Hello,

Just fired my new smith and wesson chief special 45. First magazine load did not give me malfunctions, but the succeeding magazines have failure to return to battery malfunctions. What would be the cause of this?

I observed that the spring of the magazine is a little tight, is this a cause for concern?

Please help me...thank you

1st, is the new to you pistol and mags properly cleaned and lubed? 2nd, I'd shoot the good mag a bunch of times, to make sure it's not the gun thats giving you problems. That way you can narrow it down to the mags. (mark them somehow).Take apart the mags and check for damage or just debris that got in there. Just my 2 cents, but a good place to start... Good luck with your new CS. I have a CS9, and I love it!

While I'd certainly clean the gun and magazines ... making sure the magazines are clean and DRY, but the gun itself properly lubricated ... how experienced are you when it comes to shooting diminutive .45 pistols, and what ammunition are you using?

Dirty magazines, or magazines which contain residual goo from the factory shipping oil (which can congeal and make sludge), can contribute to feeding & chambering issues. If the "timing" of a round being fed into the chamber is "off" it can lead to stoppages, including failures-to-return-to-battery. (So can a dirty and improperly lubricated gun, at some point. You guess the point at which this may happen.)

Low power ammunition (and even over-powered ammunition) can contribute to this, as well, though. Slide travel and velocity during its travel/cycling.

Then there's the potential for a shooter grip issue to induce feeding issues. In particular, an unlocked wrist and "too relaxed" of a grip can sometimes cause this sort of thing to happen. An improperly supported pistol may experience issues when the slide velocity and travel (length of the slide's run to the rear) are affected by an unstable "grip technique". Or, put another way, a frame which is insufficiently supported by the stability of the shooter's grip can "rob" power from the recoil spring's ability to properly move the slide at the right velocity, and far enough in its rearward travel, to allow it to exhibit optimal feeding/chambering.

Then, there's the consideration that shortened .45's with reduced slide mass, shortened slide run and increased slide velocities are generally considered more sensitive to shooter & ammunition influences ... and more easily adversely affected by both ammunition and shooter grip influences ... compared to larger .45 platforms.

I was called to inspect a CS45 which was reported to be constantly experiencing feeding stoppages. Nothing appeared obviously wrong with the gun or mags, although the recoil and mag springs were becoming a bit light in tension. The gun ran just fine, though, even when used with some "low cost/contract" 230gr JHP loads ... in my hands. I had a couple of the other instructors try it and they had no problems, either ... until I instructed them to deliberately relax the firmness of their grip a bit, and "unlock" their wrists ... while I observed ... at which point they could make it experience a feeding stoppage, virtually "on demand".

I cleaned and lubricated the gun, and installed new springs (since I had some at that time), and told them to return the gun to the owner and discuss the importance of a solid, proper grip when shooting itty bitty .45's.

Now, on the other hand, I recently had a guy qualify with a CS45 he's owned for a little over 10 years. He's not what many folks on this forum might consider to be a "gun enthusiast", and he apparently doesn't take the time to do a lot of practice, but he's more interested in his abilities than the majority of cops I've seen and demonstrates pretty decent skills and ability.

His CS45 didn't miss a beat when he used it. I was talking to him afterward and learned that he hadn't replaced either the recoil or mag springs in his personally-owned CS45 since he'd bought it. (The factory recommendation is every 5 years or every 5,000 rounds, and I prefer to err on the conservative side of things when it comes to the littler guns with short recoil springs and faster cycling, myself. )

Apparently, his good grip and attention to utilizing proper shooting skills, as well as keeping the gun clean and lubricated, helped him avoid experiencing functioning issues even with his aging springs. (He was also shooting the issued 230gr JHP's, which are a "premium line" made by one of the major American ammo companies, and using good ammo doesn't hurt.) I strongly recommended he order new recoil & mag springs, which he promised to do.

Now, even a shooter who has a decent solid grip, and properly locks his/her wrist, can become fatigued when shooting ... and especially when shooting the harder recoiling little guns. If this occurs just enough to impair the quality and stability of the shooter's grip, it might be just enough to affect the cycling & functioning of the little .45's ... anybody's little .45 models.

The smaller the .45 model becomes, the more important it becomes to use good quality, fresh factory ammunition and pay attention to grip technique.

Oh yeah, and the "tightness" you feel in the "mag spring" is likely due to the extra set of indentations used in the CS45 mags, at the bottom/rear edge of the standard lip impressions on each side, which are needed to keep the top round from being displaced from the mag lips under the heavier recoil of the little gun. If you eventually determine that a specific mag is connected to the feeding issues (after examining and eliminating cleanliness, lubrication, ammo quality and shooter-related grip issues), I'd call the factory and ask for a new mag under warranty. It's not unknown to have a mag sometimes slip through which might offer less than desired feeding and functioning (or which might have suffered some sort of damage, especially if it's a used gun).

Just my thoughts. Obviously I can't be there to see you shoot the CS45 or examine the gun & mags, so I can't know what's involved in your particular case.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Are you sure they are the correct magazines? The cs45 requires a special magazine designed for them. If this is a used "new" pistol make sure the mags have a small indention just below the top round, if it is used someone may have used a standard s&w mag.
A standard mag fits just fine they just won't work properly. Just checking?

Good thought. Just in case you bought the gun used, the following image shows the difference (on the top of the mag body) between the regular 6, 7 & 8-rd S&W 3rd gen .45 mags (on left) and the CS45 6-rd mags (on right). If any of your mags lack the small vertical, slightly rearward angled indentation above the top witness hole in each side of the mag, it's not a CS45 mag. Non-CS45 mags can cause feeding problems because they don't hold the top round under the same pressure as the mags with the extra set of tight indentations (which can allow the top round to be displaced at the wrong time for proper feeding, and even sometimes allow live-round ejection during recoil - when the fired round's recoil let's the next round slip free of the lips and follow the fired case out the ejection port).

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Thank you everyone for the insights(especially fastbolt). The unit is brand new; and so are the magazines. This is my first time to shoot a 45 calibre pistol. I think my grip on this pistol needs a firmer grip. I will shoot it tomorrow (Sunday), and give you guys an update.

A good place to start would be to make sure you're standing leaning a little forward (not leaning back, in other words), with maybe your weak-side foot slightly forward, using a reasonably firm 2-handed grip (not a death grip) and locking both wrists (so the recoil is absorbed by your arms and shoulders, not by your hands loosening or your wrists flexing when firing).

It helps to have the gun adequately lubricated - a good drop rubbed all around the forward/round part of the barrel, forward of the barrel hood (especially toward the muzzle bell), a small drop at the front of the barrel hood/slide ejection port junture (on top of the hood, when the slide & barrel are fully forward in-battery), a couple of drops on the tops & sides of the frame rails at the front (and also onto the lower front reduced size rails on the frame's dustcover), and a small drop on each side of the hammer, at the base where it moves/rubs within the frame (but don't overdo this drop, so it doesn't run off the hammer and end up elsewhere).

Mags clean & DRY. Might as well make sure the mag springs and followers are installed correctly. A few of us have found some brand new factory assembled .45 mags have had their springs installed either upside or backwards ... or both ... which doesn't help with feeding. (Someone assembling them in Parts is obviously mixed up.) I've even found someone had laboriously installed the mag butt plate onto the small round coil (this plate should be installed on the bottom of the spring, at the rear of the long bottom coil), and then had put the spring in upside down.

The 3rd gen .45 mag spring has a small circular coil located on the "top", and it should be at the front of the follower, facing "forward" (visible through the slide stop tab cutout in the left side of the mag body).

Here's what the follower & mag spring look like when disassembled, with the "front" of each facing left.


Here's an assembled .45 mag. You can't see it from this angle, but if you looked "up" into the cutout you'd be able to see you're looking at the small round coil (not the front of the large bottom coil).


Use good quality ammunition (not reloads, unknown gunshop/gunshow reloads, etc). It's usually a safe bet to use one of the 5 or 6 major American ammo company products.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

just checked all my mags and they are installed backwards too. is this correct that the round circle part of the spring goes up ?? how is it that s&w put there product together incorrectly??

I don't know how they managed to get someone (if it's only one someone) who assembled so many magazines incorrectly. Maybe it's the lowest paid hourly entry job in the parts dept. It might also have something to do with the fact that the .45 mag spring has a unique shape for the top coil compared to most other springs. The rest of them have a 'normal' coil winding at the top (although some are shorter than others, or have a bend in them, like the 4013/14TSW springs).

I've pulled many .45 magazines from the case of magazines we received as our last order and only found a relatively small number of them assembled incorrectly as far as the spring being in upside down & backwards. The great majority of them have been put together fine.

On the other hand, I've also come across instances where a small number of our folks have taken apart magazines for cleaning and reassembled them incorrectly, too. At least a couple of them have also installed the follower backwards in mags.

The small round coil needs to be at the front, on top, so it can provide the most frontal lift to the follower. If the spring is installed upside down, the small coil doesn't do any good being at the bottom. It can't provide that extra little bit of frontal lift to the follower by being at the bottom of the winding stack, and backwards.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I just received 2 for my 4516-1 from S&W a couple weeks ago. Both had springs in backwards and upside down. No biggy.

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Is it safe?

Just came back from the range. As per FASTBOLT's advice, gave the CS45 a good firm grip; did not experience FAILURE TO FEED even once. Thank you everyone.

Good for you!! It's depressing/discouraging, when something
you had such hopes for isn't working right. TACC1

Last fall I picked up a CS45 new in the box. Both mags had the springs in upside down. Haven't shot it as much as I would like, because of the weather, however it has functioned perfectly. Love this gun. Recently got a 3rd mag sold as new and it looked it. This spring was also upside down. The floorplate catch which goes between the spring and the floorplate is plastic. In the mags that came with the gun this peice is metal. Has anyone else found this? Thinking maybe I should replace it. Would like to get 3 more mags. Wondering what they will have metal or plastic? Also where would the best place be to get a spare recoil spring and some spare mag springs?

De nada. Glad to hear it. Sometimes it just comes down to the fact that the smaller the .45 platform, apparently the more sensitive they can be to shooter & ammo-related influences.

There was a period when S&W was using plastic mag catch plates in the .45's. I still have some extras from that time. Ditto the part being plastic in 3913 & CS9 mags for a while, too.

I never received a definitive answer when I once asked for an explanation for the difference in using metal or plastic butt plate catches, but I could see it being for either a vendor supply consideration, or the company realizing that a lot of owners/users probably wouldn't be able to recognize how the butt plate catch is supposed to be oriented and installed unless it was attached to the spring. I can say that I've had folks at the cleaning station sometimes stymied when the metal catches fell off a spring during cleaning they needed help in order to get it reattached to the spring and installed properly. I could see how a separate plastic piece could be lost more easily, too.

I order my replacement recoil & mag springs from S&W, myself.

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I just fired my brand new CS-45 2 weeks ago and i shot 250 rounds without any malfunctions, when my Son shot the gun he limp wristed it and did not have a locked arm and he had several malfunctions.

I did find 2 of the mag springs were inserted wrong prior to shooting. someone must have been sleeping in 1999 on the mag assembly line ahahahah

Enjoy your gun. Mine is at Walter Birdsong's for the Green-T finish with Black-T controls will post pictures when she arrives in a week or two. also am installing XS Big Dot sights and Big Dog full size Grips.

Sounds like it'll be an interesting combination when it returns from being finished.

I've had a couple of sight combinations on my own CS45 over the years, with the longest running one being an early set of Ashley Express Big Dot sights. It has the front night and the rear painted stripe. The Big dot sights are very fast and easy to see, and work fairly well at close ranges, but they become a bit slower to use at increasing distance for precision shots. Transitioning to the top of the fat Big Dot for the POI, while keeping the bottom of the Big Dot aligned on top of the vertical stripe (pumpkin on a fence post) just takes a bit longer once you get out at longer distances.

I've left them on the gun for several years, so I must find them a good compromise.

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Good to hear. I was trying to replace my 3rd gen S&W's after a burglary last month and found a brand new CS45 and 457S in a little gun shop in MA. I had to pay about $600 each but I was glad to find them. I took the 457S to the range last week and fired 175 rounds of mixed ball and HP without a hiccup. Yesterday I put 150 rounds of ball and HP through the CS45, and again, not one problem. My current production M&P's, SIG's and HK's are just as reliable, but I really love these all metal S&W's.

Hello and welcome.You first must make sure you are using the correct magazines.The CS45 mags have a cut in grove @ the top of the mag in order for it to hold in place using this short 45.Next this is likely to happen if the shooter isn't holding the gun tight while firing AKA "Limp Wristing".Finnally every 3 or so K rounds you should replace the recoil spring.....Mike

I just checked the mags on my new CS45 and both were upside down. I changed them and they work better. Before they were very stiff almost too much so. When I flipped them around they worked a bit smoother. The Gun didnt seem to mind though. Both range trips have gone without a hitch. Thanks for the heads up on the mag springs. The sights on my CS45 are Novaks.