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  #1  
Old 01-18-2012, 01:40 AM
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Default 1911 Full length guide rod?

Is there a benefit to the full length guide rod in a 1911? If so, what?
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:08 AM
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The primary benefit is to the folks who manufacture, sell and/or install them.

When the late Jeff Cooper was asked what the full length guide rod was for, he would say it is so those folks would have something to sell.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:47 AM
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It just complicates something that is simple.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:58 AM
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I feel like if you buy one to add to the nose mass or it has some kind of recoil reduction spring gadget then at least it's doing something, but as far as just a plain old full length rod, no, I don't see the point. I have read that it helps with the spring not binding up but I have yet to see that as a problem... ever...
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:20 AM
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It seems to run in cycles. Years back the full length guide rods were quite popular. Many high-end custom builders offered them in their guns as "improvements", claiming they improved reliability and accuracy. These days, I see the trend going back to the original set-up.

I installed the Wilson Combat FLGR's in a couple of SA mil-spec 1911 pistols about fifteen years ago, mostly because I thought they looked cool, but I didn't see any noticeable improvement over the original system. The guns worked fine before the "upgrade", and they ran fine after I sent my money to WC. Everyone knows half the fun of owning a 1911 is messing around with them, changing parts and convincing yourself you're a budding gunsmith.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:34 AM
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Well said sop.

Thanks for the comments fellas. That's kind of what I thought I'd hear.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:36 AM
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Yes they serve to make the recoil system more complicated and to require special tools to allow you to disassemble the firearm for cleaning. There is a reason why most serious users (USMC, LA SWAT etc.) specify the original length guide rods on the 1911's they order.

Last edited by Mack; 01-18-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
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Yes they serve to make the recoil system more complicated and to require special tools to allow you to disassemble the firearm for cleaning. There is a reason why most serious users (USMC, LA SWAT etc.) specify the original length guide rods on the 1911's they order.
What special tool is required for what FL guide rod? I know of very tightly fit bushings that need a wrench, but I know of no guide rods that need tools. What am I missing?
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:49 AM
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In my experience with 25 1911s over more than 25 years, the full-length guide rod is totally useless on them.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:02 AM
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Full-length guide rods also prevent you from pushing a slide back by placing the the lower end of the slide against a post. Not that it is something you do very often, but have encountered ammo that would not chamber properly.

The slide is out of battery, can't tap it closed, and can't yank it back by hand. It was "push on a post" that cleared the offending round.

Turned out it was the combination of the cast bullet I was using and AMERC head stamped brass. These were reloads with "club match brass." You toss in the tumbler what other folks picked after after your run after culling the steel cases and .40 cal hulls and load some for next week.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:05 AM
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I threw mine away and put a standard rod in. Much easier to disassemble.
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:41 PM
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I have one in my Les Baer Premier II long slide. Is there any benefit? Who knows. I put it in to go along with the crowd 14 years ago. As far as working with it, all it takes is an allen wrench to un-screw the rod. The bushing is the same.

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Old 01-18-2012, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximumbob54 View Post
What special tool is required for what FL guide rod? I know of very tightly fit bushings that need a wrench, but I know of no guide rods that need tools. What am I missing?
There are some guide full length rods that are two piece. They require a pin to be installed to remove them.

Also, because the spring cap is hollow, you need a tool to press down on the cap so you can turn the bushing. I've tried to do it by hand, but it hurts and I can't push the cap far enough to allow the bushing to turn. I need to use some kid of tool even if it's just a flat piece of metal.
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Old 01-18-2012, 03:19 PM
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My Colt L. Commander XSE came with a full length guide rod and I bought a Harrt's Recoil Reducing guide rod. I don't push in the plunger to take down the gun. I just pull the pin and remove the slide. It has always seemed much easier to me on all 1911's to do it like that. I had no idea some guide rods need a pin in them to be removed. Odd. What does this design offer???
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Old 01-18-2012, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximumbob54
I had no idea some guide rods need a pin in them to be removed. Odd. What does this design offer???
I have no idea, but I'll bet it was originally thought to make removing the rod easier.

The guide rod on my pistol will not come out until the spring has been removed. There isn't enough space between the bottom of the slide and the barrel. Removing the spring gives you just enough room to get the rod out.
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Old 01-18-2012, 04:40 PM
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Personally, I don't care for the FLGR. In the 1911s I have or have owned, if they come with a FLGR I replaced them with a GI guide rod. I find it much easier to field strip with the GI rod. I've never read anything definitive showing there is a real benefit to a FLGR.

I especially don't like the two-piece guide rods. All they are good for is to come unscrewed, and to require a allen wrench or tool to disassemble them.
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Old 01-18-2012, 05:02 PM
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They were "cool"at one time,but in the end you need a bushing wrench to field strip and it's a nuisance if you forget it.So now I have half a dozen wrenches spread around in the truck,in the safe,in the shooting bag,etc.
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Old 01-18-2012, 05:03 PM
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The most accurate 1911 I have also have full length guide rods on them. They are very consistent.The 1911's I had without them were not.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:08 PM
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In the mid 80's I did machine work for a fellow that built combat autos I put comps on and milled in Bomar sights and whatever he wanted to try and on mine and a few others I built full length rods but I had access to a very heavy metal called Mallory No Chat that was used in lathe boring bars and we put several in customers autos. The only advantage was the extra weight. Jeff
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:46 PM
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Also full length guide rods were used on the Colt Officers model to fix the weak front plugs.. I have two colts and never used the fix and have had no issues in 20+ years of shooting them.. They also claimed tighter groups.. Heck if you can't hit something at fighting range with a hand gun you need a rife anyway.. I would not wast my money.. IMO George
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:06 PM
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Theoretically yes, in real life experience they seem to make little if any difference. I would suggest the are better ways to spend your gun dollars.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:17 PM
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marketing. that's all they are. do NOTHING for any 1911 whatsoever besides complicating disassembly. do nothing for accuracy, reliability, or function. period.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:33 PM
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I have a bunch of 1911's and I've tried several different kinds of flgr's and can't tell any difference in the way the guns run. Reliability is the same, accuracy is the same, take down however is more difficult.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:26 AM
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Hi everyone,
I'm away and late to the game.
I tested these several years ago. I was running light loads in steel plate comp guns. I was at a point where I wondered if I was better off with out the weight of a FLGR or not because the loads were light enough that recoil was minimal. A lighter gun = faster split times
What I found is if you start loading lighter and lighter, the gun with out the FLGR will stop working before the one with it.
I expect this might carry over to a full power load in the event you took some action that might slow down the slide speed...like raking the gun on a barricade when shooting or something like that.
There didn't seem to be much difference under normal loads and conditions but the advantage shows up when you encounter low slide speed.
Technically, there is a difference. I doubt you would notice it much under every day circumstances.
Thanks
Mike

Last edited by mstuhr; 01-20-2012 at 09:28 AM. Reason: stutter
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:12 PM
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I added a Wilson Combat full length to my SIG 1911. It worked fine without it and continues to work fine with it. It adds a little forward weight which I like for recoil. No special tools are needed.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:45 PM
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I am bumping this thread to point out that Jerry Kuhnhausen recommended both the FLGR and ShokBuf for target shooting. He specifically stated that the FLGR insured that the spring compressed uniformly - Which would translate to smoother slide motion. The ShokBuf prevents battering - You can see by looking at one that has been in service for a few hundred rounds that it is definitely doing it's job, and certainly beats having to dress down disturbed metal.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:42 PM
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I can work with either.
With a 5" 1911 I prefer a stainless FLGR, if just for the feel/weight. IMO, not really a major hassle to break down. God forbid someone times me breaking down and reassembling!
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Is there a benefit to the full length guide rod in a 1911? If so, what?
No, there is no real benefit, except to the manufacturer of the guide rod and the gun company. Gun companies like them because it makes the traditional "press check" nearly impossible, which keeps the fingers away from the muzzle, meaning fewer idiots blow the tips of their fingers off because they didn't keep their finger off the trigger. Guide rod companies like them because it gives them something to make and sell.

The claimed advantage is that it increases accuracy and prevents the recoil spring from "kinking." It has been proven to have absolutely NO effect on accuracy, and the spring issue is just not a problem. Some claim that the additional weight helps with recoil. Recoil is just not an issue if you know how to properly hold the pistol. The FLGR will not do anything good for you. The problem is that it will definitely do something bad for you.

The huge disadvantage from my perspective is that the two-piece guide rods will come unscrewed at the wrong time and both the one-piece and the two-piece guide rods mean that disassembly requires one or two tools, thereby making the piece unfit for any real self-defense or combat use.

Last edited by shawn mccarver; 05-02-2012 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:38 PM
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If God had meant for the 1911 to have a FLGR, it would have been in the plans he sent J.M. Browning.
All they really do is add weight (if you need it, that's a plus) and complicate disassembly (no plus at all).
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:43 PM
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I tried one in a Gold Cup for about a year then discarded it as so much baggage.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:01 PM
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My new S&W is the first 1911 I've ever had that came with a FLGR standard.
Ran OK with it. Complicates field stripping, however.
No way to do it blindfolded with just my hands as I was taught ages ago.
Replaced it with the JMB designed original. Runs fine.
Same with the gas pedal ambi safety that precludes safe holstering in condition one.
Threw that thing away immediately and swapped in a standard Colt unit that runs perfectly.
My guess is that S&W adds this stuff as many (most?) buyers have come to believe that it's an essential bit of bling.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:13 PM
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You can't do this with a FLGR. In an emergency situation it will work!!!


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Old 05-03-2012, 04:43 PM
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I'm impressed by how many folks there are here that know more than Kuhnhausen. Too bad you all haven't written a shop manual to correct all his mistakes.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
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I'm impressed by how many folks there are here that know more than Kuhnhausen. Too bad you all haven't written a shop manual to correct all his mistakes.
Never heard of Kunhausen.
IIRC John Moses Browning wrote the book on the 1911.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:59 PM
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YES, old timers don`t like any thing different, BUT the full length g.r. puts weight out front witch helps you gets back on point faster + on older guns with looser slide to frame fit they help smooth out recoil. half a million rnds through 1911s I ain`t guessing -I know. No offense to the they didn`t build them that way in the old days Guys. But things change. we grow and learn. we must open our minds to things that scare us ;D
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by krehmkej View Post
Never heard of Kunhausen.
IIRC John Moses Browning wrote the book on the 1911.
Originally Posted by pokute
I'm impressed by how many folks there are here that know more than Kuhnhausen. Too bad you all haven't written a shop manual to correct all his mistakes.

Howdy,
With the utmost respect to the likes of Browning and Kunhausen, there have been many worthwhile modifications made to the 1911 over the years by the likes of Pachmyer, Clark, Baer etc.
Because one or the other doesn't favor an idea does not necessarily mean it lacks merit.
It is like saying if cars were meant to have power steering and air-conditioning Henry Ford would have he would have designed it in to them at conception.
I think it was Jim Clark who said "If you think it helps you then it probably does". I don't remember exactly what he was commenting on, some piece of bulls eye gear that had been declared minimal in benefit.
All do respect to J.M Browning, but just because he did not include it in his original design or maybe Kunhausen won't approve,or the fact I have not written a book does not mean it won't work or benefit me.
Thanks
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geneboy View Post
YES, old timers don`t like any thing different, BUT the full length g.r. puts weight out front witch helps you gets back on point faster + on older guns with looser slide to frame fit they help smooth out recoil. half a million rnds through 1911s I ain`t guessing -I know. No offense to the they didn`t build them that way in the old days Guys. But things change. we grow and learn. we must open our minds to things that scare us ;D

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Old 05-03-2012, 11:44 PM
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I tried the full-length guide rod. Shot it for a year or so and learned that it was baggage. I wasn't scared of it. It was just my personal observation. I grew from the experience. I was open-minded about it until I tried it. Now I'm close-minded about full length guide rods.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:31 AM
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ma deuce ma deuce is offline
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My new E-Series has the FLGH. No special tool required except a BIC pen to push down the plug, but even that's a fiddly PITA to me - the GI plug just requires my stubby old arthritic thumb. I'm going to try replacing the FLGH and see if it affects accuracy.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:38 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geneboy View Post
YES, old timers don`t like any thing different, BUT the full length g.r. puts weight out front witch helps you gets back on point faster + on older guns with looser slide to frame fit they help smooth out recoil. half a million rnds through 1911s I ain`t guessing -I know. No offense to the they didn`t build them that way in the old days Guys. But things change. we grow and learn. we must open our minds to things that scare us ;D
I must respectfully disagree. The .45 ACP is not so recoil intensive that extra weight is needed for control.

Knowledge of how to properly hold the weapon with the push pull of isometric tension will tame the recoil just fine. Jack Weaver, Jeff Cooper, Elden Carl, John Plahn, Thell Reed and Ray Chapman all figured this out in the 50s, which is 60 years ago or therabouts.

Things do change. We now shoot with two hands on the pistol and we control recoil not with heavy guide rods, reduced loads or compensators. We control the recoil of a full power load - a fight stopping load - with knowledge. Knowledge that has been freely available to everyone since the early 50s - the 1950s, I mean.
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Old 06-24-2012, 11:47 PM
oberon oberon is offline
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When I hotrodded my 1911, I put a bunch of parts in. Among them was the FLGR and a shock buffer. The only noticeable mod was a sweet FCG. The thing shot the same as with he OEM stuff in it. It always grouped well; I just couldn't shoot that good.
We are boys at heart and like to think that fiddling with things is a way to offset our lack of talent, shooting-wise. I'm stayin' with the hotrod parts. In fact, my son wants me to hotrod his 1911 as funds and parts permit. I'll probably go with fundamental improvements first, and let him decide if he wants to cough up sheckels for mods of questionable effectiveness.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:36 AM
Mountain Walker Mountain Walker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAROMAN View Post
My new S&W is the first 1911 I've ever had that came with a FLGR standard.
Ran OK with it. Complicates field stripping, however.
No way to do it blindfolded with just my hands as I was taught ages ago.
Replaced it with the JMB designed original. Runs fine.
Same with the gas pedal ambi safety that precludes safe holstering in condition one.
Threw that thing away immediately and swapped in a standard Colt unit that runs perfectly.
My guess is that S&W adds this stuff as many (most?) buyers have come to believe that it's an essential bit of bling.
I was planning to do the exact same thing for the exact same reasons to a spanking brand new S&W 1911 E SC commander. I really dislike the winged safeties. The Colt Standard, is the best I have found.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:38 AM
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jstanfield103 jstanfield103 is offline
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I have a FSGR on my 1911, have no problems with it. I beleive I will put the GI Guide Rod in mine though, just because I don't like the look of the open end on the guide rod. Stupid I know, but it just does not look right and can allow burnt powder and dirt to get inside.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:08 AM
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I don't know. I think a lot of this topic was meant for the makers of the guide rods with $$$$ in mind.. Like Audio Files they tend to hear or feel what others tell them they should be hearing or feeling and of corce then they hear and feel it. Bunk!!!! Shooting is the same when it comes to full length guide rods. Of course unless other factors tack place at the same time like custom frame to slide fit same with barrel bushing.. I have run Two Colt Officers models fully stock for 20 + years with out a failure of any kind.. Never a new spring in mag or gun!Never launched my slide because of the so called weak barrel bushing.. Well if people are fitting new recoil springs to these guns because they think they are doing good. That's where issues start. Long springs are the main issue bad bushings launched slides and other issue.."Lack of knowledge"" Most need to be fit and fit right to the gun in many ways" Good guns Colt Smith Beretta and so many others don't really need to be fused with unless your competition shooting and then you better know what you doing.. My officers modeled shoot just as well with ones fitted with a full length guide rod.. Take down easier and easier to maintain as well.. Plus shoots as well! You just put in a recoil spring or don't fit it to the gun you could have a lanched slide on this model.
I may have been a little off topic but feel it comes up so much I may as well post !!George

Last edited by George9; 06-28-2012 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:29 PM
TAKJR TAKJR is offline
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The ONLY FLGR I EVER used was a tungsten one, which did add some EXTRA weight to the gun. That's about it.

JMB designed the 1911 for the military with the idea that it could be disassembled in the field EASILY without ANY tools

If you like the FLGR buy one and use it.

Otherwise........forget it.

TAKJR
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:36 PM
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Can I just throw in an open invitation that for those that stated they throw away the FLGR when it come with their gun. I'll be happy to take them off for you. I'll even pay shipping for your trouble.
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