SW Thread

I am a S/W first timer. Been a Ruger guy but decided I would try the 1911 E-Series/SC with the Bobtail configuration. Does S/W have any quality control? I am sending the gun back in without firing a shot. From the rear sight set screw being put in crooked (can’t remove or move it) to the slide lock latch being impossible to release when engaged. They only way to disengage is with it in your lap and a wooden stick. The Scandium Alloy-Black Anodized Finish is spotty and has white spots where it did not “take” and is so “tender” and easily scratched, that it acts like they used a can of black flat spray paint. Unfortunately, I had to order this and pre pay, sight unseen, due to lack of availability.

Four calls to customer service resulted in employees who have no idea what so ever. Three could not even find a part # for an extra magazine. Then I got a manager who’s excuse was they had a lot of new people and the gun was so new they did not have a parts list. I think its been around for over a year in non-bobtail form. I’m Stuck with it or sell it at a loss. Is this their new quality standard? The Ruger is less than ½ the price. Customers who spend close to $1500 on a gun deserve better.

Yes they do!! it's frustrating at best.

I hope S&W makes it right for you.

I'll not defend S&W in this case, but Ruger's reputation isn't stellar either....

One of the reasons that I haven't bought a brand new gun in 12 years...

You are not stuck with it, send back and have it fixed under warranty, then sell it if you are unhappy with it.

It sounds like you got a bad gun, that stinks. I would not have accepted it from the dealer in that condition. The dealer, whoever it is must not be much of a seller or they would have never sold it to you.

Judging an entire gun line by one gun though is off base, though I understand you anger. All mass gun manufacturers make some duds, that's unfortunate, but true.

Do you have any picture of said pistol?

This may be a stupid question but did you have the magazine in it when you tried to release the slide?

James

I bought their Performance Center 1911 a couple of years ago and it broke down in the middle of my state championship. I would not blame it fully on S&W because it was my fault for not inspecting the pistol completely before a competition. But, still, it was a pistol that was less than 6 months old and one would not expect such a thing to happen to a PC gun and it did. I sent it back and they fixed it. Talk about wound, now that's a wound.

One thing I learned from this incident is to buy a gun from a manufacturer who is famous for that type of gun and for that matter, anything you buy. Pick a manufacturer who is legendary and really dominant in this type of gun. For 1911's, the 2 largest and most dominant are Kimber and Springfield Armory. I wouldn't say that they produce 100% fault-free products but I can bet that there are less problems which I would consider basic to crop up in their 1911 products.

Springfield Armory...OK...maybe so

Kimber? No thank you

Colt...definitely!

Absolutely Correct.

IMO its hard to tell if the gun left the factory in that condition, If you follow my drift!! And I am not refering about you, just many things could have happened.

I am sure that with it being new they will take care of it. Best of luck and give the guys a chance to service you.

No need to bash any other brand, this is about S&W and this man spend his money in good faith. I would be upset myself.

I feel your pain and it sucks that you got such a bad firearm.
S&W 1911's are very hard to get. One of my favorite GS's can't get them and they have been trying for over 6 months.

Did you buy it over the net? Good luck if you did.

Plus 1 StatesRightist!!!!!

Plus 1 for Colt.

Frank that is a bum deal. Send it back under factory warranty. That doesn't excuse the poor quality in the 1st place. But it's your only avenue to make the gun right so you can either sell it or enjoy it. Pics would be nice so we can see how bad that finish is. Maybe someone at least can explain what happened. Even if it's still a bummer for you. Good luck.
BTW I bought a new Ruger SR9C in December and had to return it because it was faulty. It happens. Not fun when it does. No excuses for any company.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

not true......contact S&W and tell them the problem. S&W will stand behind their product and make it right. give them a chance before bashing.

remember, there is nothing perfect in the world.

Kimber??? The company famous for it's 800 round "break in" and blaming limp wristing for every defect. NO THANK YOU.

Now, Springfield Armory builds a very good 1911 and has a sterling reputation for customer service. However, their 1911's are darned difficult to find and the waiting list for one ordered can be long. As a result of this you have to shop at a big box retailier like Cabela's and pay a premium price.

My choice oddly enough was a Ruger SR1911 and I am quite satisfied with it at this point. Well made, accurate, and perfect reliability out of the box for it's first 200 rounds today.

As for the OP's issues, Smith & Wesson has a very good reputation for customer service. Unfortunately, EVERY gun maker of quality firearms is currently getting SLAMMED with demand, to the point were Ruger has stopped taking orders for new product. One result of this is that quality issues will be more common. It's a result of manufacturer shipping product that is a bit borderline in some cases. In other cases it a result of quality control people having to deal with a workload that has basically been doubled. End result is that more lemons will get shipped.

Good news is that S&W does have an excellent reputation for fixing it's mistakes and they also have a reputation for doing it quite quickly. Send you gun back and they'll refinish the frame, install a new rear sight and likely have it back in your hand in under 3 weeks. However, I'll warn you right now that the black finish on S&W's Scandium frames has a reputation for spotting. I suspect that it's sensitive to some solvents and would recomend you only use dish soap on your frame.

No excuse for a miss-threaded screw. I'd return it for correction/repair. They'll make good on it under their warranty service (and not charge you for shipping & insurance like most other firearms manufacturers).

The 1911's (except for the PC guns) will be forwarded to Houlton for repair. (Like is generally being done with the 3rd gen's returned for repair, as well as the .22's and licensed Walther PPk's.)

If you're trying to release the slide stop lever from the up/engaged position with an empty magazine in the gun, it's normal for it to be very difficult to push down. (My SW1911 and most of my Colts do the same thing, and they're all in normal/good condition. (I don't release the slide to run forward on an empty chamber, anyway. Not on 1911's. Old habit. Only when there's a magazine containing ammunition in the gun - for normally feeding/loading the chamber - and then the slide stop lever ought to be able to be depressed with normal pressure, as intended.)

It's been normal for the company not to list the SW1911 parts in the publicly accessible parts lists.

Also, bear in mind that you're probably talking to one of the 15-30+ people manning the Springfield customer service desks (depending on the day), and the SW1911/E series guns are made and serviced in the Houlton factory. When you call the general customer service lines you never know if you're getting a long-time experienced employee who may have formerly worked in production, assembly, training, etc, or a relatively new employee (with maybe no firearms experience or other company background) who has to field questions for not only their firearms, but all their other services and products.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

That hasn't been my experience, nor is it the general consensus on any forums I belong to...

You can Google and find several pages of internet posts questioning Ruger's quality lately or any other manufacturers for that matter, try it. I'm not saying it's a fact, but QC seems to be the latest rage point for them all. There are multiple strings of articles on Ruger's quality issues on THR and Firing Line among others.

I don't bring this up to down Ruger, they make great guns IMO. I bring it up to say QC issue claims for S&W, SIG, RUGER are like the dreaded lock failure discussion. A whole lot of hype around a statistically insignificant issue. They happen, but at no where near the level internet lore would have you believe. JMO.

I believe S&W will make it right also. When you send it in please keep us informed on what happens and how the gun turns out.
Thanks for the post.

BTW, I'm a longtime Ruger owner & enthusiast. I still have have the Ruger Standard .22 pistol my father gave me when I was young. I've owned more Rugers than I have any other brand of firearm.

Their firearms are still just machines, though.

I've had to have more Rugers returned for repair, or had to repair them myself, than any other brand of firearm I own.

The first Ruger I bought for myself (instead of being gifts from my father), a '73 Super Blackhawk, had to to be returned for repair. My KP90 required a new slide (improper heat treat, I was told) ... my Redhawk a new hammer, cylinder & trigger assembly ... a Mk II Bull Barrel had a problem ... a couple of Security-Sixes & Blackhawks ... a SP101, and those are just off the top of my head at the moment. More of them worked as intended and were fine, but I had issues with them periodically. Not surprising, considering I was buying so many of them.

I know another instructor who had to return a M77 for repair.

I haven't bought a new Ruger firearm since back in the 90's, but I'd hope they're QC hasn't gotten any worse.

Ruger has always been pretty good to deal with for warranty issues, and I'd rate them right up there with S&W for the quality of the customer service (both being among the very best in the industry).

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I have to agree I have used both S&W and Rugers CS to have warranty issues delt with and both were steller in repairing said guns.

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The Lord cometh and right soon

Frank started this with a single post. Where is Frank? I have been fortunate and only had to send one pistol back, a Kel-Tec of all things, and the shop did it for me.

I must have one of the few good Kimbers. Other than the pivot pin on the bomar type sight wanting to drift out, I have not had one FTF, jam, bobble or hickup right out of the box and it was my first 1911.

Just wanted to add my two cents on CS- both Ruger and S7W. dealt with both more than once, totally happy. As scooter said, with the sales going wild again, manufacturers are slammed- and someone else mentioned, they're hiring new folks, and you have toe xpect new ones to answer the phones- not fit a slide to a frame. So not surprising you talked to less-than-perfect reps. I don't mean this in a bad way, but hopefully you didn't get angry with the slide release, or the screw, and tear the finish up- S&W will fix about anything, but if there are marks from trying to release the slide- whatever- they may balk at that one. As for the screw and the release, I have no doubt they'll help you out. Email CS, ask for a shipping label- they usually have better folks working THAT desk in my experience. May take a day- or three- but they do it.

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No work? No eat. 2 Thes

Go here:

Warranty Repair Shipping Form

and fill out the form and they will send you a FedEx tag and instructions on how to send it in. I did for my wife's Sigma 9F and they sent an email with the tag to print out and instructions on how to send via FedEx. And they did it within a day or two of me submitting the form. And to top it off, my wife is not the original owner. We bought it used from a local gun shop.

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G21C,Shield.40,LCP

First post, no return. I'm calling BS without pictures. Sounds like someone wanted to do just what happened. Opened up the who's best, and worst debate and run.

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God, country, family.

I have a brand new S&W 1911 .45 and it won't feed FMJ ammo well at all. I looked at the feed ramp and it looks like it was cut out with a hacksaw. I was disappointed to say the least; it's stainless steel with wood grips. I paid about $1150 for the gun. I think I'll try and polish the feed ramp myself or just send the bbl back to Smith. Maybe this gun is only supposed to be used for hollowpoints?
If you want a superb quality gun at a fantastic price, try the CZ 75B in polished stainless steel; with a trigger job, night sights cost me about $900 and in quality, fit and finish it is far superior to the Smith 1911. It's really in another category entirely, especially with the rounding of edges. What manufacturing is doing, more than anything else, is selling their reputation for quality by trying to maximize the number of guns sold. So they send them out the door without a decent inspection. I would not buy Kimber junk, Colt junk and I'll have to think long and hard about buying anything new from Smith. Doesn't mean I'll stop collecting the old but by golly, I've lost my desire for new Smith stuff.

Come on man, is that the way we welcome new members to the S&W family? No its not. Frank Bullett i hope and believe that S&W will make this right for you. Best of luck and i hope they make it right soon. Do please keep us updated on the matter.

bp

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Aim small miss small

Just a couple of things to think about....

In the past 48 hours, I've seen multiple ****-on-S&W posts on various forums, all from different nicknames, most with recent join-dates on the sites where the posts took place (within the last 2 months). 1911forum is another place that's seen such activity in recent days.

As I see it, one of two things is happening here:

1. S&W is struggling to keep up with demand, and is sending things out the door that shouldn't.

or

2. There is an orchestrated smear campaign going on.

I would be more inclined to go either way on this, but the thing that really, really bugs me is the "elephant in the room" in every single thread that has shown up in the past 2 days: NO PICS highlighting the problems.


So I'm not accusing the OP here, because I know that problems DO happen. I am, however, begging the OP... PLEASE SHOW US SOME PHOTOS! Nobody else on the other threads I've seen around seems able to do so. When problems come up, most people show pics, and gun-enthusiasts like us discuss what we see. In short -- we'd all like to see some samples. It's by far the best way to prove your point.

I agree with your assessment of SA and Kimber. SA is iffy and kimber is a definite NO.
In addition to Colt I would add Dan Wesson to the list of quality 1911 producers.

There's always Kimber basher's here'bouts, but you know the old sayin, a picture is worth a thousand word's



My Kimber has always ran like a top.

Smokey, I'm not impressed, because I don't see a single hole in that cup. Heck, even I could hit that thing and put at least one hole in it!

Smokey, be careful with what you post...

With such a low post count you will be accused of winning all of those trophies with a S&W revolver and then taking the photo with you Kimber!!!

Nice shootin' by the way.

Edmo

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TRUTH: Don't delete my posts!

I hate to hijack anything, but since its already been done, congratulations smokey, you may have one of the 10 kimbers in existence that dont jam like crazy.

I would be shooting a smith revolver,in fact used to years ago, but the matches are scored straight up, with revolvers only recieving a two second reduction for each reload, and im no Jerry Miculek, not even the same ball park, so to be somewhat competetive, i purchased a 1911,
it just happened to be a Kimber,
I cant vouch for all of the other Kimbers out there, but mine has done well so far.

I have three Kimbers. All bought new. All are the pre series 11's. Only trouble I've had was to replace the recoil spring in the compact. Don't know how many rounds I shot in it before it needed a new spring. At least a box every month for about 7 or 8 years. All three have be good and trouble free.

Kimber has started to get a poor quality name here in Canada as well at many of our gunclubs. Too many problems with the newer ones and we have a lot more legal garbage to go thru to send stuff back as well most of the time. They charge bigtime for a high end product but are not giving us that in the last few years its seems at all.

For those who say S&W has no QC department, your wrong. They hire new QC inspectors all the time. Every time someone buys a new gun, they just hired a new QC inspector.

The truth be told, that is a de facto result of being in business. It just that some Corporations do more consumer beta testing than others with a major culprit being Microsoft.

Bruce

I have nine 1911s in my safe, eight of which are Colts, and one which is a beautiful semi-custom from a very well-known company, for which I waited five months and paid about $1600 seven years ago.

I broke this pistol in very carefully, per the manufacturer's instructions, and it is wonderfully accurate, but reliable only with FMJ ammo; it simply refuses to feed hollowpoints consistently, with at least one, and sometimes more, FTF per magazine. No, I haven't sent it back to the manufacturer: they have a reputation for spotty service, and I don't feel like spending a small fortune to ship it to them so that can try to do over what they should have done correctly in the first place. So I shoot FMJ only in it, and admire it for the beautiful piece it is.

Of the eight Colts, one is a 1991A1, one of the first ones made when they introduced that model about 20 years ago. I paid about $350 for it, IIRC, and have put thousands of rounds downrange over the years...without a single failure to feed, fire, extract, or eject any load I've fed it.

If you want a 1911, buy a Colt...

I just purchased one of these yesterday, and ironically came here to look to see if people were having the same issue, as the pressure to release the slide stop with either no mag inserted or a full mag inserted is a little ridiculous. Now I'm not saying I'm some he-man, but I rock climb 3 nights a week, and generally have zero issues with every other firearm I own, including a Springfield TRP, so I'm not unfamiliar with manual of operations of a 1911.

I actually have to use my off hand to release it, and I don't know the pressure I'm exerting, but it isn't what I would call reasonable.

As far as the rest of the gun, the finish beneath the safety on the left side is already worn through in several spots, and there is a nasty burr on one side of the front sight dovetail that my finger painfully found the first time I was cleaning it off with a thin patch with some Rem-oil on it. I'll post some pics when I get a chance, and I don't know if it is worth sending it in since I'm not sure what they would do to make the slide release force required what I would call reasonable.

Two things -

1. It is a slide stop, not a slide release.
2. When you release the slide, you really shouldn't be using the slide stop to release it. At least that's what I've learned as doing so can wear it down and cause it to not hold like it should. If you have only one hand available at the time, then perhaps, but on a regular basis you should pull the slide back and release it.

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G21C,Shield.40,LCP