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Old 05-27-2012, 10:27 PM
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Default Model 457 - one recoil spring or two?

I recently picked up a Model 457 in pretty good shape. It has one recoil spring, which I figured is normal. However, in reading an online article from 2000 (Up Close and Personal: Part 2: Recoil Springs and Recoil Control), the reviewer states it uses two, plus he shows a double spring. But the manual that came with the gun only shows a single recoil spring. So ... am I missing the second counterwound recoil spring? I don't want to shoot this if I am missing a part. Please only answer if you're sure. Thanks.

Last edited by s&wchad; 05-28-2012 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:36 PM
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The correct answer is "maybe". S&W used both single and dual spring setups in the compact 40 & 45s'. Best way to tell is how tight is your spring to your guide rod. The dual spring setup requires a thinner rod for the smaller spring to work with, some converted early guns also had a bushing that is used in the front of the slide for the smaller rod to run in. The dual springs are only available through S&W, the single can be had from them or Wolff.
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:57 PM
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Thanks. The spring is tight when compressed, but I do notice it bows a little due to the thin nature of the guide rod vs. the spring, if you get my drift. In other words, the inside diameter of the spring is larger than the outside diameter of the guide rod, so the spring doesn't hug the rod tightly like a 1911. So .... do I just call S&W, give them the S/N, and they will be able to determine if I need one or two recoil springs? And will the gun reliably and safely work with just one? Or should I just go with two recoil springs and ask them to send me both? Thanks again.

Last edited by gunsrfun1; 05-27-2012 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:14 PM
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I think you have the wrong spring in that gun. The 4516-2 was introduced in 1994 and it had the dual recoil spring. The 457 was introduced in 1996 and I think it always had a dual recoil spring.

You should call S&W to get it straightened out.

Bill
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:18 PM
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Thanks, I will call them on Tuesday.
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:07 AM
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On both of my 457's they have one recoil spring. They are not tight to the recoil rod. Hope this helps and I would say you have the right spring on yours.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:16 AM
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My 457 has 2 springs. Not only that, but the rear part of the guide rod has what appears to be a spring-loaded tip that extends past the notch.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:52 AM
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This link was originally posted by Fastbolt:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...ist_Retail.pdf

It shows parts listing for the S&W semi-autos. The 457 only shows a dual spring setup. It is likely that if you have one loose spring that it was put on by someone who ordered a spring from Wolff springs. That is the only spring they have for the compacts. The dual spring setup has to come from S&W.

Gunsrfun1, please let us know what S&W says. BTW, I own a 457S with the dual spring setup, but it is a more recently manufactured gun.

Bill
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:23 PM
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Factory set up was two recoil springs on 4516, 4516-2 and -3 and 457. Only compact 45 S&W tried a single recoil spring on was the 4516-1 and that did not work out so well and they retro fitted the two spring set up if you started to have ejection problems. If you are using a single spring Wolff it would be a good idea to keep spares and change on a regular basis.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefjon View Post
My 457 has 2 springs. Not only that, but the rear part of the guide rod has what appears to be a spring-loaded tip that extends past the notch.
Ditto on this for both of mine.
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Old 05-28-2012, 04:40 PM
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The 457 & 4513TSW use the same set of inner/outer recoil springs as the 4013TSW & 4040PD. The springs are painted a light blue color.

This is what they look like ...



I've been told the company went with the dual, non-captured recoil springs in the compact 40's & 45's for a reason (after their experience with the early 4516's), and I prefer to stick with the factory recoil spring setup for my own 4513TSW, 4013TSW & 4040PD.

Also, the newer designed recoil guide rod assembly lacks the staked collar design of the older rods. In the earlier design the plunger & spring were held within the rod by the collar, which was staked to the rod body. The newer style no longer has a separate collar staked to the rod, but is a 1-piece unit in which a larger plunger & spring are simply inserted into the rear of the rod body.

This picture shows the new style (left) & old style (middle & right) rods. You can see the staking dimples on the old style rods. (Yes, sometimes they weren't perfect. I'm told they're done in a press, operated by hand, with 3 pairs of dimples staked into the rod.)


These pictures show some new style rods with the springs & plungers both installed and removed. The black plunger is plastic, and was used in the Chief's Special guns. Dunno if it was used in the 457's at some point. The shiny plunger is the steel one used in the non-staked guide rods in the TSW's. The small end of the springs are snapped onto the plunger, and the large end is turned/pushed into the rod body.



Personally, I don't have a particular preference for either plunger material, meaning plastic or steel, since both seemingly have their advantages and disadvantages. The plastic ones can get the ends a bit chewed up from frequent field-stripping & reassembly (engaging the slide stop tip, and the semi-circular plunger notch in the slide stop lever's pin), but any frayed plastic is easy to remove. The steel ones can sometimes develop a burred edge which may make removal & insertion of the slide stop assembly anywhere from stiff, to rather difficult.
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Last edited by Fastbolt; 05-28-2012 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 05:55 PM
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Fastbolt - I will call S&W as others have advised, but I have a question about the dual-spring photo you posted. Since the inner spring is shorter than the outer spring, I assume it will butt up against the collar of the guide rod rather than butting up against the front of the slide, correct? Or put another way, the position of the springs in the left photo show top=rear and bottom=front, correct? Just want to be sure in case they send me the springs that I install them properly. BTW, I have a metal guide rod with a plastic plunger. Thanks to all for their input on this.

Last edited by gunsrfun1; 05-28-2012 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunsrfun1 View Post
... I have a question about the dual-spring photo you posted. Since the inner spring is shorter than the outer spring, I assume it will butt up against the collar of the guide rod rather than butting up against the front of the slide, correct? Or put another way, the position of the springs in the left photo show top=rear and bottom=front, correct? Just want to be sure in case they send me the springs that I install them properly. BTW, I have a metal guide rod with a plastic plunger. Thanks to all for their input on this.
Yes, the "top" of the pictured nested springs would be at the "rear" of the rod body, against the raised collar of the rod, when I reassemble the gun.

Self-resolving issue, though. Compressing the "front" end of the springs into the slide's spring box (or dustcover, as it's sometimes called), and aligning the front of the rod into the slide's corresponding hole, shortens the outer spring quite a bit, too.

BTW, the last time I received some spare springs of this type they were shipped in separate plastic bags, long springs in one bag & short springs in another bag, each bag marked with the appropriate part number ... which makes sense when you consider they're listed as separate parts in the first place. Just put the inner spring inside the outer spring, and then slip them onto the guide rod together.
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Last edited by Fastbolt; 05-29-2012 at 03:12 AM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:48 PM
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If S&W does not have these springs in stock, you can get them from Midway for about the same cost.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:42 PM
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Thanks all. I called S&W yesterday and they are shipping me the two springs at no charge. Great customer service as always.
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:41 AM
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I have the 457 in stainless, and just to check, I field stripped it and seen mine also has 2 recoil springs. Happy shooting!!
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