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Old 04-15-2011, 05:26 PM
Outrider Outrider is offline
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Default Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s?

Note: This is an out-take from the West Virginia State troopers keeping their S&W 4566s thread.

18DAI noted that Glock 21s appear to have a design flaw that causes them to not fire with disturbing regularity.

I'm not a Glock lover or hater -- but this question seemed appropriate to start another thread.

NOTE: I am NOT looking to start a brawl. I'm just looking for a clearcut answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
...I would be VERY reluctant to stake my life on a Glock 21. Too much history of that model occasionally failing to go bang. Design flaw that evidently NOBODY talks about. Regards 18DAI.
What's the design flaw?

Let's talk about this!

I don't prefer Glocks -- but would own a 21SF 4th gen -- or a 20SF 4th gen -- as well as the 29 and 30.

So what RELIABLE documentation exists on this? Links would be appreciated!

Will a titanium striker fix it?

I've seen a second gen Glock 20 that wouldn't fire because of light strikes -- but it had oil, goop and gunk around the striker and channel.

I'd like to know the story -- and we can start a new thread if needed.

In most cases, I'd prefer a 4566 or 4506 -- but I can see some cases where I'd go with a Glock -- although not lovingly.

I'm still not sold on the M&P myself -- although I WANT to believe!

Last edited by Outrider; 04-16-2011 at 12:57 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-15-2011, 05:46 PM
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Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s?  
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For the most part Glocks run fairly reliably...With heavy use debris can accumilate inside a striker channel. Pieces of plated primer flaking off, powder residue, dust and dirt.

There was some talk about the use of accessories, lights and lazers on the accessory rail which caused flexing of the rail which caused it to rub against the slides. Not sure if this was over tightening of the accessory issue.
I have not used any accessories yet on the Glock 29, so this has not generated any problems like mentioned above.

I'm not in LE but i communicate thru various mediums discussing firearms ammunition and handloading for all sorts of firearms. I will say that I'm not an expert by no means, however I try to educate myself just because...I suppose that is why I am looking at this particular thread.

I have the 3rd gen 10xx series 10mm pistols which have run flawlessly since 1990 and the Glock 29 has also run equally as well. Both the S&W 1006 and the Glock 29 have digested the powerfull 10mm ammo, as well as 40S&W using conversion barrels and even the 9x25 Dlillon conversion.
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Old 04-15-2011, 07:24 PM
badguybuster badguybuster is offline
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Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s?  
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I carried a 21 on my first LEO duty. It never failed to fire for me but some fellas had a serious issue with limp wristing them. Other than that I didnt know of any problems. That being said, I hate plastic guns!!! Never developed a liking for it.
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:53 PM
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Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s?  
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It's not "18DAI's Glock 21 design flaw", its the Glock 21's firing pin design flaw - as you evidently already know based on your post in my thread.

But - "your not looking to start a brawl.."

Google is your friend. Use it. Nice that you started your own thread rather than taking a dump in the WVSP thread.
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:50 PM
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Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s?  
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the dept I work for issues G21s.

I recently got them to turn in 19 year old 2nd Gen G21s which some were not passing the safety checks due to wear.

I am not sure what issue you speak of exactly but I have seen misfires with Glock 21 with a slow controlled press and the same gun will fire with a hammer stroke of the trigger.

the firing pin safety actuator on the trigger bar is not timed correctly and not moving it out of the way or there was some frames with higher set slide tabs in the frame which made the slide higher and of course the same misfire would occur with a controlled press of the trigger.

Glocks fix was the plus trigger bar which I was told originally had a taller firing pin safety actuator but at a recent recert...I was told that was not correct.

We recently had a few G21s with TLR1s start to slide lock back prematurely with Gold Dot 230s. some did not and these were either 3rd Gen G21s. A newer SF with a TLR1 ran ok.

I carry 1911, but if they make me park my personal....I will carry the G21SF or my G35 on duty.
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Old 04-16-2011, 12:13 AM
remat457 remat457 is offline
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Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s?  
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I am not versed in that part of the WVSP thread mentioned but if interested in some negative experience with the GL21 you might Google Portland PD's experience. Please note I am not saying they are good or bad, but my 21 never comes out the safe--I just prefer to shoot my 3rd gens
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Old 04-16-2011, 10:48 AM
Outrider Outrider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
It's not "18DAI's Glock 21 design flaw", its the Glock 21's firing pin design flaw - as you evidently already know based on your post in my thread.

But - "your not looking to start a brawl.."

Google is your friend. Use it. Nice that you started your own thread rather than taking a dump in the WVSP thread.
And a glorious good morning to you too!

You're the first one I've ever heard say the Glock 21 had a design flaw -- it was your post -- and you made the statement.

What should I have said? I mean, seriously. It wasn't anything against you in anyway.

If anything, you're the one who dumped on THIS thread. I was just quoting you.

I simply want to know what the problem with the pistol is -- and whether it affects other Glocks or MPs.

Are you saying the striker channel accumulating gunk IS the design flaw?

If so, that would have done just fine.

(Oddly enough, Googlng the question brings up this forum. That's why I asked here -- as in straight to the source.)

Last edited by Outrider; 04-16-2011 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 04-16-2011, 12:52 PM
Outrider Outrider is offline
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Default Does titanium striker help?

Does an aftermarket titanium striker help solve problems with the Glock 21?

In designing the M&P .45, how did Smith approach or address the problem of gunk in striker channels -- presuming Smith took a different route than Glock did?
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Old 04-16-2011, 01:58 PM
pedropcola pedropcola is offline
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I got rid of my 21 merely because it was too thick for my hands. It "appeared" to have the same internals and striker that my 19 and 34 have. I have heard of the unsupported chamber before but never that they wouldn't go boom, one way or the other. Based on my 19/34 and 21 experience I wouldn't hesitate to buy another glock. Would love to see some links to data on these "design flaws" because I am not sure I understand what the actual issue is.
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Old 04-16-2011, 09:46 PM
Triggerman66 Triggerman66 is offline
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Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s? Glock 21 design flaw vs. M&P 45s?  
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My understanding of the lite strike issue is that Glock fixed it by extending the length of the trigger bar to push the firing pin further to the rear. Therefore compressing the firing pin spring and increasing the strike force in the 3rd gen models. The trigger bar part number is followed by a -1 or 2 indicating the added lenght. This was addressed in a Glock forum at another site.
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