Ya know, I keep reading on how the Gen.4 Glock and certain S&W M&P pistols are developing problems. And how SIG Sauer ain't what it used to be either! Only H&K seems to be making good, reliable NEW poly guns.
And yet here are these old Smith autos, some TDA, some DAO, that guys and gals buy on a whim and find they're reliable, accurate, and don't ding you in the head with brass!
So I'm wondering is it's more to do with the current demand for firearms buy the general public, or just trying to stay one step ahead of the competition that's made the current crop of poly pistols go wonky? Or was there a flaw in the design?
Whatever the case may be, I'm just glad we have good reliable, time tested designs to fall back on! Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

I used to work for a commercial AC manufacturing firm that had a bulletproof reputation. Nothing could stop it. If you get my drift.

Then upper management started cutting corners to reduce costs. Hiring temp workers that could be laid off when orders went down for a week. Extending preventive maintenance schedules by months. Reducing the thickness of sheet metal. Purchasing critical electronics from cheaper and cheaper sources.

The quality started going down, warranty costs increased but the bean counters kept a close eye on the savings vs warranty costs. As long as the changes saved more than the warranty increases it was considered a win.

Maybe this same cost cutting is impacting newer firearms? I do know that when I compare my 1960s vintage Remington .30/06 to today's model I wouldn't trade.

Glenn, I believe you hit the nail on the head, perfectly. Gotta make all those folks with their MBA's useful.

I would state that your sources are flawed.

Most people don't buy multiple models of the same gun. As such, the one they get is supposed to represent the entire brand;which means the one guy who gets the inevitable lemon is going to ensure the entire world knows about it on his favorite forum of choice.Meanwhile the thousands of people shooting and carrying their guns without issue don't say anything for lack of awareness of gun forums.Many a person is probably carrying a Glock gen 4 or an S&W Sigma completely unaware of their guns' bad reps on the internet.

For what its worth, the S&W 3rd Gens are considered "obsolete junk" by the tactical kids these days;search long enough and you'll find people have bad things to say about anything made.

Glock added that dual recoil spring assembly to their Gen 4 pistols. There was a dual spring on the market (Like H&K) that fit several different semi-auto pistols. My guess is Glock was trying to speed up the cycle rate by "catching" the slide faster and sending it back. They let it out on the market before they had the bugs worked out. Additionally, "limp-wristing" the pistol almost insured a fail to extract or eject properly. I used one of the compound after-market springs, and I could feel it catch the slide - it felt very strange. I won't be buying any Gen 4 Glock 20s anytime soon.

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Ralph J.

True, those of us that buy a product that we perceive as a lemon, are probably the most vocal. My short time in sales, and long time in life, lead me to believe Glenn is correct. It is my experience, that after a business becomes successful, it needs any individual customer less and less. Some may choose to capitalize on this by adopting the business model Glenn described. Others may still value each customer and achieve greater profits by instituting more efficient policies and procedures that do not lower the quality of the product or service. This is the tougher route. Each consumer gets to decide what kind of outfit they are dealing with.

BTW, a neighbor just bought a new Gen. 4 Glock 17. We went out to the range so he could shoot it for the first time. No malfunctions and he couldn't be happier with it. Proves nothing, but I was glad to see it worked reliably, as I have no doubt, the vast majority do. And no, you won't likely hear a positive Gen. 4 report from him on the internet...


ps, I've been a Glock armorer since 1991 and have attended I don't know how many recertification classes. I confess that I still don't understand what was wrong with the simple old recoil spring assy. in the full sized guns. I never saw the old assemblies break or fail or cause any problems at all.

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NRA Life, COTEP 640