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  #1  
Old 02-23-2011, 11:57 PM
wowsplat wowsplat is offline
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Default 6906 springs

I just got a service pack of wolf springs for my 6096 third gen. Got me a set of s&w cup punches from brownell and successfully broke the whole pistol down except for one darn pin. Im having trouble getting out the pin that holds the extractor in. Any ideas?
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:34 AM
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from the inside out is how you get it out.

from the outside in is how you get it back in.
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Old 02-24-2011, 01:16 AM
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The extractor pin comes out from the top of the slide down and goes back in from the bottom up. It is not a straight pin like all of the other ones.

Welcome to the forum.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:28 PM
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Default From the Smith & Wesson Pistol Armorers School Manual

I pulled this from the Smith & Wesson Pistol Armorers School Workbook (Manual) dated October, 1998 by Stephen M. Murphy.

This is a quote;
"The pin is straight, in a reamed tapered hole.
Remove from top to bottom and install from bottom to top.
If you flatten (expand) pin, flat portion goes in last.
Pin must be flush or below the slide rail surface"

Hope this helps.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:58 PM
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If it were me, I wouldn't punch the extractor pin or pull the extractor unless it, or the spring, required replacement for repair.

Even then, making sure the replacement spring exhibits the right tension requires use of a force dial gauge to check it.

Too heavy and you can get feeding problems ... too light and you can have failures-to-extract (especially when the chamber walls get hot and start to foul).

FWIW, the double stack 9mm guns have a 4-8lbs tension specification in the original, narrow barrel tab configuration; and 7-11lbs in the wide barrel tab configuration, although different extractor springs can be used to get any particular gun to exhibit the recommended tension range.

Even once the recommended tension spec is reached, however, if actual live fire demonstrates an apparent problem related to tension - feeding or extraction - a different strength spring may be needed to get the extractor working right in that particular gun (such as when it comes to which end of the recommended range provides for optimal functioning in that gun).

bad_man_ one's comment from that copy of the manual is the same thing I've been told in classes. In earlier classes they used to include a tapered needle reamer tool for armorers to use to clean out any roughness or burrs in the extractor pin hole (tapered so it didn't enlarge the upper portion of the hole).

The comment about the pin having to remain flush (or "below", within the hole) at the bottom end of the hole was to make sure the pin didn't protrude and drag along the frame, as well as not gouge into the alloy frame below the pin as the slide moved. You'll notice the newer production slides actually have a nice beveled space around the bottom of the pin hole. It raised the bottom of the hole up just a bit above the frame rail on that side ... and it made it easier to use a wider diameter flat-end punch to really seat the pin in the hole.
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Last edited by Fastbolt; 02-25-2011 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:56 PM
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Thanks Fastbolt,
I knew you would be in on this one.
Best regards,
BM1
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:25 AM
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When the fat lady sings, the opera is over.

When Fastbolt posts, the thread is over.


Thanks Fastbolt, for sharing your depth of knowledge in such fashion that even I get get it.
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Old 02-26-2011, 02:09 PM
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De nada guys.
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Old 03-02-2011, 03:02 AM
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Didn't want to start a new thread, but does anyone know where I could get a nice copy of the s&w 3rd gen auto loaders schematics? I would like to print one out and put it up on the wall of my man cave
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Old 04-14-2011, 02:57 PM
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my 6906 kept failing to go into battery so i replaced the recoil spring. here is the old one compared to the new one. i bought my 6906 in 2002 im the original owner and ive put thousands of rounds through it.
041311162448.jpg
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Old 04-14-2011, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by wowsplat View Post
my 6906 kept failing to go into battery so i replaced the recoil spring. here is the old one compared to the new one. i bought my 6906 in 2002 im the original owner and ive put thousands of rounds through it.
Attachment 42692

Being so much shorter & tweaked it's not surprising you were experiencing some failures to go into battery.

FWIW, the factory recommends that armorers replace recoil & magazine springs in guns dedicated to defensive roles every 5,000 rounds fired or every 5 years (if the magazines are left fully loaded the whole time), whichever comes first.
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:25 PM
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Thanks for the tip, I didn't know that
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Old 04-22-2011, 03:17 PM
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Is there anyway of figuring out which spring goes where on the 6906? Say if i pulled out all the springs on my 6906 and threw them away, then i bought a wolf service pak to replace them. How would i know where each spring goes? Beside the obvious recoil, main and firing pin springs....
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Old 04-22-2011, 03:31 PM
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Fastbolt definitely gave the correct answer,unless you have to fit a new extractor ( usually because some people load the chamber ,by dropping a round in and hitting the slidestop,forcing the extractor to go around the cartridge rim ) BAD. LEAVE it alone,unlike alot of other semi auto,beretta/glock there is no acess/weephole whatever to the extractor ,so usually they dont get any gunk behind them if you clean the gun after shooting. Even at best its hard to get all the holes to align pefect to fit the pin back in, I made a piece to fit inside my vicejaw to hold everything to get the pins started.
But in the old days I broke alot of punches,when we had to double spring a bunch of early Smith autos.
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Old 04-23-2011, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wowsplat View Post
Is there anyway of figuring out which spring goes where on the 6906? Say if i pulled out all the springs on my 6906 and threw them away, then i bought a wolf service pak to replace them. How would i know where each spring goes? Beside the obvious recoil, main and firing pin springs....
You threw away all of the springs? As you're probably realizing, keeping the existing spring as a reference when you go to replace it can be helpful.

I can't remember ever ordering a pistol service pack from Wolff (although I use a lot of their mag & recoil springs for my 1911's and some mag springs for some double column mag 3rd gen guns), but you can hope the springs come in individually marked packages like when they're ordered individually. That would make it easy to identify the springs.

While there are many springs in the 3rd gen guns that I easily recognize for what they are, there are some that I prefer not to risk mixing up with others. I just don't have to replace them often enough to memorize them.

The main spring, recoil spring, firing pin & drawbar plunger spring are easy enough to recognize, since there aren't any other springs really close to being the same design & size, but some of the smaller springs can be confusing if you don't have a manual for reference and haven't seen them. After all, look how easily even experienced folks can find it to mix up the manual safety body plunger spring and the ambi lever plunger spring ... and mixing up those 2 small springs can cause functioning problems.

The 2 "lever springs" ... the lightweight, short & wide springs that are located under the ejector/mag depressor lever on the left side and the sear release lever & firing pin safety lever on the right side are easy enough to identify, as they're identical to each other (same spring) and are different than the rest of the springs.

Me? I go out to the bench and pull the needed springs from my parts containers and compare the old & new springs, noting the part numbers and making sure they match the intended application.

I also keep the factory part numbers in the little bins for some of those springs I need to make sure aren't mixed up with another spring. Sometimes I keep smallest and/or seldom used springs contained in the small clear plastic envelopes in which they came from the factory (and are marked with the part number). Easiest for them not to get mixed up that way.

I've been to a lot of armorer classes for different guns and I don't like confusing springs ... and I don't like to count on my memory for many of them (only the most obvious and easiest to remember).

Something else which can occasionally complicate things is that a factory spring may have received a slight revision and look a little different than the spring being replaced. An example of this which happened to me was when the firing pin safety plunger spring and the ejector depressor plunger spring were changed in the length of the spring and the wire gauge used at some point. Fortunately, I double checked the part numbers, and each of those springs are just the right diameter to exactly fit inside the recessed holes of their respective plungers (and they're differently sized).

Some factory springs are "closed end", meaning the end coils are flattened and not rounded like the rest of the coils.

Now, this is just talking about the factory springs. Buying aftermarket springs may result in getting springs that meet the required specs, performance-wise, but which my be longer and/or use different gauge wire material ... and look different than the factory springs intended for the same application.

You might consider ordering the factory springs and using them. They'll come in marked bags/envelopes and you can look up the part number in the factory parts list to match it for your model and then write the application for each spring on the little bag next to the part number.

Factory provided springs are relatively inexpensive and are serviceable. They've been designed (and often revised) so they meet specifications the gun makers feel are necessary for allowing their guns to provide the intended optimal operation and functioning.

One thing I'd mention about the 9/.40 slides in the 3rd gen guns is that there is an opening in the bottom of the slide which allows excessive solvents & cleaning agents to migrate into the extractor's recessed slot. It's a narrow machined slot found on the bottom of the slide to the right side of the slide's pickup rail. Slopping and sloshing excessive liquids on the bottom of the slide, and especially into the "grooves" to each side of the center pickup rail, can allow the liquid to gain access to the space under the extractor. (I use a very lightly dampened patch wrapped around the narrow end of a plastic M16-type nylon brush to get into those grooves, myself ... and also in the slide rails.)

I'll sometimes place the tip of an air compressor nozzle up under this narrow bottom slide slot in a gun I suspect to be heavily fouled with "fresh" solvents & lubricants. The air pressure can force out some amount of excess liquids, causing it to flow out around the body of the extractor in the side of the slide (where it can be wiped away before flowing back inside the recessed slot). Wear safety goggles.

The .45 slides lack this machined slot under the slide leading up into the extractor recess.

Just my thoughts ...
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