I found a used 4516 no dash, seems to be in very nice shape. They want $499 which may be a bit high,but finding any compact 3rd gen around here in a store is rough. I did notice the mag in the gun had a note that it was for the 4516 only and not the -1 or any other revisions.

I have seen in my searches that there were some issues with the no dashs, so I am reluctant to get it, but it did feel good in my hand for a compact. Just don't want to end up with a $4-500 compact range only gun.

Since there is that note on the magazine, do 4506/4566 mags still work with it?

What were the differences in the mags between no dash and -1 and later?

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

I had a 4516 no dash and it would not function with any ammo I ever tried in it, and it wasn't for lack of effort on my part. It brought new meaning to the phrase jam-a-matic! I believe they bulked up the -1 which is why the mags don't work, but I am not absolutely sure what all the differences are. It taught me that 1911's are the only way to go.

Get a -1 or later if you can. I have a 4516-1 and it will feed anything that fits in the magazine. I think the 4506/4566 mags are 8 rounders while the 4516 is a 7 round magazine. It's a great pistol but a little too heavy for me to carry very much. It makes a great truck gun though and is super accurate.

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AL
Pax Per Potens

Interesting, I had the opposite experience, the no dash I had shot like a champ, I did change recoil and mag springs on a regular basis though. The mags also all seemed to work in spite of the warnings but for carry I would only use the latest black follower mags. The -0 did have a lighter slide than the later dashes, but it also used the dual recoil spring, the -1 went to a heavier slide and a single recoil spring while the -2 and up kept the heavier slide and used the dual recoil spring. I would not necessarily pass on a -0 if the condition and price was right which for me would be around $350-400. Also the 4516 uses a 7 round mag but the longer 8 round 4506/4566 will work they just stick out a little.

Thanks guys, I think I'll hold off for now and see if the price comes down to where its worth the risk. At $499 its not to me.

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

I recently picked one up for a reasonable price.
First thing I did was try to cycle some rounds by hand. Many of them jammed up on the edge of the chamber and most of them would barely extract, and ejection consisted of leaving the round lying on top of the next one in the mag.
I pulled the extractor to check for damage and found that the recess behind the extractor claw was absolutely plugged with crud. Cleaned that out and they extracted perfectly. Next, I radiused the edge of the entry to the chamber with my trusty dremel and a cratex bullet....away went the jamming issue (at least by hand).
After giving it a detail strip and thorough cleaning I ran it out to the desert and put 100 flawless rounds through it. Recoil is fantastically mild, and the accuracy is excellent. I absolutely love my 4516! I also recently acquired some extra mags from the later model 4516 and compared them to my mags with the warnings. As far as I can see the only difference (besides the color of the followers) is a slight indent on either side of the magazines feed lips on the dash model magazines. Every thing else looks identical to me.

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Learn history, or repeat it.

In my experience there are mags with black, orange and yellow followers.

All of the above have worked flawlessly in four 4516s and two Shorty 45s.


Cat

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Think for yourself.

I had one of the first 4516 ND's when they first came out. I used it for plain clothes assignments and off-duty. I bought another 4516 a couple of years ago. Both were absolutely flawless and would feed empty brass. Great little guns.

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Dave Frost

Now you guys are killing me, I had my mind made up against a no dash, now I think I should give it more consideration.

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

While I agree with those who warn us that short barrel 45's can be prone to stoppages - and have listened to those who have "been there done that" tell us that their 4516's worked 50% of the time during shootouts - I'm still a big fan of the 4516 and think there are things one can do to insure its reliability.

The problem with the 4516 no dash is one of slide inertia. The slide can simply outrun the spring in the mag and this results in a stoppage. The slide of the 4516 no dash is slightly lighter (as is the entire 4516 no dash) than later 4516 variants. I can't recall the exact difference, check the SCSW.

Later 4516's, the -1, -2 and LEO special order -3 all incorporated various changes to increase reliability. One change was the frame. The step was removed and the frame beefed up for durability. The slide was made slightly thicker and beefed up as well. The mags were changed too, but I can't recall the changes made to them, other than the followers. Around the 4516-2 the recoil spring assembly was changed to a dual recoil spring and a different guide rod.......thinner in diameter..?? was incorporated.

All that said, I have had a very good experience with the one 4516 no dash I fired. Granted it was at an open range day and not after bailing out of a car, with adrenaline coming out of my ears and a less than perfect grip - ALL THINGS THAT ARE LIKELY IN A SHOOTING.

I've probably told this story a few dozen times here.......OK, here and EVERYWHERE. So those who have heard it ad nauseum should tune out now.

I was at an open range day, which is where the agency "destroys" confiscated/evidence ammunition - by sending downrange from the pile of confiscated handguns in the property room. The truck carrying the ammunition had crates of handguns, which we could look through until we found something that interested us in a caliber we liked to shoot.

At the time I was looking for a compact 45 to carry off duty. My partner at the time had a new Colt Defender. I had shot it, but wanted a TDA pistol. I'd also shot all the compact 45's that were popular and available at the time. None of them impressed me much.

So I went through the crates and found a 4516 no dash. The 4516 was filthy. Carbon buildup everywhere. Bone dry too. Not a hint of grease or a drop of oil. Only the mag in the pistol to shoot with. So, I shot it....and shot it....and shot it some more. Around the 400th or so round, I noticed the slide started getting...sluggish. At 500 rounds I took a break to get coffee and a smoke and I broke down the 4516 and splashed it with Breakfree. I then went on to shoot a few hundred more rounds through the rest of the day.

A word about the "ammunition" this little 4516 was eating. Some were odds and ends of roll your owns, some were so old they had green verdigris all around the bullet and over the casing, some had dirt and grime virtually filling the JHP. The 4516 ate every one of them like they were factory fresh ball. Very impressive, to me. Not one stoppage. Very accurate little pistol too.

I immediatly went out in search of one. I found a 4516-3. I won't sell it.

I think that a 4516 no dash can be made more reliable by using Wolfe + 10% mag springs. I personally would not use the increased weight recoil spring as the slide moves fast enough as is. I want the round coming up faster and firmer. If S&W would convert the no dash slide to use the dual recoil spring set up, I'd do that too. IIRC someone here said they won't do that conversion anymore. Dunno. I'd also make sure the 4516 no dash stays lubed - with grease too. Sure, they will run dry - but they run better when lubed properly.

Anyways, at that price, it would be very tempting to snap up that 4516, for me. I'd play with it and see how reliable it is. 300 trouble free rounds would probably find it in my holster. Good luck with your decision! Regards 18DAI.

18DAI,
Did the no dash come with a single recoil spring? I have seen two and both have a two spring set up, they have a little bushing in the slide to allow use of a smaller recoil spring guide. I always thought they came that way but maybe they were both converted.

Hi Mack,

AFAIK all the 4516 no dash pistols came with the single spring set up. I could be wrong though and according to my ex-wife probably am. The double recoil springs didn't show up till the 4516-2 IIRC.

Maybe KurtC, ShelbyV8 or CALREB will see this and tell us for sure. If the conversion is as easy as a bushing installation my local smith could do that for me........then I'll be needing a 4516 no dash too! Its a disease I tell ya. Regards 18DAI.

It sure did feel good in the hand. Man I hate tough decisions.

18DAI,you're making me want to go put it on layaway. Darn you!

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

Sorry! Hey, at the very least, it will be a fun range toy. Regards 18DAI

It's been some years since I owned a no dash but as I recall all three (or four?) of them that I've owned had dual recoil spring set up.

Nice pistol.


Cat

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Think for yourself.

I purchased a 4516-1 a little over a year ago. I was looking for mags and only came up with no dash mags. I do not see the difference between the two. This was my first auto and I must say I still love it. I have added a few more to the list like the 3913. I pack it in my vest when I'm riding the scoot. All I can say is it never has failed to cycle after 1300 at least rounds.
The only issue I have had was the extractor broke.
Hey it's a Smith they all rock hard. Buy it.

My 4516-1 is probably a very early -1. I bought it in the late 80s or early 90s. I carried it both plain clothes and in uniform. When I went back in uniform, it was as accurate as my 645 and I was only giving up one round so I just stuck with it. It has a single recoil spring, and at least one of my mags is marked for the no dash. I can't remember a single malfunction in the 25+ years I have owned it. It is also fitted with 4506 & 4566 uppers. The 4566 upper has the best balance.

I was going to take my 457 to the range today..........now you folks have me thinking about getting the 4516s out of storage. Good idea! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Bought a 4516 ND from a member a year ago. Don't think it had been shot much. Replaced all the springs in it with Wolff heavy duties. Did not shoot it until last Oct. when I took it to TDI for Handgun 4. Ran about 300-400 handloads (200 SWC) through it without a hitch.

I used all of my 7 round 45 mags (many of which are marked 4516-1 ONLY), and they all ran just fine.

Great little gun, but I may let it go, as I prefer my 4513TSW somewhat better.

S/F,

RAS (aka Walter)

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A man's got to know his limita