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  #101  
Old 05-07-2011, 08:19 PM
Sonny Crocket Sonny Crocket is offline
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Well there appears to be some conflicting information here. I live on the border to WV and my dad still lives there. I keep hearing locally that they are staying with the 4566 and some of the Melonite/integral rail models have already been tested/issued. I need to hit up one of the three troopers that live in my dad's neighborhood and see what I can find out. Institute, where the academy is located, is just before Charleston and you can see it from I64. I have half a mind to go there and ask.
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  #102  
Old 05-17-2011, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Sonny Crocket View Post
Well there appears to be some conflicting information here. I live on the border to WV and my dad still lives there. I keep hearing locally that they are staying with the 4566 and some of the Melonite/integral rail models have already been tested/issued. I need to hit up one of the three troopers that live in my dad's neighborhood and see what I can find out. Institute, where the academy is located, is just before Charleston and you can see it from I64. I have half a mind to go there and ask.
Hey "Sonny", any updates, I had heard Glock 21's, but I still see 4566TSW's, Let us know when you can!
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  #103  
Old 05-17-2011, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim Nagel View Post
Hey "Sonny", any updates, I had heard Glock 21's, but I still see 4566TSW's, Let us know when you can!
No, sorry, haven't had time to get up there. Hopefully within the next two weeks.
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  #104  
Old 05-25-2011, 12:48 AM
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OK, let us know if you find out anything Sonny.
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  #105  
Old 05-25-2011, 01:12 AM
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Here's the current contract...
http://www.state.wv.us/admin/purchas...ck/DPS1020.PDF

Expired 1/10,but can extend for 12 months before a new contract is awarded.
Looks like they have a few months to decide.
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  #106  
Old 05-27-2011, 09:27 AM
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Talked to a state trooper yesterday (veteran officer), who said they are definitely staying with the 4566.
Don't know if thats the real iggy, or just his opinion.
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  #107  
Old 05-27-2011, 11:17 PM
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Default 4566

I spoke with a source from Smith and Wesson at the NRA Convention. He confirmed that they are making a new batch of Melonite 4566's at the Houldon, Maine Plant for WSP. He said a new Cadet class fired 4,500 out of the first batch without any issues.
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  #108  
Old 05-28-2011, 12:48 AM
Charlie Foxtrott Charlie Foxtrott is offline
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Default Seeing as how my original issue 4566 has not skipped a beat.

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I spoke with a source from Smith and Wesson at the NRA Convention. He confirmed that they are making a new batch of Melonite 4566's at the Houldon, Maine Plant for WSP. He said a new Cadet class fired 4,500 out of the first batch without any issues.
This is after 20,000 rounds plus including being dropped on the pavement a few times. I would like to put myself at the head of the list for buying a new one. I do not expect mine to fail any time soon. That is the reason that I would like to get another one.
If it is not broken, Do not fix it!
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  #109  
Old 05-31-2011, 12:46 AM
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I spoke with a source from Smith and Wesson at the NRA Convention. He confirmed that they are making a new batch of Melonite 4566's at the Houldon, Maine Plant for WSP. He said a new Cadet class fired 4,500 out of the first batch without any issues.
Outstanding! About time we have a major Police Agency stay with steel over polymer! Kudos to S&W for still producing the 4566TSW!
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  #110  
Old 05-31-2011, 01:09 AM
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I also got some more info. The Melonite 4566s are slowly getting out to the Troopers...but they are having some issues already. One group had some sort of spring issues, no specifics, sorry. They are also having finish problems, its wearing off extremely easy.
Also heard they were offered the M&P45 by S&W but they wanted to stay with the 4566s. They paid big money for them too, around $7-800 a piece if I remember correctly.
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  #111  
Old 05-31-2011, 04:45 AM
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I also got some more info. The Melonite 4566s are slowly getting out to the Troopers...but they are having some issues already. One group had some sort of spring issues, no specifics, sorry. They are also having finish problems, its wearing off extremely easy.
Also heard they were offered the M&P45 by S&W but they wanted to stay with the 4566s. They paid big money for them too, around $7-800 a piece if I remember correctly.

Its not good to here that they are having problems with 4566's, hopefully its something minor. Nothing like getting a new pistol that doesn't work. S&W 4506/4566 are usually boring reliable! Hope that get the problem fixed quickly!
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  #112  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:56 AM
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Its not good to here that they are having problems with 4566's, hopefully its something minor. Nothing like getting a new pistol that doesn't work. S&W 4506/4566 are usually boring reliable! Hope that get the problem fixed quickly!
Maybe they forgot how to make them?
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  #113  
Old 05-31-2011, 09:16 AM
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I wonder if they have anyone left that use to make them.

I wouldn't be quick to give S&W any kudo's. They are only making these because WVSP said 4566TSW's or nothing. They pushed their plastic gun hard - and were told no thanks. Regards 18DAI.
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  #114  
Old 06-04-2011, 08:19 PM
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My Friend just bought one of the old WVSP 4566's,and I think I have one lined up to.
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  #115  
Old 06-05-2011, 07:42 AM
S&MCQBRECON S&MCQBRECON is offline
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Couldnt they just stick with the all stainless finish? Melonite is the same stuff on Berettas right? Got my 4506 on a over run. I waited a year and a half. Almost forgot i put a down payment.
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  #116  
Old 06-05-2011, 10:40 AM
VTHokiesDuckHunter VTHokiesDuckHunter is offline
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Default Melonite finish

I think Melonite is one of the better finishes. It is a salt bath nitriding process and imparts deep corrosion resistance and hardness to the metal in addition to the blue/ black color.

Even if some of the color eventually "wears" off, there is still significant corrosion resistance left.

Melanite is very similar to Tennifer and related processes and most of the modern guns including Glocks, Walthers, and S&W's that wear these finishes have proven to be very durable - finish wise.

Of course "Stainless" Steel can stain, corrode, or "rust" in certain conditions, especially in high humidity/high salt environments. Melonite, hard chrome, NP3 and other treatments are just the ticket. The blackened Melonite finish can be an additional plus, in my opinion, for taking the shine off of guns that shouldn't have "shine". (there's a reason that most of the military and related types don't use shiny guns for most operations)

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  #117  
Old 06-05-2011, 03:29 PM
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Couldnt they just stick with the all stainless finish? Melonite is the same stuff on Berettas right? Got my 4506 on a over run. I waited a year and a half. Almost forgot i put a down payment.
Melonite/Tenifer is a metal hardening treatment while Bruniton (iirc) is a baked on polymer/Teflon coating.
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  #118  
Old 06-05-2011, 03:57 PM
VTHokiesDuckHunter VTHokiesDuckHunter is offline
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Remat is correct- I meant to address the Beretta finish in my post. While some people are happy with the baked on Polymer/teflon finishes, and Beretta does it very well- it seems like a lot of consensus is that the metal hardening type finishes are more durable, and they also do not affect the guns dimensional tolerances in any way.

Ithaca is using a similar process to that used by S&W and Glock, on some of their Defense and Waterfowl shotguns that are now made in Upper Sandusky, OH. I think they call their version "Permaguard"

I was over at their factory a few months ago getting a new butt stock on a M37, and saw first hand how effective this treatment is. You can also read about it and see some good images here:

RANDY WAKEMAN OUTDOORS

I'm keeping my eyes open for a good 3rd gen 3913/3914 or similar gun that has been shot little, can be bought cheaply, but needs refinishing - and am going to see if Zak and his guys will put a Permaguard finish on it for me (if not I'm thinking about Robar's NP3)

I don't know of any other shotgun makers using hardening/nitriding type finishes on their guns although there might be.

By the way, if you like classic styled, yet modern manufactured pistols with ultra high quality (made entirely in the U.S.)- check out Ithaca's new 1911. I got to handle a few pre-production models- they are really sweet! (sorry about the thread drift.....)
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  #119  
Old 06-06-2011, 04:01 PM
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I have one of the melonite 4566s from the NH maritime agency or US Marshal SOG overun (not sure which order its from).

Anyway, I carried it for a period of time and shot it quite a bit. The melonite is a very tough durable finish. Not like the black finish put on other 3rd generation pistols.

Be advised that with the rail free, earlier production melonite 4566's the small parts like the slide stop, decocker paddles, hammer and trigger are NOT melonited. They are coated in the previous cheap black finish and wear rather quickly from normal use. Perhaps the same practice was used in these later melonite 4566TSW's?

I am informed by members here that if you send a pistol off for a refinish to S&W, they DO NOT recoat these aforementioned small parts. You must send them out elsewhere to be refinished to match the rest of the gun.

I don't know this to be a fact though, as I don't use S&W for refinishing work. Just an FYI. Regards 18DAI.
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  #120  
Old 06-06-2011, 04:21 PM
VTHokiesDuckHunter VTHokiesDuckHunter is offline
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Default what was the previous 3rd gen Blackened Finish?

18 DAI wrote:
Quote:
The melonite is a very tough durable finish. Not like the black finish put on other 3rd generation pistols.
If that's the case, which I know it most likely is, then what was the previous 3rd gen blackened finish?

Was it a Black Oxide treatment?
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  #121  
Old 06-06-2011, 04:27 PM
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I'm not sure if it was black oxide. I can tell you it was a cheap finish.

I seem to recall S&W calling it "black magic" finish. Perhaps KurtC can tell us.

I had it on my 910. It wore thin in just a few weeks of carrying. Scratched easily and was not rust resistant either. Sorry I can't provide more info. Regards 18DAI.
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  #122  
Old 06-06-2011, 04:50 PM
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Same finish on the 915. It's ****, but it DOES make a nice bed for duracoat.
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  #123  
Old 06-06-2011, 05:44 PM
VTHokiesDuckHunter VTHokiesDuckHunter is offline
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is that the same finish that is on the 4014, 3914's 5904's, etc?
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  #124  
Old 06-06-2011, 07:29 PM
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Negative. I had a 5904 that was a nice matte blue. The finish on the 915 is garbage by comparison. (Not really complaining, because the prices are awesome on those guns)
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  #125  
Old 06-06-2011, 07:57 PM
VTHokiesDuckHunter VTHokiesDuckHunter is offline
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Default Finish on a 4014

I was told the finish on some 3rd gen's is actually a Melonite finish. Does anyone know what was used on the 4014?

In a letter from S&W that was posted on these forums about the 4014, it only mentioned Alloy frame, stainless slide and "blued finish"
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  #126  
Old 06-10-2011, 10:10 PM
S&W10MM1026 S&W10MM1026 is offline
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I heard that they WVSP was going to S&W M&P 45s. I guess they changed their minds. Is WV carrying 4566's or 4506's?
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  #127  
Old 06-11-2011, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
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I heard that they WVSP was going to S&W M&P 45s. I guess they changed their minds. Is WV carrying 4566's or 4506's?
WVSP carries 4566's w/ Streamlight M3's.


Interesting that they are considering M&P's again. They tested them a few years ago, but didn't care for them. Personally, whenever WVSP finally does switch it will be for a polymer framed pistol, IMO. They're cheaper and manufacturers are pushing hard to sell them.
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  #128  
Old 06-11-2011, 01:45 PM
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Those are a sweet pistola...had one, sold it...regretted it...
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  #129  
Old 06-23-2011, 01:37 AM
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Any updates?
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:15 AM
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Early 3rd Gen pistols, ending in xxx4 or xxx5 were simply blued carbon steel. The bluing wore easily in a holster.

Early attempts to blacken the stainless xxx6 models included Black-T and another baked on finish. Neither was acceptable for hard use (cosmetically).

Melonite appears to be the best answer, and numerous experimental 3rd Gen models have turned up during in recent years. The first run was the non-TSW 4566's from about 10 years ago. I believe this led to Melonite being chosen for the M&P series.

I have had it applied to several slides, frames and barrels with excellent results. It really likes stainless. Below are some pics. I don't know of anyone applying it to small parts. Possibly because of the size, but mostly because of the metallurgy.

Stainless Beretta slide with Melonite:


Carbon steel Beretta slide with Melonite:


Stainless Barrel:


Factory 5946


Aftermarket 4586TSW


Aftermarket 4553TSW slide (black anodized frame)
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  #131  
Old 06-23-2011, 07:30 PM
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Why would you want to cover up a beautiful stainless finish with a blued/black finish? Every gun I have ever had with a blued or blacked out finish shows wear after a short time where stainless may show a few "beauty marks" if you closely scrutinize it but otherwise it always takes my and others breath away when I behold it.
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Old 06-24-2011, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargeyork View Post
Why would you want to cover up a beautiful stainless finish with a blued/black finish? Every gun I have ever had with a blued or blacked out finish shows wear after a short time where stainless may show a few "beauty marks" if you closely scrutinize it but otherwise it always takes my and others breath away when I behold it.
I also like the bead blasted stainless steel. I have a several 3rd gens with other finishes.The bead blasted stainless works for me.


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  #133  
Old 06-26-2011, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Nagel View Post
Well I just read on Glock Talk forum in the "Cop Talk" section that WV State Police are dumping the 4566TSW's! Apparently they are going with the 4th generation Glock 21's. Why can't S&W get it ? That the 3rd generation 45's are still in demand, not everybody wants a plastic pistol, I guess the M&P 45 wasn't good enough, I to prefer the Glock to the M&P but like the 4506 myself as a duty weapon. I guess Glock gets another contract.
I do not know a single person in position to know anything about handgun selection in eastern states.

I DO know about Glock websites. You can hear anything but a good prayer there. They are so focused on their beloved Glocks that they cannot believe other guns exist. I am a member of Glock Talk and threads about Glock contracts have proven wrong many times. According to them, the Louisiana State Police were issued new Glocks recently on a major contract. NOT. LASP stopped using Glocks long ago and have no intention of returning to them.

Not putting Glocks down because they do work when they are not going K-Boom. They are also ugly, heavy, not ergonomically correct for human wrist/hands and are virtually impossible to be tested ballistically to see what gun fired what round.

S&W also makes some ugly guns, in part to people thinking black plastic gun ownership makes them SWAT or tactical guns and creates a market. Thankfully most of their guns are still beautiful works of art with fine tooling. S&W is picking up a good number of agencies to supply sidearms and that number is growing.
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  #134  
Old 06-26-2011, 11:36 AM
VTHokiesDuckHunter VTHokiesDuckHunter is offline
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Oldman (but wise man) says:

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S&W also makes some ugly guns, in part to people thinking black plastic gun ownership makes them SWAT or tactical guns and creates a market. Thankfully most of their guns are still beautiful works of art with fine tooling. S&W is picking up a good number of agencies to supply sidearms and that number is growing.
+1

In fact, black guns are not necessarily smarter from a concealment standpoint.

There are few black objects in nature. Snipers for years have been painting their guns in earth tones. Smart gun makers, like FN (parent company of Browning) are turning out more and more of their military guns in brown earth colors.

While this has little to do with what guns LE officers use, it does point out how ridiculous some of the current "tactical" craze has gotten, and how some shooters really look like posers instead of Sportsmen.

For Home Defense, I use what is on hand- either a Stainless or Blackened metal S&W pistol, or one of my hunting shotguns with good old blued metal. There's nothing inherently wrong with a good synthetic stocked shotgun or for that matter pistol, but definitely nothing superior to them either.

If I was going to get a polymer framed pistol, it would most likely be a Walther PPS, because it is very slim, well made, and nice ergonomically, or i'd be looking at the FN's. Well made, available in earth tones, and with classic and proven features including hammers and lanyard rings.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:17 PM
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I finally got my WV State Police 4566 today,it's in really great shape.The one my buddy bought has a little more wear on it,but it's still in good shape.I'll put some Pic's up if anyone wants to see what the WVSP 4566's look like.And the new Black 4566's they have are pretty nice,but I like the one I have compared to the new all Black ones.
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Old 07-10-2011, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by VTHokiesDuckHunter View Post
While this has little to do with what guns LE officers use, it does point out how ridiculous some of the current "tactical" craze has gotten, and how some shooters really look like posers instead of Sportsmen...
Tacticool is atleast accepted when the wife sees you standing in the mirror wearing the bulletproof vest you've bought online. Better then being caught wearing the wife's dress...not by much...so I heard.
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Old 07-11-2011, 07:50 PM
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I was given my old 4566 upon retirement a couple years ago. I just never warmed up to it. Being sentimental, I've hung on to it. It was perhaps just a bit more ergo-friendly than the previous, which was the 1076. Kept that one 'cause I'm a fan of the cartridge. (Even though I much prefer my S/S Delta Elite)

Guess I'm just too much a hardcore 1911 guy.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:01 PM
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Old Corp, are you retired Raleigh PD? I wasn't aware of any other NC agencies carrying the 10mm and if so did not realize that they carried the 4566 before moving on to the M&P.


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I was given my old 4566 upon retirement a couple years ago. I just never warmed up to it. Being sentimental, I've hung on to it. It was perhaps just a bit more ergo-friendly than the previous, which was the 1076. Kept that one 'cause I'm a fan of the cartridge. (Even though I much prefer my S/S Delta Elite)

Guess I'm just too much a hardcore 1911 guy.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:35 AM
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Old Corp, are you retired Raleigh PD? I wasn't aware of any other NC agencies carrying the 10mm and if so did not realize that they carried the 4566 before moving on to the M&P.
Yep, you pegged it. Actually we had both the 4566 as well as the CS45. I had both, the CS while a Detective and eventually went to the 4566 in my last few years in uniform. I did not want to recieve the CS upon retirement and preferred the 4566.

I did get the opportunity to help test/eval the M&P while they were considering it for the new duty weapon. I was impressed with it's performance.

BTW - after S&W stopped normal production of the 4566, they continued to offer the model for sale to agencies such as ours - but the real problem became price. A large agency such as ours would be paying over $700 per copy. Just doesn't make sense to continue it after awhile, especially when approached with a real 'deal' to move on to a newer, less expensive model.
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:43 AM
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Old Corp was the deal free M&P's and holsters in exchange for the 4566's and CS45's?

That was the deal S&W was pushing locally. Regards 18DAI.
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:51 AM
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Old Corp was the deal free M&P's and holsters in exchange for the 4566's and CS45's?

That was the deal S&W was pushing locally. Regards 18DAI.
I don't recall the actual arrangement. I do know that it was very lucrative. IIRC, the 4566's were offerred for sale to any of the guys that wanted them for aound $350 or so.... Many did not buy.

For the new troops coming along, the duty belt has grown so much as far as equipment and weight, the savings in ounces from a full size S/S duty gun was appreciated.
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Old 07-13-2011, 05:03 PM
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Default New 4566's

Being my first post to this forum, thought I would pass along some info on new 4566's I saw in a store here locally. All dressed in black and ready to pack to the range!
Been reading this forum for awhile now, and found the information outstanding! Thanks
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by oldman45 View Post
They are so focused on their beloved Glocks that they cannot believe other guns exist. Not putting Glocks down because they do work when they are not going K-Boom. They are also ugly, heavy, not ergonomically correct for human wrist/hands and are virtually impossible to be tested ballistically to see what gun fired what round.
Well, with all due respect, I am a member of Glocktalk & other forums that tend to deal with Glocks & polymer guns. I do not see the bias that you say you encounter on a regular basis. In fact, I see far more bias in your statements than I see in most Glock owners statements towards S&W metal framed guns & the traditional 1911 guns. I own several Glocks & carry one daily. I also own several S&W handguns and love them as well. I am currently looking at a S&W 1911 as my next purchase. You on the other hand seem to abhor Glocks & other polymer guns & my guess is you would never own one. That would make whom biased towards a certain type of gun? Biased is as biased does my grandmother used to say. (OK, she never said that, but I saw Forrest Gump the other night & I can't get the "stupid is as stupid does" thing out of my mind.)

As to the other posters who are calling polymer gun owners "posers" & "tacticool" simply because they choose to carry a polymer gun such as a Glock or an M&P, I don't get it. I carry a Glock 27 because it is the most fire power I can find in a gun that I can totally conceal with summer wear, it's light enough that it won't pull my pants down to my knees & was offered at a price that I could live with. Oh, & it is one of the most reliable guns on the market. That is my choice for those reasons. How does that make me a poser or tacticool? I've carried for years and for the most part, the gunowners I encounter are not trying to be cool or pretend to be officers. They are concerned with the safety of themselves & their families. There seems to be a pervasive attitude by some, who look down on gun owners who own the guns they deem to be inferior & that says volumes to me.

Last edited by ET.; 07-13-2011 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:32 AM
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I'm confused now, did the WVSP get S&W to make them new 4566's ?
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by turnejm View Post
Being my first post to this forum, thought I would pass along some info on new 4566's I saw in a store here locally. All dressed in black and ready to pack to the range!
Been reading this forum for awhile now, and found the information outstanding! Thanks
Let me be the first to say welcome to the forum.
The 4566's are a mighty fine firearm.
Regards,
BM1
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by turnejm View Post
Being my first post to this forum, thought I would pass along some info on new 4566's I saw in a store here locally. All dressed in black and ready to pack to the range!
Been reading this forum for awhile now, and found the information outstanding! Thanks


Someone's been to CTD I see
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Old 07-18-2011, 04:07 AM
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So are the "new" black 4566's available locally for sale? If so, what is the name of the gun store as I would be interested in getting one?
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:25 AM
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I recently saw a West Virginia Trooper, it appeared he had a black S&W pistol in his holster, it looked like a 4566 from the profile, he was working a crash so I didn't bother him.

Anyone else no the status?
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by oldman45 View Post
I do not know a single person in position to know anything about handgun selection in eastern states.

I DO know about Glock websites. You can hear anything but a good prayer there. They are so focused on their beloved Glocks that they cannot believe other guns exist. I am a member of Glock Talk and threads about Glock contracts have proven wrong many times. According to them, the Louisiana State Police were issued new Glocks recently on a major contract. NOT. LASP stopped using Glocks long ago and have no intention of returning to them.

Not putting Glocks down because they do work when they are not going K-Boom. They are also ugly, heavy, not ergonomically correct for human wrist/hands and are virtually impossible to be tested ballistically to see what gun fired what round.

S&W also makes some ugly guns, in part to people thinking black plastic gun ownership makes them SWAT or tactical guns and creates a market. Thankfully most of their guns are still beautiful works of art with fine tooling. S&W is picking up a good number of agencies to supply sidearms and that number is growing.
What is the Louisana State Police Carrying, I was recently in New Orleans and chatting guns with a State Trooper, he was carrying a Glock 22RTF, he told me they had ditched the Sig P220's for all Glocks!
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ET. View Post
As to the other posters who are calling polymer gun owners "posers" & "tacticool" simply because they choose to carry a polymer gun such as a Glock or an M&P, I don't get it.
There is nothing to get except some significant gun snobbery sliceable by brand on one axis, by frame material on a second, and often caliber on a third.

This reminds me of a friend I have who claims that all good music was made before 1974. Those of us 20 years his junior laugh at his eccentricism, which grows to howls when others in his cohort agree with him. Actually, we only laugh because it fits his personality so well. Otherwise, we'd roll our eyes at another curmudgeon who seems stuck in his 20's, which is what happens when many of us read similar content on this site about polymer-framed, striker-fired guns chambered in anything except .45. Sure, I loved (and still love) hair metal, but I'm not so stuck as to think there is no good rock n' roll being produced today.

Lots of us own and carry polymer-framed guns. I didn't choose my CC gun based on how it looks; aesthetics of a concealed gun are pointless. Similarly, choosing your CC gun because of the material in the frame is equally pointless, unless you want to shed several ounces of weight which does not contribute to the structure of the gun, in which case plastic has a clear advantage. And I definitely don't care what somebody else thinks of my choice. I'd never even considered "tacticool" until I read it in this thread. And poser (sic)? Let's see... practice with the gun... care for the gun... carry the gun... will use the gun in the statistically improbable event that circumstances require it. I don't see what makes such a person a poseur, unless I add some astigmatism to account for frame material and caliber. Oh, wait... (reaches for a pair of Snobopticas with triple axis astigmatism correction -- tinted in rose, of course.) Ah yes, now I see it for the nonsense it is.

Mind you, I'm not railing on personal preference. Everybody has it. Some prefer metal guns; some think plastic is equally suitable. I'm railing on the snobs, those who think that everybody should agree with them based on phantoms they call facts.

I'd like to have one of these 3rd gens because I'd like to own it and shoot it, and because it would be an interesting comparison to my M&P. Had I not just acquired a gun, I might ask the better half if I could get one.

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