Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols Other Smith & Wesson Semi-Automatic Pistols from the 1950's to Present


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-17-2011, 11:25 PM
625smith's Avatar
625smith 625smith is offline
SWCA Member
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 2,423
Liked 2,649 Times in 595 Posts
Thumbs up 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21

Here is my 39 no dash S/N 108919 Illinois State Police pistol. Now I need to find an extractor. Over all in pretty good condition for being a duty pistol. Anyone able to give a date of manufacture?







I got to shoot my 39 ISP today. Here are the results. Fired 18 rounds @ 10 yards. Sighted center mass. My reloads 125gr LRN, 3.9gr W231, Winchester cases.


Last edited by 625smith; 02-17-2018 at 12:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #2  
Old 08-18-2011, 02:46 PM
FirebirdV8's Avatar
FirebirdV8 FirebirdV8 is offline
SWCA Member
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 61
Liked 186 Times in 80 Posts
Default

Is the extractor broken, or do you just want a spare for it? The extractor on that Mod 39 doesn't look broken (of course that doesn't mean its not), it is just the intermediate style used late in the No Dash production. It is similar to the 39-2 style extractor, just bigger. S&W put it out to appease those complaining about the long style extractor until the 39-2 came out.

Anyway, it looks like you have a nice Mod 39 there. Enjoy it.
__________________
J.D. Roy
Member #2308
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 08-18-2011, 03:34 PM
jdh's Avatar
jdh jdh is offline
US Veteran
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 51
Liked 780 Times in 360 Posts
Default

I don't think that gap in the extractor about the middle of the cocking serrations is supposed to be there.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-18-2011, 07:41 PM
FirebirdV8's Avatar
FirebirdV8 FirebirdV8 is offline
SWCA Member
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 61
Liked 186 Times in 80 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdh View Post
I don't think that gap in the extractor about the middle of the cocking serrations is supposed to be there.
I'm not saying that it isn't broken, I am saying that the quick fix that S&W put on the ISP long extractor looks exactly the same as that. Due to the failure of some of their pistols the ISP wanted S&W to make an immediate fix to the 39's they were receiving, so a spring loaded half extractor was fitted into the slide with the back half being just a blanking panel. If this is one of those models (the SN is in the right range for this feature), it isn't broken.
__________________
J.D. Roy
Member #2308
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 08-18-2011, 07:59 PM
Goony's Avatar
Goony Goony is offline
SWCA Member
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,446
Likes: 236
Liked 543 Times in 205 Posts
Default

The ISP was a pioneer in the adoption of the 9mm for duty carry, so it's extremely neat to have found one of those old warriors. I believe that property stamping was done by the factory. It's a pretty late in the Model 39 serial number sequence, so probably dates to around 1969. Very cool gun, thanks for sharing it with us.
__________________
SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 08-18-2011, 08:22 PM
BruceB's Avatar
BruceB BruceB is offline
US Veteran
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Des Moines WA
Posts: 831
Likes: 248
Liked 466 Times in 230 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdV8 View Post
I'm not saying that it isn't broken, I am saying that the quick fix that S&W put on the ISP long extractor looks exactly the same as that. Due to the failure of some of their pistols the ISP wanted S&W to make an immediate fix to the 39's they were receiving, so a spring loaded half extractor was fitted into the slide with the back half being just a blanking panel. If this is one of those models (the SN is in the right range for this feature), it isn't broken.
Very interesting. I have seen other pictures of 39 no-dash pistols with that strange line on the extractor and always assumed it was broken or cracked. By that time in the production the slide serrations had moved forward as well.

Did those late 39 no-dash examples have the newer 5 land barrel rifling?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-18-2011, 08:55 PM
FirebirdV8's Avatar
FirebirdV8 FirebirdV8 is offline
SWCA Member
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 61
Liked 186 Times in 80 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
Very interesting. I have seen other pictures of 39 no-dash pistols with that strange line on the extractor and always assumed it was broken or cracked. By that time in the production the slide serrations had moved forward as well.

Did those late 39 no-dash examples have the newer 5 land barrel rifling?
I thought that same thing when I first saw one, but then I learned about the history of the ISP pistols. They were the first ones to discover that a heavily fired 39 no dash extractor was a weak point. They basically told S&W to fix it or go fly a kite, so they fixed it with a really wide version of the extractor coming out with the 39-2. On a side note I also realized through some limited metal work experience that metal rarely, if ever, breaks so nicely and cleanly in a straight line like that. Notice that there is also some spring tension holding the rear of the extractor, by the line, up. If it was a broken normal style no dash extractor it would be flopping around and not staying up on its own like that.

My research on the barrels is a less detailed, since most people don't show pictures of their barrels. However, from what I can tell, the higher twist rate rifling was maintained through around A250000, well into the -2 series before they switched to the new style barrel. It was probably just an economic choice for S&W. They ordered a large lot of the older style barrels so they didn't have to keep ordering them, and realized some bullet weights don't like the higher twist rate. So the new and old style barrels are intermixed throughout 39-2 production. So, in other words I don't know what kind of barrel any given 39/39-2 will have, but I can make an educated guess based on what I have seen.
__________________
J.D. Roy
Member #2308

Last edited by FirebirdV8; 08-18-2011 at 09:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 08-18-2011, 09:04 PM
BruceB's Avatar
BruceB BruceB is offline
US Veteran
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Des Moines WA
Posts: 831
Likes: 248
Liked 466 Times in 230 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdV8 View Post
I thought that same thing when I first saw one, but then I learned about the history of the ISP pistols. They were the first ones to discover that a heavily fired 39 no dash extractor was a weak point. They basically told S&W to fix it or go fly a kite, so they fixed it with a really wide version of the extractor coming out with the 39-2.
It's interesting that the "fix" was a short, wide extractor, but then they went to a narrow extractor on the 39-2 model.

Didn't the short-wide extractor end up on some of the second-gen pistols, like the 439 or 539 ? They must have found some ISP spares laying around

At the risk of totally hi-jacking this thread, my 39 no-dash 316xx has a slide stop lever that sticks out of the frame on the right side well past the vertical plane of the slide, but the 39-2 is pretty much even with the edge of the slide. Is that normal, or do I have an improper replacement in the 39 ?

Back on topic - nice ISP 39 ! I doubt I'll ever run across one of those way out here in the upper left corner, but it's something I look for.

Last edited by BruceB; 08-18-2011 at 09:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-18-2011, 09:17 PM
FirebirdV8's Avatar
FirebirdV8 FirebirdV8 is offline
SWCA Member
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 61
Liked 186 Times in 80 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
It's interesting that the "fix" was a short, wide extractor, but then they went to a narrow extractor on the 39-2 model.

Didn't the short-wide extractor end up on some of the second-gen pistols, like the 439 or 539 ? They must have found some ISP spares laying around

At the risk of totally hi-jacking this thread, my 39 no-dash 316xx has a slide stop lever that sticks out of the frame on the right side well past the vertical plane of the slide, but the 39-2 is pretty much even with the edge of the slide. Is that normal, or do I have an improper replacement in the 39 ?

Back on topic - nice ISP 39 ! I doubt I'll ever run across one of those way out here in the upper left corner, but it's something I look for.
The early 2nd gens with the short wide extractors were another story altogether. Basically S&W wanted a better extractor. The stories I have heard are that it is a reliable extractor, but not any better than the long skinny style, so they stuck with the old "its not broke, so lets not fix it".

On your slide stop, most no-dashes I have seen have the longer slide stop, mine included. I'm not sure about why, but it is one of the 39-2 changes.

Now back on topic .... The ISP Model 39's were a unique side story in the 39 series, and leads to the adoption of the 59 series and the "wonder-nines" that came later. They are a nice piece of history that is often forgotten by the gun history people. Keep that one in good shape, but don't just let it sit either. They are great guns.
__________________
J.D. Roy
Member #2308
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 08-18-2011, 10:54 PM
625smith's Avatar
625smith 625smith is offline
SWCA Member
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 2,423
Liked 2,649 Times in 595 Posts
Default

Thank you all for your comments.

"FirebirdV8 Is the extractor broken, or do you just want a spare for it?"

I wasn't sure at first I thought that all the 39 no dashes had the long extractor. I put an empty case in and it ejected just fine. You are correct about the metalwork. The ends of the extractor have been filed and are not consistent with a break. I am glad I didn't try to fix something that isn't broke.

"BruceB Did those late 39 no-dash examples have the newer 5 land barrel rifling?"

The barrel in this 39 is 6 lands & grooves.

A friend of mine's father had this box of 9mm from the ISP. His father was kind enough to give me this box of ammo to go with my pistol. The headstamp is WCC+P+ 83. Oh and I don't plan on firing this ammo.




Last edited by 625smith; 02-17-2018 at 01:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 08-18-2011, 11:45 PM
Cyrano's Avatar
Cyrano Cyrano is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,595
Likes: 13,528
Liked 6,610 Times in 2,514 Posts
Default

Pretty rare piece with that extractor; wish I could find one.

On the slide stop pin protrusion on the right side of the frame. The longer pin was intended for use with the dust cover, which snapped around the right end of the pin. When they omitted the grooves for the dust cover from the front of the frame, they introduced a shorter pin. Your short pin gun should lack the grooves for the dust cover, if the slide stop and frame came out of the factory together.

Last edited by Cyrano; 08-23-2011 at 02:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 08-19-2011, 10:17 PM
ispcapt ispcapt is online now
US Veteran
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: IL
Posts: 913
Likes: 125
Liked 1,304 Times in 414 Posts
Default

The wide short extractor was one of the recommendations made by our range folks along with a few other modifications. Our range people worked very closely with S&W for a lot of years on various modifications which ultimately resulted in the 3rd gen autos.
Most of our 39-nothing were converted over to the wide short extractor. Might have been a some early 39-nothing that were issued and then bought by retirees before being converted. The one pictured below is the one I was issued. You will see on the top of the slide an indent for the roll pin which holds the extractor in place. Yours has the same roll pin. The older long extractors did not have that roll pin in that location.
Yours would have been in the later issue of the 39-nothing before going to the 39-2. My inventory number is in the 900 range and my serial number is about 2500 less than yours. Most likely yours would have been issued in 1969 or 1970 time frame. Mine was in the first batch rolled out to the road Troops in 1968.
FYI on the inventory number. Back then state regs said that all equipment over a certain value had to have an inventory number afixed to it. Serial numbers did not meet the state regs. Even squad cars had to have an separate inventory number. By the time the 39-2 models came around the reg was modified and unique serial numbers could be substituted for inventory numbers.
Using 115 gr loads mine shoots like a Model 52. Sub-2" groups all day long at 25 yds. Unfortunately, I can't but my 39 can. I don't know how many thousands of rds have been thru mine. A lot. In addition to the shooting to smooth it out the range guys did a heck of a job on my trigger. Super smooth and just the right weight pull. Even if mine didn't have the sentimental attachment I still wouldn't sell it.

__________________
183rd FBINA

Last edited by ispcapt; 08-19-2011 at 10:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 08-21-2011, 10:20 PM
625smith's Avatar
625smith 625smith is offline
SWCA Member
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 2,423
Liked 2,649 Times in 595 Posts
Default

Added range results see page 1. No problems with the extractor fired 50 rounds no stoppages.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-23-2011, 09:41 PM
Popa Slug Popa Slug is offline
Member
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Orange County,CA
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

If you are still looking for an extractor or maybe to get an extra one (I picked up an extra for my 39) here's a link....

Extractor, Old Style, NI
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-24-2011, 10:42 PM
BruceB's Avatar
BruceB BruceB is offline
US Veteran
39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21 39 No dash ISP pistol/Range results added 8/21  
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Des Moines WA
Posts: 831
Likes: 248
Liked 466 Times in 230 Posts
Default

At the last training weekend event I participated in, I grabbed my 39 no-dash for the 50yd accuracy portion, and completely blew away the others with their collection of Glocks, Sigs, and 1911 variants and clones in any caliber. That was with 115 gr FMJ commercial bulk reloads, and sweat fogging up my shooting glasses.

I was so happy with it, I used it for the rest of the day, even though it meant lots more magazine reloading and tactical reload situations. Of course, I neglected to bring the single-stack 9mm magazine holders, so I managed to shed two of my magazines from the .45 size holders running through a multi-target course.

The old M39 with the 6-groove barrel still outshoots everything else I own, except maybe the Model 41.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Tags
1911, commercial, extractor, headstamp, m39, model 39, model 41, model 52, serrations, tactical, winchester

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to me 4596 (Added range results 6/22) 625smith Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 14 06-27-2014 12:31 PM
New to me 686 *Added range results 4/10* 625smith S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 23 04-11-2011 04:32 PM
New to me 3913/Added range results 9/29/10 625smith Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 14 09-29-2010 10:40 PM
Model 67 No Dash/added range results 9/16/10 625smith S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 19 09-18-2010 01:45 PM
New to me Model 10 no dash w/pics *Range results added* 625smith S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 12 08-31-2009 05:12 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:12 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2020
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)