Hi folks,

Please take this in the manner it's presented-I have no axe to grid, and to be honest this is the most respectful, informative and enjoyable forum I've been fortunate enough to be a part of, so I don't think things will get too heated at all.

I've shot 1911s for 20 years-Colts, Kimbers, SA, a Norinco or two (a bit rough, but well-made of good materials) and a Wilson (one of their budget guns from @ Y2K).

Most were fairly reliable, some more than others, but for me none were as consistently reliable as a Smith 2nd or 3rd Gen. I've personally seen a 5906 go 4,000 rounds without a single malfunction of any kind. My 4506 is hot on its' heels with almost 3,000 rounds without a single issue.

I vastly prefer the relative mechanical simplicity of a 1911. I don't like DA/SA guns with a de-cocker-but the stone-cold reliability of the S&W DA/SA autos has made me a convert.

Don't get me wrong-if you like your 1911 and it's been reliable, by all means, go with what works for you. I'm not trying to change your mind or put down your choice-my reasons apply to me and me alone.

I'm just wondering if there are others who made a transition away from 1911s to S&W DA/SA autos as I have.

I deeply respect and enjoy shooting 1911s. The transition to a DA/SA decocker pistol was not an easy one for me, but in the end it was the right choice for me.

Anyone else have a similar experience? Heck, in all honesty-really- if you haven't had a similar experience I'd like to jear from you too if you're inclined to share.

Respectfully,

Heekma

I didn't switch; I "augmented".

:-)

I also added a couple 3rd Gens to my battery of 1911 carry guns.

actually this was one of the primary selling points of the second and thrid gen .45's for those who dont like to carry cocked and locked and having to switch off the safety to fire.

I carried a Colt 1911 Combat Elite when I first started as a patrol deputy with our local sheriff's office. There are about 4000 or so of us in the office who are armed, with about 1000 of those who are sworn. I enjoyed the 1911, but when I went to SWAT school I went to a hosting agency who used S&W 4506s, 4566s and 4516s.

I must say the 4506 was the most reliable pistol I'd ever seen and I was a convert after I lost $20 to a guy who bet me he could feed empty cases through his 4506.

In any case, I changed right then and there to the 4506 for uniform and patrol, and later when I went to detectives I carried a 4563 and 4516.

Now, if I look in my holster there is a 1911 in there as my unit now carries 1911s as a whole (SIG 1911 Tac Ops TB). If I go home and put on a uniform, or for any function outside of my special duties, I use a S&W 3rd generation .45.

My agency predominatly carried Glock and 1911s, but we're beginning to see other S&W 4506s on the range. I credit films such as Training Day, Street Kings, and the series The Shield for the resurgance of S&W in my department.

I don't care really what started it, but I'm glad to see a 4506 in a good guy's holster...at least I know it'll work if he does his part.

An excellent discussion. I hope to hear a lot of opinions on this one.

I owned a 4506 years ago. I got it not long after they discontinued the 645. That gun was fantastic and I never should have sold it. I never had a single malfunction with it.

Then I bought a Colt Delta Elite cambered in 10mm. That gun sucked. It never went a single magazine without a jam. I bought it new and actually got my money back.

For many years I went without an auto loader. Then I bought a Glock. I was so impressed by the simplicity and reliability of the design, I bought another. I don't care what you say about the looks or if you just don't like polymer, you have to admit those guns are super reliable. They go bang every time no matter what the conditions.

Unfortunately, the Glocks have such a horrible trigger, I can't shoot them well. Oh sure, I can put a round in a man sized target at 7 yards, but my groups look like a novice even if I really take my time.

So, I recently bought a SW1911. I have shot some great groups with this gun. Out to about 50 feet, I can put 8 rounds in a 5" group. That's good for me and getting better every time I shoot it.

However, I've had some issues with this gun. Statistically, shooting 10 full magazines (80 rounds) through a gun without a failure should be enough to call it reliable. Unfortunately for me, my 1911 hasn't passed that test. In 540 rounds I've had several failures. This is unacceptable. Until I figure out why, this gun will not be my carry gun.

So, I have a conundrum. On one hand I have a super reliable gun that I don't shoot well, and on the other I have a gun I shoot really well, but isn't reliable. It's frustrating I tell you.

I want my 4506 back!

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Freedom isn't free.

wouldnt happen to be a glock 19 would it or one of the third gens would it?

as the glock 19 never did fit my damn hand, the trigger was **** and the finger groves of the 3rd gens pretty much dont like up with the size of my hand.

the 17 however, specifically an 88' 17L had a great trigger and fits my hand well save for the slippy grip....

A 4006 recently replaced a 1911 as my home defense gun, if that counts. Those who know me are aware that I'm basically "Mr. 1911" on most forums, but I decided that a DA pistol with a safety/decocker was probably the better thing to make a panicked, half-awake grab for at 3am in the morning. But for EDC a 1911 is still my preference.

In truth, I have moved most of my auto's for revolvers. I still have a S&W 1911 E series, nice gun but I would take my 686 over it in a heart beat.
I have kept the 1911 because I like the gun but I would not bet my life on an auto as I carry a j-frame and have the 357 for home and range.
I just do not have the trust in a auto that I do in a revolver. Just my opinion.
Frank.

In reality the 4506 isn't that great of a departure from John Moses Brownings original work. All they did was improve a time tested proven design.

Carried a 1911 for 22 years and still have a Gold Cup, but it has been joined by a M 625 JM and M 325 NG.
The Night Guard gets carried.

Nope......

I've got a SW1911 that I like a lot...for an auto loader... acquiring another semi auto pistol would require me either selling my sw1911 to get the funds to pay for it (not going to happen), or using money that's earmarked for something else to buy another semi auto (also not going to happen). Sounds like they're great guns, I'm just not a semi-auto guy at heart.

I have 3rd gen, my first S&W auto. I have been told by many of my friends I need to buy a 1911, but I really don't see the need with having the 3rd gen gun. its everything I need for home and carry. Maybe I'm missing something with the 1911s, they certainly are great weapons. I've shot several but still pick my 3rd gen over any of them.

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Endeavor to persevere. <><

I've always been revolver, 1911. Now also have 6 SS smith 1-2-3gens.
The poor accuracy of the smith's just can't compare. The forum says to use 147gr. , but Walmart doesn't carry them. If I have to use expensive LGS ammo, I'll sell them. In the mean time they are collecting dust until I get time to work up some reloads.

I've been shooting 1911s for more than 50 years now. I've built two bullseye guns. It's a rare trip to the range that does not include a 1911. There is no handgun that I shoot better than a 1911.

But I haven't carried one in 35 years. For the last ten years or so, the only autos I've carried are either a 3rd gen Smith or a Berretta 96 compact. And a lot of the time I carry a 642 or a 325NG. Depends on the circumstances. I've never felt that "one size fits all", and I'm not LE or military, so I can use what I please.

From an administrative point of view, the 3rd gen guns are a little more forgiving. I know, safety is between your ears. But people get exhausted, sick, distracted, upset. People make mistakes and if you are talking about something you do every day, year in year out...well I'll take all the help I can get.l

Getting 1911s to run has been a whole industry for most of my life. They can be cranky. I have two (both Colts) that will run with just about any ammunition and most magazines. Others will only run 100% with certain ammo or magazines.

If you enjoy problem solving, the 1911 is for you. But if you are not looking for a hobby and you need a handgun that will likely run right out of the box, a 1911 might not be the best choice.

The thing about 3rd gen Smiths is they have been made in so many configurations. No matter what your needs, there is likely one that will do what you need.

The only bad part about them is that they are passing away. Smith and Wesson says they will continue to support the LE market, but how long will that last? There are still many like new 3rd gens out there, but that too will pass. Over time they will become like Colt DA revolvers: parts and service will become a little harder to find every day.

Same here i have loved Smiths autos since our LGS in the early 80s had a nickel model 59,I still like and carry sometimes a commander but more often than not Im carrying my 559 or 4566

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The Lord cometh and right soon

I feel better now after reading all of this. I sold my Glock 30, and went to an S&W model 4566 because I found I just liked it better. I thought it was all because I was just getting older and going back to my first love (all steel guns).

I love 1911s and shoot them often. I even carry one from time to time (rarely).
If I'm going into harm's way, I have to carry a Beretta M9. The closest thing I can find to the operation of an M9 in .45ACP is the 4506. No reason NOT to use one when I can. I now have a 4586, 4566, 4506-1 and a 6906. I can't imagine NOT having one of them available to carry for general purpose.

Having been trained on semi automatic pistols using a 1911 and forced by sorry circumstances to carry one for a couple of years, I won't ever do so again, voluntarily. Yea, I know, blasphemy to "real gun guys".

Too expensive for what they are, too unreliable to bet your life on - without laying out ALOT of money - I will take a S&W 3rd generation 45 every time............hell.....I'll take the 2nd generation 645 over any 1911 I've ever encountered. YMMV. Void where prohibited. If it lasts more than four hours tell everybody! Regards 18DAI

It is all in the mind of the person as to what is best for them. I carry a 1911 but have other type guns I could carry. For me, I have not ran across any other gun that out performs a quality 1911 in .45acp. Some have shot against me and then switched to 1911 format. Others enjoy their choice of guns and that is ok.

A surgeon and I was on the range Monday and he brought a few guns but mainly shot his 1911. To him, the recoil from the 1911 was less but then that is just an individual perception as is the choice of weapons, calibers, finish or whatever else.

I also have noticed that people will buy a new gun (toy) and it is the best thing since sliced bread. Months later, they are back to what they carried before the new toy.

I will shoot other guns but I will seldom carry any other than a 1911, cocked and locked. Which other gun can one carry cocked and locked safely?

well actually you can thank the germans for that, not smith and wesson as the 39 was designed after a bunch of WW2 era veterans asked smith to make their own double action pistol based off of the walther P38 and PPK after getting their hands on one during WW2, hence the placement of the safety and the DA mechanism

the other thing was that they simply made the slide stop and the plunger that holds it in place part of one simple piece with a spring in and plunger it along with a small metal piece to hold the plunger in, making reassembly a hell of alot easier than the 1911 where its two separate pieces that have to be forced in to properly work together, hence why so many 1911's are marred up in that spot, yet you seldome see that on any 39 derived gun like the second and third gens like the 645 and 4506.

actually I'm still wondering why more manufactures havent adopted that piece for their 1911's, I mean they've modified the original design with full length guide rods, external extractors, firing pin blocks but why not that as that would make take down far easier and far more plesant on the 1911.

I don't carry my Colt Series 70; too darned heavy. But it has the place of honor in a holster that hangs from between my mattress and box spring. It's cocked and locked with one round in the chamber. I shoot it a lot and am comfortable about getting it into action quickly if needed even when half asleep.

Neither slide with it is the original one; of the two, one has adjustable sights, and one has tritium sights. The tritium sights are on the pistol normally. It's stone cold reliable with anything I put down it, and I shoot it mostly with 180 gr cast SWCs, and a mild dose of W 231. It's real comforting to have in the hand when I'm uncertain about what's happening out there. I guess I'm eclectic. Of the four guns scattered around my house, three are 45s: the Colt, a Glock 36 and a S&W 625 Mountain Gun in 45 Colt. The other is a 357, beside me now at the computer.

Just this summer I found out about these s&w steel pistols. Through reading these posts I see that most of you guys are a lot older then I am and have been exposed to a wider variety of guns. I was old enough to buy a handgun towards the end of the AWB (2001) by then most guns the dealers around here had were polymer type or revolvers. Up until this point the only steel guns I owned was a s&w 629 Classic 44mag w/6'in barrel and the Desert Eagle .50! Both were bought for their "tough and powerful" persona. When I realized that they were not practical for my needs I sold them off. Otherwise I mainly had Taurus guns, a PT145 and a 40s&w Beretta copy.

This summer I went on a little bit of a buying spree in order to find the best all around gun that fits me and my needs. Bought a 1911 Citadel (re branded RI). Nice gun, not a tack driver but accurate and seems to be reliable most likely because every part is not .0000000001 tolerance of each other. Feeds all ammo and I just cleaned it after several thousand rounds and only because I was bored one day and decided to clean them all. What I dont like about the 1911 is the safety. I prefer guns with no safeties, like Glocks Kahrs and M&Ps. Anyhow by September I had
2 M&Ps. 9mm and .45
Citadel 1911
Glock 19
Kahr CW9
Browning Hi Power 9
CZ85

And Im probably forgetting some. And one day I walk into a local dealer who sells a lot of surplus and police trade ins and there up on his was are a bunch of cool looking steel guns. I asked to see them (5906 and 5946). Right away I noticed how "right" the feel in my hand. Good weight and balance, grip angle was good, Im a lefty and yet I could reach all the controls without shifting the gun around in my hand, good capacity mags and....$300 for a gun that was like new!!! I was sold! Bought the 5946 marked CLVDOHPD because Im not a fan of safeties. Since then Ive been doing research and have been trying to buy as many as I can remember about . So far I have the original 5946 another 5946 with no mag safety from the factory, a 1006 on layaway. Unfortunately I let a few slip by as well. 457 for $250 and a 4506 for $400.

I love these things! Solid, reliable, cheap price, and over looked by most people my age who are looking for the next XD with a 3.64in barrel or a Glock with textured grip or some other weird S#^t like that. So the Smiths end up sitting on the used shelf for me to grab up. Thanks you Mall Ninjas everywhere!!

Basically the same reason I went with a Sig Sauer P220R for a light mounted have ready at home gun.

I honestly feel that the 1911 platform is way overated. There are way too many that aren't reliable. A good design shouldn't need to be turned so heavily to work properly. Ergonomically they are fine.

If I had to choose one handgun it would be a Sig Sauer P series gun. The only reason I bought a S&W 1076 was because it worked just like a Sig Sauer, and I couldn't get one of those in 10mm.

I love my 1911's and shoot them better than any other handgun. My primary carry gun is a 3" Kimber Ultra. That said, of 5 3rd Gen Smiths that I have owned (still have 3) they have never failed. They are also plenty accurate for anything I would use them for. The 908 is a fantastic carry gun.

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AL
Pax Per Potens

86]I honestly feel that the 1911 platform is way overated. There are way too many that aren't reliable. A good design shouldn't need to be turned so heavily to work properly. Ergonomically they are fine.[/QUOTE]

The 1911 remains popular because 1) it's a classic, 2) it's ergonomics are nearly perfect, and 3) its trigger can be worked to perfection. What's amazing about it is that 100 years later it is still a viable platform for a combat auto - the same can't be said for other old platforms, like the Lugar.

The downside of being an old design is that a lot has changed. Original 1911 only had to feed ball ammo - today we require hollow points. Back in the day most guys might only put a few thousand rounds through a pistol in their lifetime - today many put those kinds of round counts through their guns annually. And, as 1911 gunsmith Hilton Yam has said, the 1911 was designed at a time when technology was expensive and labor was cheap - today it is the reverse. So, a good, reliable service 1911 can be had...it will just cost you a lot more than a used Smith, and require more maintenance to boot!

Matt

I carry what I shoot best and its this (but to the OPs comments, it's highly customized even though it was uber-reliable from the box) I've had good luck with all my 1911s as they ate everything and were accurate from word go:

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God Bless Our Troops.

I got my first 1911 at the tender age of 15, my Dad signed for and I mowed about 30 acres worth of grass that summer, but I finally had an Ithaca 1911A-1! It was a headache!! It never once made it through an entire magazine without jamming and eventually I did sell it. I moved in too the more modern stuff and eventually joined the Navy just as the Beretta got adopted, which went to all the front line troops and we ship dwellers got ancient 1911s that were for the most part DONE! The Beretta was a fine piece but the next pistol I was issued was a SIG P226 which was nothing short of phenominal!
One day though I found myself in a pawnshop in Virgina and spotted an 469 for the price of $250, I needed a personal piece and liked the little guns size, I bought and took it shooting the next day. Lo and behold this little blue Smith hung right in there with my issue SIG accuracy wise and reliability wise! I carried it till the finish wore off had it refinished and continued to carry it till a friend needed it more than me.
Now I own at least 4 Smith autos, 5906,5946,669,& 645, they're all reliable as taxes and accurate enough for their intended purpose! And their just a damned good lookin pistol in a world of ugly polymer! Next on my list is a 1006. Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

As someone else said, I've augmented my stable with S&W autos; primarily because my agency went back and forth with the single or double action auto thing. I've just kept them all as I find they each have their desireable characteristics.

I hardly think that anything Hollywood produces, no matter how realistic it may be, should be a reason for people in real life to adopt a particular firearm. I'm not saying it doesn't happen (Dirty Harry, Lethal Weapon) I'm just saying that's reality imitating art right there.

The one thing the 1911 has over every other auto loading pistol is the trigger. I can't think of another design that has the same quality trigger that the 1911 has. Even the inexpensive 1911s have better triggers than all of the DA/SA or DAO guns I've tried.

Sure, some of the other designs have OK triggers, but none of them are as crisp or creep free like the 1911.

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Freedom isn't free.

I don't know if this qualifies as an on point answer, but I own several 3G semis and never had a desire for a 1911. I've fired some 1911, including some very high end custom models and they are fine to shoot. One I shot had about a 3 pound trigger pull, although officially it had a 5 # pull. That was incredibly accurate, especially considering I'd never shot it before. For what it cost, upwards of $3K it should have been. Still, I like my 3G Smiths more.

I know to some that's heresy, but there you have it.

I agree with you, but I see guys mimicking TV all the time...

Sad, but there it is.

I don't really care how they get there, but more 3rd Gens on the street isn't a bad thing.

I went the other way. I had a number of 3rd gen S&Ws, my first being a 4006 way back in 1991. Never had owned a 1911, and frankly never cared much for them. It was certainly not a gun I would have considered carrying as I did not like the cocked/locked concept. Also, it seemed common in the 80s to hear what a great gun the 1911 was...all you had to do was buy one (expensive) and get a lot of custom work done on it (very expensive) to make it so. Nope, not interested.

However, my girlfriend decided she wanted a 1911 for the range and bought one of the early S&W 1911 target models. It is a great pistol, I like it, a range/target gun that has always run perfectly, with great sights, ergonomics and trigger. It turns in excellent groups with about anything at 25 yards, and especially likes 185gr LSWCs loaded with WSF which consistently produce <2" groups.

But I'd choose among a 3913, 4053, 4006, 1006, 4516, 4586, or 4506 for purposeful carry if needed.

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" I said, good DAY! "

plus you dont really see any 645's in anything, nor any of the second gens for that matter, probably because they all get their blank firing guns from the same people who bought their conversion guns from the LAPD or something which all seem to be latter model third gens.

plus hollywood would make you think you'd need a tank to walk outside to put mail in the box for crying out loud judging by how many shows have gunfights in them nowadays

hell makes you yearn for an episode of a cop drama where there is no gunfight or guns show in it at all just once.

plainly put thats fantasy, this is real life and no one likes to get shot.

and when it comes to liking things from TV and film well I like what I like and if it just so happens to be a quality product ill buy one

a nice car is a nice car and ditto with a gun.

My first centerfire autoloader was a 1969 Colt National Match that I've had for 20 years now. I bought it used, it had been refinished, but I got it for a great price. Shot that for many years at some local matches. The 1911 points easy, trigger is great, and is very accurate with reloads using SWC. I can’t see myself ever selling that one.

But I had also wanted a 9mm and have always liked the look of S&W autoloaders. So ten years ago, with some money in my pocket, I bought a nice 559 still in the box. That gun is so reliable, never has jammed on me. Later on I bought a nice still in the box 659, which strangely I think fits my hand better. The 559 and 659 grips are different I found, and have measurements to prove it.

Now I am looking for a decent 645, having read so much about them on this forum. If I find a nice one locally, I will buy it!

I shoot and carry 645's, 539's and 559's. I carry 230gr. ball in th 645 and standard vel. 147gr. jhp in the 9mm's. They are heavy...but have correspondingly low recoil. They don't have the best triggers.....which is offset by PRACTICE. They do do one thing, that no other handguns I own.....or have shot......or have seen shot by friends...very well: they go bang every time, all the time. I like 1911's a lot....but just will not carry one as long as I own a 645 for that reason only.

I was first acquainted with the 1911 in the Army in 1969. The ones we had were junk; people got hurt. I guy I knew had one go off in the holster-went through the right side of his leg-through his knee at a down to the left angle, and out of the left side if his lower leg. He had 13 days left in country. They were noisy, and rattled loudly just being carried. I developed an aversion to them. I had an MOS that called for 1911 carry, but all of the guys in my little detachment carried .38 SPL Revolvers, cross draw. Then about 3 years ago I found out the the very last 1911's that the govt bought when I was in was in 1943! So-those would have been the "newest" 1911's that would have been available to us, and theorheticly, we could have had guns going back 30 years or more than that! This says something very bad about the gov, and something good about the 1911, in my view. Anyway, I had gotten my first 1st Gen-a mod 59, back about 25 years , and many-many rounds ago, and was totally confident in it; accurate, ate anything, and never fumbled. Since then I have added a 4506 no dash-a4006 heavy barrel, and a 1006, all marvelous pistiols, but still had no 1911. But I had addmired the Para Ord Super Hawg, and found my self in a trade oppurtunity to get one; 6 inch barrel, with the whole load-match everything, and FO front site, a beutifully made gun-hi cap-14 rounds of ACP-world class fit and finish-very accurate. They require a 500 round break in! When that was (finally) done, I had ocassion to have it and my 4506 at the range at the same time, and I had loaded the same ammo that I was using in both guns. Well, the Smith was just much easier to shoot-more comfortable, with less perceived recoil, shooting the same ammo. The Para is a nice piece-and I am not looking to sell it, but it probably won't see as much use as my S&W's-and, oh yeah, there is that thing about field stripping the 1911. Flapjack.

I'm planning on doing the same but just a word of advice some of them seem to be better finished and better looking than others

like in particular the latter ones that have a matt black grip (if they havent been replaced with the packmyers) seem to look better finished and the checkering on the frontstrap looks cleaner

while some of the early ones do look rather scratchy, rough around the checkering and have a gloss grip

and this is something that's been perplexing me for awhile until I picked up on it as I liked the matt black griped ones better for some reason yet not the ones with the gloss grips until I took a closer look at the brushed stainless finish that the guy on the 4506 thread pointed out to me while talking about the transitional 645/ 4506 model and I noticed it looked better on the matt griped one, so it wasnt the grips that made the difference its basically the production date.

and actually this seems to be a trend with smith firearms, the latter 1980's guns seem to be overal better looking than the early 80's guns and better made atleast when it comes to the revolvers, the third gens and the 645

while most of the second gen 39 series guns seem to be pretty good and well built from the getgo as their just 39s in a new configuration that had all of the bugs worked out of it by then as the double stack 39 was ordered during the 70's for the navy or something

which fits as the 645 was a completely new gun back in 85 so it would need time to get the bugs worked out so to speak, like with the trigger which has a hitch on the SA from what everyones told me, something a trip to the gunsmith would easily solve.

while with the 4506 the trigger had been redone by novak for smith and thus I never hear that about the 4506 in that regard however you trade in those nice normal grips for an odd one piece unit that no one even uses anymore, that requires a punch to take out and it has trouble taking the hogue grip replacements

a weird hump of a front sight that looks like it was slapped on with no forethought plus its rigged up in the same way the Model 14's sights were, basically a partridge sight that could get snagged on a holster rather than the 645's front sight which was like the Baughman Quick Draw that was adopted on all of their revolvers past the model 15 so the front sight wouldnt catch on holsters.

basically one step forward, two steps back with the 4506 while the 645 only needs a trip to the gunsmith to remove the hitch, some locktight on the right side safety or a cap from a 4516, or the right side safety of the 4506 and then theres no real need to do anything else with it.

This is an interesting discussion. I often carry a 1911 as my primary carry piece and I feel comfortable doing so. However, there are many other good choices...2nd and 3rd gen Smiths being only one of them. If we are looking to discuss 1911s vs other possibly more reliable semiautos, why not include excellent choices like HK USP, CZ, FNP, and even the polymer guns (Glock, XDM, S&W M&P). One could probably argue that any of these are at least equal to most 1911s in reliability. As has been pointed out however, when it comes to ergonomics and trigger (which relate to first shot accuracy), the good ol 1911 remains hard to beat.

well that's purely down to trigger consistancy, your muscle memory and mind getting use to having one standard trigger pull, hence why SAO's and Double action revolvers were the standard for so long and hence why Jeff Cooper thought the ideal replacement for the 1911 was a CZ based design, because with the CZ 75 you have the option to carry cocked and locked or traditional DA/SA with the first shot and can put the safety on without decocking the gun

plus the position of the safety to begin with, its in a place where you can easily turn it on and off without accidentally putting it on like what can happen with trainees on the Beretta 92, walther P38/PPK series and the 39 series for that matter.

where atleast with the beretta they accidentally turned on the safety when pulling the slide back to rack the slide, probably with the trained tap and rack method, meaning instead of pulling directly back they were pushing down on the safety and pulling back the slide, or for that matter pulling up and back like I do on my p38.

All,

All points are indeed salient. I like the 1911, the K, L and N-frames, the Beretta, the SIG and of late the 3rd Gens. They are ALL good guns.

I prefer to think of myself as being able to shoot all of them with an open mind. With that said, there was a time in my life when I was a 'revolver guy' and a '1911 o-file'. That's changed. I now enjoy shooting all of them.

I recognize the strengths and limitations of all of them, but prefer the durability, reliability and inherent safety (for a mechanical device) that the 3rd Gen offers. I have not had one malfunction on me yet. Yes, they DO feed empty cases.

The 1911 is a wonderful design. JMB should be indeed proud that his basic design has its primacy in the firearms world. My old duty Les Baer TR Special is in my view the best of the modern 1911.

I have to confess that I always thought that the S&W autos were of bad quality. That is most likely due to the issues of the early 39/59s. Funny how a stigma follows for decades afterwards.

My local gunsmith showed me his Russian T34 tank-like 4506. The heft and the redundancy built into it is awe-inspiring. His has digested thousands of rounds with nary a hiccup.

I have purchased five (5) 3rd Gens (two 4566s, two 4003TSWs and one 645) within the last year. I feel VERY well armed.

As much as I enjoy customizing my firearms, I am put off by the lack of bad manners the 3rd Gens display. Just when I think I can do something that they don't have, I'm thwarted. Looks like Wayne Novak working under the aegis of the Auto Improvement Program in the late 80s paid off.

When I leave the Corps, I want to get back into L.E. The S&W 4566 will be my 'go-to' gun. I also train with the Model 28, Beretta 92 (custom) and the 4003s for good measure. The wife is the new owner of the Baer. The Les Baer TR Special that I carried in the Denver-metro area in the late 90s still serves, albeit as her house gun. The Dawson Rail and the SureFire W117 (MARSOC light) is her 'bump-in-the-night' insurance.

Bottom Line: They're all good. I just happen to prefer the S&W 3rd Gens to all others.

My meager collection contains several of each.

I have a collection of both and have been carrying the small, 1911 sub compact lately.

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JR

My second or third handgun was a 1911 and have been in love with them ever since. I had been on the look out for an accurate, all steel 9mm for a while and recently picked up a police trade in 5906. I thought this gun was perfect and everything I was looking for, until my first range trip. My first range trip with a pistol is to check that all the magazines function and start with 1 round then two and so on up to five rounds per magazine and then shoot for groups 5 shots at a time. I shot less then 50 rounds through it that first trip before putting it away and shooting the 1911 for the rest of the range session. This was my first DA/SA gun and I really dislike the DA/SA!

I can shoot my striker fired DAO M&P and revolvers in DA without a problem. It's just that initial DA then SA that's just not right to me. The next range trip I tried shooting the 5906 in 5 round groups once more and this time shot less then 20 rounds before packing it away. I really am seriously considering selling it only because of the DA/SA trigger.

Markush, perhaps a nice 5946 will solve your problems? I find that I REALY like the consistent trigger pull on the dao's.

Matt

I guess you could say I made the switch. I've owned a few 1911s over the years. I've had AMT, Norinco, Colt, any my final 1911 was an American Classic II. The ACII was the only one that actually worked to a degree that is was totally reliable and accurate. My final conclusion on the 1911 is that IF it works up to its potential you can expect it to be as reliable and accurate as a Glock, S&W, SIG, etc.....but chances are you are going to spend much more money to get it. I sold my ACII to buy a 3913. Now I have a 5906, a 3913, and I plan on getting more. No more 1911s for me.

I have 3rd gen's in 9mm/40/10 & 45. I still like the 1911 platform better. More ergonomic and lower barrel profile means more comfortable shooting.

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S&W Accumulator