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Old 08-23-2017, 08:07 PM
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I am sure most on the auto forum are well aware that the popular model 6906 pistol should really be a model 6903, based on the 4 digit model numbering system. Stainless slide on alloy frame. I have never seen a definitive answer on exactly why. Was it a deliberate decision, or just a screw up?

Are there other mis-numbered models? Our mythical missing links, so to speak?
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:24 PM
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Actually, it should be a 6913, because it's a compact, not a full size gun.

My theory has been that S&W decided on that number so that they could market it as a companion gun to the 5906 for chiefs, officers, and detectives. They didn't want to confuse the chiefs by having numbers that were too different.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
Actually, it should be a 6913, because it's a compact, not a full size gun.

My theory has been that S&W decided on that number so that they could market it as a companion gun to the 5906 for chiefs, officers, and detectives. They didn't want to confuse the chiefs by having numbers that were too different.
I think that adds even more confusion to the issue (not from you, from S&W). In that case, what would the 69 reference? I thought that was the carry over "compact" designation from the 469/669? The chiefs confusion issue makes sense, if that was the rationale. At least that would be a reasoned out decision with some logic.

If it should have been 6913, then the 69 is redundant. Would it not have then been a 5913? Just trying to make sense of it, from a collectors curiosity POV.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:48 PM
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I'd say that GaryS' explanation is about as good as any. And while true enthusiasts can (usually, mostly) decode the 3rd Gen model number system, you would have to be a true "company man" apologist to describe this system as anything other then a very well executed mistake. An idea that sounded far better in theory than in practice and (especially with the Value Line 3rd Gens) really serves large doses of confusion.

It must have wreaked havoc on gun shops in selling to end-buyers. It probably helped to stunt the sales of some models, too.

The confusion of the model numbering system is one thing that most of us actually agree on! And by saying that out loud, it's like broadcasting a world-wide Bat Signal to those who disagree with my assessment. Hahaha.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:50 PM
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Since you brought up the 469/669, let's be sure to point out that the alloy framed 669 already broke the rules by having the "6" first digit. Should have been black and silver 469's and done.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:59 PM
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Here's a previous discussion - Why "6906" and not "6903"???
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:01 PM
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59xx designated full size frame 9mm double stack.
69xx designated compact size frame 9mm double stack.
39xx designated 9mm single stack. Which got confusing because the 3904/06 and never released 3944/46 DAO guns were full size, while everything else in the series was a compact single stack.

The third digit in the numbering scheme designated the barrel length or other feature. 5913 wouldn't make sense since the 59xx guns were full size.

Even the 5903SSV isn't a proper number, because it had a slide and barrel from the compacts 9mm.

There are logical inconsistencies in the numbering system. I think that the 4506 had a 5" barrel, and the 4566 had a 4 (or 4 1/2 inch) barrel.

We could, and have in the past, pondered the inponderables on the 3rd Gen model numbering system.

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I think that adds even more confusion to the issue (not from you, from S&W). In that case, what would the 69 reference? I thought that was the carry over "compact" designation from the 469/669? The chiefs confusion issue makes sense, if that was the rationale. At least that would be a reasoned out decision with some logic.

If it should have been 6913, then the 69 is redundant. Would it not have then been a 5913? Just trying to make sense of it, from a collectors curiosity POV.
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:06 PM
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I'm not sure about the 6906 but I do know my favorite gun is a 5906. Maybe close to the cheapest one I own but it served a decade and half with the FHP and it is smooth as butter. I own several handguns from S&W to Sigs and it is still my favorite.
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:09 PM
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The Value Line numbering system is simple in comparison.
The first digit indicates the caliber. Well, except for the 457, where the first TWO digits indicate the caliber.

The second and third digits indicate the magazine capacity.
915 being a 15 round double stack, but the 910 being the post ban 10 round double stack.

I know that the later, post ban Value Line guns had engineering changes, but there is nothing in the numbering scheme to indicate that. You have to know the guns to know the differences.

As I said, we can go on and on about this trivia. And have.

I seem to remember reading a comment or two on this forum about "model wheel" to help people figure out what features what guns had. Sort of like "You can't tell the players without a program."

I think someone once referred to the spawning of all those different models as "The Smith and Wesson model of the month."

I also wonder why they never made a single stack compact with a frame mounted decocker. Which of course would have been the 3933. Maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
I'd say that GaryS' explanation is about as good as any. And while true enthusiasts can (usually, mostly) decode the 3rd Gen model number system, you would have to be a true "company man" apologist to describe this system as anything other then a very well executed mistake. An idea that sounded far better in theory than in practice and (especially with the Value Line 3rd Gens) really serves large doses of confusion.

It must have wreaked havoc on gun shops in selling to end-buyers. It probably helped to stunt the sales of some models, too.

The confusion of the model numbering system is one thing that most of us actually agree on! And by saying that out loud, it's like broadcasting a world-wide Bat Signal to those who disagree with my assessment. Hahaha.
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:10 PM
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It's my favorite to shoot, but not to carry. That gun downright makes me look like a pistolero.

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Originally Posted by WPB5906 View Post
I'm not sure about the 6906 but I do know my favorite gun is a 5906. Maybe close to the cheapest one I own but it served a decade and half with the FHP and it is smooth as butter. I own several handguns from S&W to Sigs and it is still my favorite.
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
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I seem to remember reading a comment or two on this forum about "model wheel" to help people figure out what features what guns had. Sort of like "You can't tell the players without a program."
The cool "Whiz Wheel" is very informative (pictures are from google).
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:39 PM
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The cool "Whiz Wheel" is very informative (pictures are from google).
That is a neat collectible in its own right. Were they ever sold, or were they strictly a dealer item?
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:46 PM
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see them occasionally on fleabay,expensive and sell very quickly. I'm still searching for the 'whiz wheel'.
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:46 PM
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Thanks, I read through it. I think it raised as many questions as it answered, but informative nonetheless.
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:55 PM
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Well, you can make the argument that the Value Line numbering system makes sense, but it's almost like saying the .45 GAP was a great idea.

In reality, the .45 GAP was a great idea EXCEPT when you consider the hundred years of existence, success and unreal popularity of the .45 ACP which means that the .45 GAP was a face in the dirt failure.

The Value Line model numbering system makes sense on it's own, but further muddies the water of the original/irrational 3rd Gen model number system. Even to this day I'm sure that some see a Value Line and think "oh, 3 digits, must be a 2nd Gen!"

Smith & Wesson, far better at building semi-auto pistols than naming them.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:06 AM
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HOW ABOUT A 4503? THEY BUILT ONE. I'VE SEEN IT AND HELD IT. PRETTY COOL.

S&W DID MAKE A BATCH OF 4" 39 SERIES IN DAO. THEY WERE CALLED THE PRO-SERIES 3953.

ABOUT THE .45GAP.
IT'S NOT NEW. COLT FOR THE ITALIAN MARKET MADE AND SOLD THE 45P (PICO). IT WAS 1 MM SHORTER THAN THE .45ACP. WHY ? IN ITALY THEY COULD NOT OWN A PISTOL IN A MILITARY CALIBER. WHEN TAKING THE COLT 1911 ARMORERS COURSE THE GUNS YOU WORKED ON WERE 45P. SO NO LIVE .45 ACP ROUND WOULD CHAMBER NOR FIRE. JP
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
The Value Line numbering system is simple in comparison.
The first digit indicates the caliber. Well, except for the 457, where the first TWO digits indicate the caliber.

The second and third digits indicate the magazine capacity.
915 being a 15 round double stack, but the 910 being the post ban 10 round double stack.

I know that the later, post ban Value Line guns had engineering changes, but there is nothing in the numbering scheme to indicate that. You have to know the guns to know the differences.
Yup.

Owner (happily!) and original purchaser of a 411 (.40SW + 11 round mag) pre-ban. I've held and looked at a 410 (after the ban), but only for 15 - 20 mins in a chance encounter, and wasn't interested enough in guns to really note specifics.

I've read that the early 410s were identical to the 411, but with 10-round magazines. And I've also read that 410s were pretty similar to 411s, with some additional plastic / polymer parts (recoil guide rod, sights among others), but otherwise the same pistol. And I've also read that the 410 frame dimensions were slightly different, and the slide a fair bit different (in machining). Finally, I've read that they are exactly the same pistol.

I'm not sure any of the above is untrue. It seems to me that S&W introduces various changes over time without introducing a new model (as does virtually every manufacturer). Makes it all pretty fun if you're an interested historian or just someone seeking parts!
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