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  #1  
Old 05-29-2012, 11:47 AM
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Default Kahr vs Smith

I just sold my Kahr CW9, what a *** this gun is, first off I had a mag drop out every third or so round. Kahr had to send a replacement, this seemed to take care of it. Then the recoil spring broke and I called Kahr and was told that they would not replace it, this is a two month old gun with just over the break in rounds though it. They said that Kahr springs do not break and that I had to send it in my dime about 25 bucks or so.
Then they asked what ammo I used and I said walmart federal and Ram ammo. The customer service rep than said he voided my warranty because I went and shot reloaded ammo in their gun. Glock and Smith and Ruger never have even close acted like this on the worst experience I have had with them. Smith sent me a new mag when I had trouble and did not even want a serial no. Glock sent me a new guide rod with spring because my 19 cracked. Smith and Wesson has some of the best CS I have ever experienced with any product. Ruger is a bit spotty but nothing like this.

I recommend anyone looking for a CCW to check out the Shield or Glock 26 and stay away from Kahr, they went from life time to 5 year warranty and now they use any excuse in the book to just tell you to go pound sand.
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Old 05-29-2012, 11:56 AM
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Well. I have carried and shot a kahr CW9 for a lot of years now and have never had any problem with it. I don't know of a better carry gun than the kahr. I have nothin against the S&W or Glock, they are all fine guns. I carried the Glock 26 for a while prior to my purchase of the kahr and it was certainly a good gun but it was so chunky that I felt like I had a 2x4 block attached to my belt.I believe that personal preference is the determining factor. I believe that your experience, as you have stated, is certainly not the norm.
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Old 05-29-2012, 12:04 PM
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My Kahr PM9 has been flawless. My P380 had some break-in issues, but has run fine since. I don't see a reason to buy another Kahr, but then again I don't plan to get rid of the ones I have-they are keepers!
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Old 05-29-2012, 12:10 PM
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I've got about 400 problem free rounds thru my CM9. It's not a bad little gun at all. But I have heard other stories about their CS and some QC issues from others.
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:11 PM
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I think this is the 5th or so forum I've read this on. We got it, you had a bad experiance with Kahr. Things happen. No company, NEVER EVER EVER EVER made any products 100% ALL THE TIME EVERY TIME. Its impossible. Before I sold my CW9 it ran flawlessly with thousands of different rounds including, wolf, Blazer, Iranian, +p and +p+. Never had one hiccup and never saw a cleaning brush or the slightes bit of oil. My friend has the smaller version and its been problem free.
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 125JHP View Post
I've got about 400 problem free rounds thru my CM9. It's not a bad little gun at all. But I have heard other stories about their CS and some QC issues from others.
Had many tell me the same thing, they love the Kahr, I can't really say its a bad gun and to be fair my problems were minor, but Kahrs Customer Service in my opinion sucks. My feeling is if Kahr will throw a customer under the bus for an 8 dollar recoil spring what happen if I really need them to step up to the plate. Where will they be when a frame cracks and there is not a poly gun that has not had a frame crack. I may never need CS on a large scale but if they are not there in the small things they will not be there in the large things.
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:49 PM
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Happy with my CW40, one of the most accurate plastic guns I've owned, would like to compare to others in a ransom rest, they're tight from the factory on purpose.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:09 PM
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I have gotten some PMs saying they totally agree with my problems and would love to post but Kahr lovers seem to try to beat anyone having problems down. I think this does not help the sport. Not pointing a finger at any paticular individual but I have seen this happen.
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:26 PM
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I have a CW45 and it has operated fine.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:18 PM
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Never had a problem with my MK9.
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edteach View Post
first off I had a mag drop out every third or so round . . . Then the recoil spring broke . . . Smith sent me a new mag when I had trouble . . . Glock sent me a new guide rod with spring because my 19 cracked.
What first occurred to me after reading your post was that *you* break a lot of guns.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:36 AM
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My limited experience with Kahr CS and my PM9 has been just the opposite of the OP.
The couple of times that I had to contact Kahr, they were extremely helpful. The one time that the pistol had to go back, at their request, they picked up the tab both ways.
I've had two mags replaced, no questions.
I broke a mag follower, they sent a replacement along with two spares!
I reported a minor problem/malfunction with a recoil assembly, I received two.
Maybe it's just the way in which you approach them?
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:13 AM
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I sent a 10 year old E-9 back to Kahr for some peening on the the slide. They replaced the black slide and barrel with stainless. No charge. I would have no problem buying another Kahr because of great service.
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edteach View Post
I have gotten some PMs saying they totally agree with my problems and would love to post but Kahr lovers seem to try to beat anyone having problems down.


You could copy and paste the body of these PM's from frightened Kahr owners anonymously.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:10 AM
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Kahr customer service treated me well when I needed them. I had some trouble with my K40's main spring when I first got it a couple years back. Kahr sent me a new spring via express mail, but it failed, too. So they sent me another main spring and a new guide rod. I am pretty sure they must have gotten a bad run of springs, but I have never had another hiccup.
But I guess I am one of those "Kahr Lovers." Two weeks ago, I shot TDI's Handgun II & III with my 14 year old Kahr E9. Since it is a carbon steel gun, it's finish has suffered over the years but it was a Singer sewing machine on the line. I got lot's of practice with mag changes, too!
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:40 AM
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Have had no problems with my cm9.I carry it iwb about 60 per cent of the time. I carry my s&w 469 when I can use a belt holster. They both do the job they are made for.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:03 AM
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Friends don't let friends buy Kahr. Worse CS I have ever experienced in 30 plus years of buying and selling firearms. New 1911 first time out front sight came off, trigger would not reset after firing a round essentually turning the pistol into a bolt action. Returned the pistol to Kahr, it ended up getting lost in their shop for over six weeks, when it was returned the work on the front sight appeared to have been done by a blacksmith. Pistol continued to have problems so I kept it in the shop as an example of Kahr quality. Finally sold it for parts.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasSTEP View Post
Can you share with me when Kahr made 1911's? I'm not familiar with it and can't find one on their website.

-TS

~~~~~~~~~~
They are made by Auto Ordnance which is just another name for Kahr. Same people, same address, same phone number.

Auto-Ordnance Technical Support

http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp#q1
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:27 PM
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I have a CW40 and I am one step away from a CW45

Aint SCEERD

Hank
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retarmyaviator View Post
They are made by Auto Ordnance which is just another name for Kahr. Same people, same address, same phone number.

Auto-Ordnance Technical Support

Questions & Answers
Thanks, I just now found the AO link... Appreciate the info!

-TS

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Old 05-31-2012, 12:35 AM
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Do your homework - Kahr owns a few well known companies including AO. What I am wondering is how all of these recoil spring guides are breaking? One gun maybe or even a problem with a model, but mutiple brands and models?
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
I think this is the 5th or so forum I've read this on. We got it, you had a bad experiance with Kahr. Things happen. No company, NEVER EVER EVER EVER made any products 100% ALL THE TIME EVERY TIME. Its impossible. Before I sold my CW9 it ran flawlessly with thousands of different rounds including, wolf, Blazer, Iranian, +p and +p+. Never had one hiccup and never saw a cleaning brush or the slightes bit of oil. My friend has the smaller version and its been problem free.
I agree this is getting old. I have owned 3 Kahr's and all have been perfect. This guy shot reloads through the gun and then told Kahr CS about it. Kahr specifically states that shooting reloads voids the warranty. Now he is on a one man crusade because he screwed up. Read your warranty and quit whining.
By the way, thank you Kahr for the $50,000 contribution to The Wounded Warrior Project that I just read about.

Last edited by franco45; 05-31-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:36 PM
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Not beating anyone down for having problems with their Kahr, but I personally have had zero issues with my CM9 since break-in (first 200 rounds as Kahr recommends). I had a couple FTFeeds in the first 50 I put through it, but smooth sailing since. I love that little gun.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:47 PM
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People do it all the time to Taurus and nobody seems to mind.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:08 PM
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I can't think of any brand that I haven't heard someone gripe about at some time or another. Gets tiresome after a while.

My MK9 Elite is a beautiful piece of metalwork, and has worked perfectly. I like my Smiths, too. And my Colts.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:19 PM
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I had zero issues from the Kahr's I've owned. I take this stuff with the same grain of salt I do all of the Smith stinks now days posts. I've bought a ton of guns in the last few years, enough to know the exceptional occurrence when I hear it. Whether it be Kahr, S&W, SIG et al.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remat457 View Post
Do your homework - Kahr owns a few well known companies including AO. What I am wondering is how all of these recoil spring guides are breaking? One gun maybe or even a problem with a model, but mutiple brands and models?
Come over to the Thompson forum, Kahr gets beat up there on a regular basis from guns made yesterday to ones made years ago.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:35 PM
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People do it all the time to Taurus and nobody seems to mind.
I have fired quite a few Taurus the PT 92 is a fav of mine

When someone starts ripping on Taurus politly ask them which one they had a problem with usually it goes
Well my aunts, grandmothers, brothers, hair dresser had one that....

I did have a problem with a 92 sent it in Tuesday and got it back 9 days later that Thursday with a new slide (They found a crack)

They dont hold value thats the worst thing about them unless you a buyer of course!

They are not a Smith but sometimes a Chevy will get the job done.

Hank
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:12 AM
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I can't speak to Kahr's current QC but I did own a PM45 when they first came out. I had more than one issue with it and to their credit they made it right including a return trip on their dime to polish the feedramp and they wound up replaicing the barrel. Bought a PM9 at the same time as the 45 and it has been flawless, not an issue. So, maybe it's luck of the draw or it could be a sign to steer clear of new products

Hindsight can give us perspective on life in general but more so with guns. During my issues with the PM45 I was ticked, I laid out nearly $600 bucks for a carry gun I had carefully selected and it wouldn't run. So, I understand how the OP feels and if you've never had an issue then good for you. I will say I've never understood the break in period they described going in and thought they were full of it as I have owned more than my share of firearms and they ran right out of the box. Namely, Smith and Wesson, Colts, Aresenal and Glocks.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
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I can't speak to Kahr's current QC but I did own a PM45 when they first came out. I had more than one issue with it and to their credit they made it right including a return trip on their dime to polish the feedramp and they wound up replaicing the barrel. Bought a PM9 at the same time as the 45 and it has been flawless, not an issue. So, maybe it's luck of the draw or it could be a sign to steer clear of new products

Hindsight can give us perspective on life in general but more so with guns. During my issues with the PM45 I was ticked, I laid out nearly $600 bucks for a carry gun I had carefully selected and it wouldn't run. So, I understand how the OP feels and if you've never had an issue then good for you. I will say I've never understood the break in period they described going in and thought they were full of it as I have owned more than my share of firearms and they ran right out of the box. Namely, Smith and Wesson, Colts, Aresenal and Glocks.
Kahrs have super-tight tolerances for such small guns. You would not want one that was "Glock loose" (this is coming from a Glock owner). Guns with tight tolerences have to be slicked up, and that takes a good bit of shooting before becoming reliable, and they are usually very accurate, especially for the diminuitive size. 1911's have this trouble a lot, but folks that buy them understand they need that break-in period and often some smith work before they are just right. Same reason newer cars need to be broken in the first 5,000 miles unlike the old 8 bangers of yesteryear.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:06 PM
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I have owned several Kahr pistols, and I didn't have any problems with mine...but I don't own them now for two reasons:

1) I didn't like the recommend "prep work" to make them run right, instead of just taking them out of the box, cleaning them, and firing them.

2) Kahr no longer offers a lifetime warranty; it is now 5 years.

I don't want to own guns made by a company that doesn't have enough faith in their own product to offer a lifetime warranty. The one exception: Ruger doesn't have a stated warranty, but they have a well-documented history of taking care of their customers regardless of any stated warranty.

I have never had to make modifications to my S&W magazines so they will work. I have never had to fire hundreds of rounds through my S&Ws before they are considered reliable by the company. (Might as well buy a Kimber instead... )

I'm glad if Kahr owners like and enjoy their guns...I would hope that for everyone, regardless of brand. I am just stating my reasons and preferences. YMMV
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:10 AM
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I worked in a gun shop for several years. I heard all the complaints. All gun manufacturers send out guns once in a while that have problems. I had a customer who bought the CW45 when they first came out and it had to be sent back with a major issue. Kahr fixed it and returned it promptly. Other folks had more minor issues with Kahr subcompacts, but they were always happy when Kahr returned them, except for one customer who said he didn't trust the gun any more. I think that he actually had buyer's remorse. The Thompson .45 carbines have always been full of issues. I haven't worked in a gun shop for several years now, so I don't know how customer service compares today. I for one, think the Kahr's look neat and compact, but I wouldn't lay down money for one based on my past experience, even though I know that the satisfied Kahr owners outnumber the ones who had problems. It just seemed like there were more problems than with other brands.
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Old 06-03-2012, 11:52 PM
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I bought an M&P 9C for a CWP course, and love the gun. It shot/shoots well, trigger pull is good considering the kind of gun it is (I'd always shot target guns like my Browning Medalist, Hi-Standard Trophy, Colt Gold Cup). Real happy with it. But while it conceals well under a jacket, was no good, for me, for concealment under a shirt.

So I bought a Ruger LCR. It wants to hurt me with +P rounds, and obviously doesn't shoot as well, but concealed a bit better.

So I tried a Kahr PM9. Conceals very nicely. The hammer pull seemed heavy, and seemed to go on forever, but I liked everything else, so got it anyhow. I LOVE it! VERY surprisingly, I shoot it more accurately than I do the 9C (and much more accurately than the LCR). None of these guns has ever had a mis-feed, mis-fire, mis-anything, so I feel great with them for concealed carry. And while I love my 9C, I WILL NOT be giving up the Kahr any time soon.

I recommend both whenever I see someone shopping for them, but my favorite is still the Kahr.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:24 AM
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I'm on my seventh or eighth Kahr now. Bought every one of them new. Only had one problem and they took care of it.

I fail to see why people complain about this or that manufacturer. If you search the web, there are complaints about all of them.

Nothing is perfect every time and we shouldn't expect it.

Maybe I've been lucky but I've bought more new guns than anyone I know. Sigs, Kahr, Smith, Ruger, Taurus, Dan Wesson, CZ, Beretta and on and on.

The brand that gave me he most trouble was Taurus. But even then less than 5% of the guns I bought gave me problems.

Maybe it's how we approach the problem?
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
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...

I fail to see why people complain about this or that manufacturer. If you search the web, there are complaints about all of them.

...
It's human nature to complain. We get our hopes up in anticipation of a new toy and then our dreams are dashed against the rocks. We also try to warn friends to keep them from similar problems or to punish the wrong-doer thus getting even without severing heads.

In days gone by, complaints were heard around the wood stove at the hardware store where you bought your gun, and passed on at the water cooler. They pretty much stayed in the local area unless your sister-in-law's brother was in town for the holidays then he could relate his mailman's hairdresser's cousins experience...

Now we have the internet with lots and lots of wood-stoves.

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Old 06-04-2012, 11:31 AM
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I have owned just about every brand available at one time or another. Issues do occur with them all eventually. I live 35 miles from Glock, Inc. in Smyrna, GA so I drive guns up there for service and wait on them. For some reason, they treat me like a rich relative. The few issues I had with S&W's were issues caused by previous owners. These were resolved promptly and at reasonable cost. With one exception. I had a few unpleasant exchanges with a lady named Kay or Kate Fredette over Wather P22 magazines. She refused to send me six replacement magazines for my three pistols until I proved I owned three of them. I had to mail her a copy of my sales receipt from Vance's in Ohio.
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