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Old 05-06-2012, 05:55 PM
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Default S&W 4013 Barrel Damaging Frame

Hi everyone!

This is my first post on this forum. Been visiting a while and learning lots and lots from all the valuable and educational posts in these forums. I just recently picked up a 4013 from a buddy of mine. I took it out to the range yesterday and shot 100 rounds of Winchester 165 and 50 rounds of Federal 180, both from Wally World. No problems whatsoever, and the gun seemed to cycle just fine. Lots of fun I disassembled firearm to clean today, and I noticed some interesting and alarming wear marks on the frame, where the barrel meets/rests against it. I am fairly new to guns, so my vocabulary isn't up to par, so I highlighted the area in my attached pictures. Any thoughts about this? As you can see, held in right hand, index finger side is the worst, with top corner being gone. Other side isn't as bad, but does show signs of wear as well. Is this a sign of bad things to come? Has anyone else experienced this on their alloy framed Smith? Thanks for any input.
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:19 PM
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My 4013TSW has the same damage. I'm not worried about it..I suspect that it's normal.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:41 PM
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My 3913 has the same damage, although no where near as bad. I suspect your 4013 has way more rounds through it.
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:12 PM
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I've got a CS45 that is showing wear in that area and probably has been shot alot. Neither my CS9 or CS40 is showing any wear but then they've been shot very little
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:24 PM
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Most alloy frames will show wear there and on top of the rails where the barrel rides during recoil. I would install a new recoil spring just to be on the safe side. Later 4013s' used a dual spring, which is only available from S&W. If your gun has the single you can get it from S&W or Wolff.
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:26 PM
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Default Heavier springs for the dual recoil spring set-up

Wolff has heavy duty springs that will replace the outer spring in a dual recoil spring set-up.
I use them in my 4013 single stack to 10mm conversions.
Please read the thread:
1013/4013 Here it is, history in the making & 4516-1, -2, 4536 and 457 in 10 m.m.
Wolff #477XX, I use a 47723 in my 4013/10mm and a factory stock inner.
See pictures in post #1.
•Reduced Power...: 15 Lb.
•Factory Standard.: 16 Lb.
•Extra Power........: 17, 19, 21 & 23 Lb.
See post #45 for the dual spring conversion.
S&W will not sell you a bushing to utilize the smaller guide rod with the dual spring.
That was done to use up existing slides with the bigger hole in them when they made a revision change to the spring design.
And also updated, only if the gun was returned to the factory for a repair.
I have made some for a few people that wanted to go with the dual spring-heavy duty set up.
I have a few more left and a longer guide rod was still available a little while ago, it just had to be shortened.
Regards,
BM1

Last edited by bad_man_ one; 05-06-2012 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:49 PM
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Thanks for all the responses, much appreciated! So I was checking out the Wolff springs... mine has a single recoil spring, and I see that factory is 16 lbs. What are the benefits of going up to 17 lbs.?
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handgunner356 View Post
Most alloy frames will show wear there and on top of the rails where the barrel rides during recoil. I would install a new recoil spring just to be on the safe side. Later 4013s' used a dual spring, which is only available from S&W. If your gun has the single you can get it from S&W or Wolff.
Also, what are the signs of a failing recoil spring? Thanks.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:09 AM
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I have a 4013 that I bought new in 1995. It has only been shot around 500 to 700 rounds using standard .40 S&W, no hot stuff. It has the dual recoil spring setup. It shows no such wear like that. In fact, it has only very slight wear. By the way, springs are cheap in the long run, so I replace them more often then I probably need to. FWIW
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Dick View Post
I have a 4013 that I bought new in 1995. It has only been shot around 500 to 700 rounds using standard .40 S&W, no hot stuff. It has the dual recoil spring setup. It shows no such wear like that. In fact, it has only very slight wear. By the way, springs are cheap in the long run, so I replace them more often then I probably need to. FWIW
Do you have a preferred vendor for your spring needs?
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by presspics View Post
My 4013TSW has the same damage. I'm not worried about it..I suspect that it's normal.
Do you shoot your 4013 often?
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:00 AM
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Back when the 4013TSW came out I bought none. After I'd fired a little more than 2,500 rounds through mine I noticed some peening down inside the frame's barrel camming surfaces.

I showed it to a rep from S&W one day and he told his own 4003TSW's (aluminum framed full-size .40's) had the same type and amount of peening ... except they'd both been fired about 25,000 rounds each (competition guns).

He said it wasn't uncommon in the alloy guns and usually reached a point where it didn't get any worse. Mine remained the same for many more rounds, but I haven't used that gun for several years. I carried an issued one for a short while, and it quickly developed some similar peening/marking, but like my own 4013TSW, it continued to run normally.

This is my 4013TSW frame at the present time:



My other alloy framed 3rd gen's have similar peening, to greater or lesser amounts (9's/.45's).

The part that would bother me is the missing chunk at the top of the lug on one side of the poster's 4013 (based on what's visible in one of the pictures). Never saw that before.

I wouldn't shoot this particular 4013 further until the factory had examined it and determined it was safe to continue to use.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:31 PM
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This is an interesting post or problem. I have three 4013's, the single stack on .45 frame, the 4013 TSW non rail, and the 4013 rail TSW(.40tactical). The the single stack shows more peening of the locking lug. The original posters pictures are of the single stack I assume. What is a big difference between them all is the barrel configuration. In the attached pictures, the barrel on the right is the single stack, it is 43% heavier than the TSW's 3.20 oz vs 2.24 oz. even with the milled slab sides. On the single stack barrel the locking lugs have a small chamfer or bevel on the edges, which reduce the contact area and shows on the alloy frame. I am not sure if this was a factory bevel or something a previous owner might have done.



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Old 05-07-2012, 08:32 PM
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I am glad I put a buffer in mine, I hope it will slow down or stop this type of wear. What do you guys think?
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy423 View Post
Do you have a preferred vendor for your spring needs?
As for the dual spring set, since I have four pistols that use them (4516-1, 4516-2, 4013 and 4014), I order S&W springs both directly from S&W and Brownell. As for single recoil springs, I get mine from Wolff. I usually go with extra power recoil springs not more than 2 lbs. over factory, e.g., 19 lb in the 4566 instead of 17 lbs. factory, 17 lbs. in the 3913 instead of 15 lbs. factory. You get the idea.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:42 AM
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Yes you are correct, my pics are of a single stack 4013. My barrel looks similar to yours with the beefier body. After talking to a Smith rep yesterday, he says my 1993 pistol is still safe to shoot, but the pictures I sent him (same seen here) tells him that it's getting to the end of it's service life. He didn't say how much life left, but to keep an eye on those cams, the slide wear as a result of cam wear, and help extend the life with that TLC the previous owners failed to provide. Oh well... it was FUN FUN FUN to shoot 150 rds through it on Saturday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcode View Post
This is an interesting post or problem. I have three 4013's, the single stack on .45 frame, the 4013 TSW non rail, and the 4013 rail TSW(.40tactical). The the single stack shows more peening of the locking lug. The original posters pictures are of the single stack I assume. What is a big difference between them all is the barrel configuration. In the attached pictures, the barrel on the right is the single stack, it is 43% heavier than the TSW's 3.20 oz vs 2.24 oz. even with the milled slab sides. On the single stack barrel the locking lugs have a small chamfer or bevel on the edges, which reduce the contact area and shows on the alloy frame. I am not sure if this was a factory bevel or something a previous owner might have done.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Dick View Post
As for the dual spring set, since I have four pistols that use them (4516-1, 4516-2, 4013 and 4014), I order S&W springs both directly from S&W and Brownell. As for single recoil springs, I get mine from Wolff. I usually go with extra power recoil springs not more than 2 lbs. over factory, e.g., 19 lb in the 4566 instead of 17 lbs. factory, 17 lbs. in the 3913 instead of 15 lbs. factory. You get the idea.
Thanks for your info... I'll def order new recoil spring ASAP.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:46 AM
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Can you please explain what you mean by buffer? Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken4 View Post
I am glad I put a buffer in mine, I hope it will slow down or stop this type of wear. What do you guys think?
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:10 PM
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Guitarguy, out of curiosity, does your barrel have the chamfers on the locking lugs like the ones in my picture?
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcode View Post
Guitarguy, out of curiosity, does your barrel have the chamfers on the locking lugs like the ones in my picture?
I've attached 2 pics I just took. Hope this answers your question. Sorry they're sideways... stupid phone LOL
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcode View Post
Guitarguy, out of curiosity, does your barrel have the chamfers on the locking lugs like the ones in my picture?
I've not seen that sort of beveling on the barrel's cam lugs, myself.

I have, however, done something similar in order to remove any overly sharp edges or burrs that might be in those spots.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy423 View Post
Can you please explain what you mean by buffer? Thanks.
It is called a recoil buffer, a small plastic piece that goes around the recoil spring inside the slide and when the slide is cycled all the way back the buffer takes the impact instead of metal to metal. $10 from Buffer Tech.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken4 View Post
It is called a recoil buffer, a small plastic piece that goes around the recoil spring inside the slide and when the slide is cycled all the way back the buffer takes the impact instead of metal to metal. $10 from Buffer Tech.
That's a malfunction just waiting to happen. I wouldn't use those things in any pistol I have. I've had FTRTB issues in 1911's using those "Shok Buffs" before and in a S&W, IMHO, they're all but useless. You're not going to destroy any pistol by not using them. If that were the case, S&W would have provided them or redesigned their pistols.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:48 PM
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Some people are for these buffers and some against. I now understand what is meant by a malfunction waiting to happen. It works well in my 3913 at the range. But after reading and thinking about the cons of this buffer I would remove it if I was to use the gun for self protection. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken4 View Post
Some people are for these buffers and some against. I now understand what is meant by a malfunction waiting to happen. It works well in my 3913 at the range. But after reading and thinking about the cons of this buffer I would remove it if I was to use the gun for self protection. Thanks for the advice.
I just want to add a quick data point to the buffer discussion. I realize that this is an old thread, but if anyone does a search, this might be useful.

I recently installed the buffer in question on a 3914LS. I then used the pistol for two classes, with a combined round count of about 750 rounds for both classes. I was using Tennessee Cartridge reload ammo, 115gr FMJ.

The pistol did not have a single hick-up, unless it was done on purpose during malfunction drills.

Andrew
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:54 PM
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Thanks for digging up this thread, I've never seen it. I just looked at the 6906 I bought and it has no wear in that area, which makes me think maybe it hasn't been fired much. I'll know now to check all my third gens.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:04 PM
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Maybe I'm just lucky, but mine hasen't shown any of that wear and tear. I got the 4013. Mine's a TVF series model number though. Not sure whether or not that makes a difference. Still learning about mine. I bought it off a retired Police Investigator. It was his carry piece. I know he put quite a few rounds through it, and I've put at least 1000 through it since I've had it.

I will say though, you might like to upgrade your grips though from those standard plastic one's. I have Hogue grips on mine, thats how i got it. I love 'em.
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Last edited by 1backdraft1; 12-04-2012 at 11:12 PM.
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