance I might end up swimmin' with it, I take my Ruger MKI.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:39 PM
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Get the 106, 107, and ml as last resort, stay away from the sh high standards. The citation, trophy, or victor will all preform well.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:20 PM
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I have owned three High Standards. A Military HD, A Citation (Hamden) and the one I own now, a Victor made in East Hartford. I highly recommend these pistols. Wise to stay away from high velocity ammo as mentioned. I can't compare with the Model 41 as I don't own one and have never had the pleasure to shoot one. Would not hesitate to recommend the Victor.
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Old 01-18-2011, 11:02 PM
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Collect 41s (46s/41-1s/52s) along with HS Victors (Basically Hamden). Bullseye - prefer the 5.5" HS Victor because of grip. For field, I carry a S&W 46 with 5" sport bbl. Both are highly reliable, great triggers, good balance. Chose based on your personal gut feel after trying both. Both have various bbl and grip choices (aftermarket).

I personally prefer the older - S&W with cocking indicator - Victor Hamden only - but then I am slightly older than fire and brother to dirt.
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Old 01-18-2011, 11:25 PM
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FWIW, I prefer the Victor. The 41 always felt "awkward" to me. Just my opinion only. I like a 22 conversion on a 1911 better than either, but I'm not a bullseye shooter.
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:13 AM
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My son owns a Victor, while I own and shoot a model 41. I'd say it's a bit of a toss up between the 2. My model 41 is very picky about the brand of ammo I feed it, the Victor seems less picky. I can still buy factory magazines and run them right out of the box. My son has been having a hard time finding quality magazines for the Victor, and can't seem to properly tune the magazines he does have. Depending on the type of competition, the 41 has a slight advantage in the magazine changing department. The 41 has a 1911 style magazine release which is easier to operate than the magazine release of the Victor. Both are extremely accurate. I vote for the 41 only because you can still get factory replacement parts.
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:25 AM
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I just shot a Victor last week. I was issued a 41 in the past so I have experience with both. Granted, I did not shoot a match with the Victor, just a few rounds, but the gun was very accurate. What really struck me, though, was how exceptionally well-balanced the gun was for me. It goes beyond the .45 grip angle. It just hung on target for me - of course I was shooting it one-handed. I can't remember any gun that felt so well balanced, for me.

Chris
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:30 AM
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i tried both before I bought, I bought the Victor ( a 1972 Hamden) because the grip angle of it was better for me. IIRC they designed it to feel like the M1911.
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Old 01-19-2011, 04:28 PM
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I shot both the Victor and mod. 41 in competition and I liked both. I slightly preferred the shootability of the High Standard, I believe that it stayed on target a little better than the Smith. I attribute this to a lighter slide and, therefore, felt a little more comfortable in timed and rapid fire stages with the High Standard. I shot my best scores with the High Standard but the differences in inherent accuracy were negligable between the two. I had more concerns with the trigger pull on the Smith, it broke at exactly 2.2 lbs. and I was always worried that I would be disqualified for the trigger pull, I had to gingerly lift the kilogram weight off the ground while holding my breath or it would drop the hammer.

Good luck whatever you decide,
Steve
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Old 01-19-2011, 04:47 PM
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Check out the comments at rimfirecentral.com for detailed info on High Standard. While I bought a model 41, I still think about a HS Victor. The Houston company seems to be making a great product again.
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:26 PM
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thanks guys...I told my neighbor everything and he bought the gun... it was a hamden ct made HS...

Last edited by bigshot500; 01-20-2011 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot500 View Post
Thanks for the responce...I have the mk2 govt and a 5.5 and 7.5 41 and the smiths have it all over the mk2govt..especially when it comes to the trigger...they break like a glass rod..the ruger isnt nearly as crisp.
So I guess it depends on the vintage of the HS, I should tell him to find out via the s/n when it was made and based upon this should determine if he buys it...btw the price was 650 w box. I did look on several auction sights and the prices are all over the place..is the vintage/production date the reason for the swings from 500 all the way to 900 for the same gun?
Your right, but the the rugers trigger can be fixed pretty darn nicely with a drop in $30 sear. My S&W 41 does not have a great factory trigger nor is it a home spun job to fix it. Not saying the Ruger is a better gun but I'd argue it's a better value.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:12 AM
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I was under the impression that the government model had an improved trigger? are you certain that a drop in sear will improve the feel?



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Your right, but the the rugers trigger can be fixed pretty darn nicely with a drop in $30 sear. My S&W 41 does not have a great factory trigger nor is it a home spun job to fix it. Not saying the Ruger is a better gun but I'd argue it's a better value.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
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I was under the impression that the government model had an improved trigger? are you certain that a drop in sear will improve the feel?
Quite. I've done five of them. They come out very nice. There is still a slight touch of creep but MUCH improved and down to 2.5#. Both Volquartsen and Clark make trigger kits. Check out rimfirecentral dot com for reviews on the kits and links to install them.( As well as discussion on the 41 and HS).

hth
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:19 AM
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this is what you would suggest?
https://www.volquartsen.com/pictures...ii-target-sear
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:37 PM
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I own a S&W 41 and a Hi-Standard Victor. I aquired my first M41 in about 1980, purchased new and shot it in bullseye competition. I fired an average of 5k rounds/year through it with no loss of accuracy. I have since aquired an early version of the M41, with the cocking indicator. It too is a tack driver and works flawlessly. About three months ago I acquired a Hi-Standard Victor. The more I fired it, the better I liked it. Like my M41, it is very accurate on the bullseye range at 50 yds and functions flawlessly. The more I shoot it in bullseye competition, the better I like it! I purchased a Marvel Gun Works scope mount for it and installation was a breeze, just remove the ventilated rib and the Marvel Mount replaces it. The screw holes line up perfectly, no drill & tapping required. The Marvel Mount was $45. Also, Champion's Choice sells a grip mount for Hi-Standard pistols for about $50., no drill & tapping required for it either. I have a grip mount on my M41 too, same, no drill & tapping. I love both pistols and would not rate one over the other. Both are masterpieces of craftsmanship, accuracy and reliability!!
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:08 PM
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Back in the day when I shot on a Navy Team I started out with a 41. Switched to a 107 Military Victor, the scores went up 7% and I never looked back. The trigger was the best and the 1911 grip angle was just the ticket. Didn't dislike the 41 but fell in love with the HS.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:51 AM
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I started out with a Military V., traded it on a new M46, and then traded that for a new M41 in 1967. I added a second 1967 M41 later that year (I was single at the time).

I have never had a bit of problem with the 41s with the exception of the occasional alibi which is usually was a case which failed to clear. Other than replacing a worn Mag release and springs the parts are all original.

I now use Bully Barrels which have no extension and since switching ejection failures have ceased. My lifetime supply of Peters SV is now almost gone so I use CCI SV and FTF are very rare.

I cannot imagine anyway that triggers could be better than those on this pair of old 41s.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:30 PM
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I shot bullseye in the 60s and used a MKI ruger bull barrel. I just recently got a 41 and I love it. I've shot a few HS, I don't remember the models but they were exelant shooters. As for the problems with the 41s, I had a lot of feed and ejection problems but after a through cleaning I cant seem to make it malfunction. I've used every thing from the loose bulk ammo to the match grade in both standard and high velocities. I don't use the high vel ammo as a rule but i was trying to see if I could get it to malfunction and couldn't.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:56 PM
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I had an East hartford Citation and now have a Mod 41. Both the Hi Standard and the 41 are great pistols but I prefer my 41. As has been stated; the H-S is dependent on a pricey magazine that MUST be tweaked to the pistol. Also, the recoil spring is of small dia; tends to rub in it's channel wearing it thinner and should be changed every 20k shots or so. Last; the Hi-Standard frame can crack on the right side where there is a thin area with a relatively sharp inside corner; especially if high velocity ammo is used or the recoil spring weakens. If it cracks the frame is done.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:34 AM
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I have the S&W M41 & a Less expensive High Standard, Hamden, Sport King Lighting with the Two barrels & box. The gun is about 98%. One barrel is the 4" & the other is the 7 3/4?? I was lucky. My 41 has a very lite trigger with zero creep. Of course the High Standard has the same trigger pull.
I only use Standard Velocity in both guns.
I have three H.S. magazines with no problems.
I like my 41 the best but I don't have one of the trophy's to compare.
My H.S. is a 1975 model Sport King. All the numbers match on the frame & both barrels. The H.S. were all machined & have hand fitted trigger. Very smooth. Both the 41 & H.S. are very easy to disassemble & reassemble.
I believe parts are available for both.
Very clean H.S. Victor's, etc. can bring some $$. You should have a nice shooter with either.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:19 PM
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as wee hooker get a ruger and have a smith do trigger job or install aftermarket and bead front sight.
hell-for-stout built.
I went diveing in 10' of cold mountain stream river one november day when I was younger man and flipped my canoe when spaniel jumped out. lost my pistol in the scramble after I flipped. now I know why kayakers wear helmets I took a substantial 'whack' to the noggin from the canoe's aluminum gunwale. but got canoe and most gear on bank - I had a lashing to my pack and paddle so got a large fire going after I got the canoe aright and de-watered. I stripped off and went diveing to get that pistol. took me several dives I was near to turn blue. got it and when I got to the bank I swirled it around in the cleaner water after I pulled the mag and cleared a cartridge. slung the water off it and checked the barrel, loaded and it FIRED. mof shot couple squacks and a grey fox going to my take-out landing.
I love the 41's though.
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  #41  
Old 12-29-2012, 09:58 PM
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After being used to the M41, I didn't like the Victor safety and slide release. The Victor was a quality shooter, but I traded it fairly quickly. Was a beautiful gun otherwise.
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  #42  
Old 12-29-2012, 10:52 PM
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I have fired a High Standard but have found my 41 and 46 feel the best to me with the trigger pull and the hand grip feel is also better with these 2 guns also. The High Standards i have aaxcess to belong to my gun club and are not really taken good care of at all so that is probably part of the reason why they feel not so good to me.
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  #43  
Old 01-03-2013, 09:04 PM
GF1 GF1 is offline
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Very close, much is personal preference and feel. Have had the High Standard, liked the Victor very much, but prefer by a hair my 5.5" M41 w/ cocking indicator; this gun gives me shots I should not get. That said, I like the Victor better than my other 7" M41 (and I like this one alot for field use particularly).
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  #44  
Old 09-10-2013, 02:24 PM
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GF1 is right, personal preference depends a lot on how a gun feels in the hand. This is only a factual thing to the shooter. I own both, shoot both, like both. My reasons for slightly favoring the M41 is that I believe it's basic design is better. Frame cracking is never heard of, and the takedown procedure is far superior. A buffer can be purchased should the shooter wish to shoot HV, as it is said, that can crack the slide. That said, I would much rather deal with a cracked slide than a cracked frame. The HS has a very weak frame, and that's scarey.
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  #45  
Old 09-10-2013, 04:06 PM
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My Uncle is a .22 handgun freak and Hi-Standard aficionado. He always lusted after a41. He finally got one a few years ago. It was the jammingist gun I ever saw. It was extremely rare to run a whole mag out of it without a failure. Different mags, different ammo it just plain would not feed. He sent it down the road and continues to enjoy his HS's. I bleed S&W blue but wouldn't give you a nickel for that 41. I love my 1951 103 Supermatic Tournament.
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  #46  
Old 09-10-2013, 09:30 PM
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I guess that I am like several others, I have owned both in the past. The 41 never did run right and two gunsmith's could not get it to run right. It went down the road. My Hamden 107 has been right for about 20 years now. I prefer the 1911 style thumb rest grips as well. If you have a good 41 I think they are equal. In the ones I had the HS had the better trigger and sights. Hard to say which is the "better", but you will not go wrong with a Hamden HS pistol. Magazines can be found from Brownell's and the HS company in Houston. they are tuned to CCI standard velocity rounds. Aftermarket mags are junk. I love S&W and may try another 41, but only if I get to test fire it first.
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  #47  
Old 06-05-2014, 10:38 PM
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I have 2 Model 41's and 8 Hi-Standards include this first year The Victor. For me, my Victor has a better trigger but I am lucky to have had Bob Shea go through the gun, fine tuning the trigger and 3 magazines as well as replacing all the springs. I have read that the 4 1/2" barrel and steel rib are prized by collectors but I just like the fact that it shoots like a dream!

Bryant

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Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols Thread, S&W 41 vs HIGH STANDARD VICTOR .22 5 1/2 in Smith & Wesson Semi-Automatic Pistols; My neighbor stopped by this morning and we got to talking about plinking...he mentioned that he can pick up a ...
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